PG Utah: Great Third Quarter!

[MuckyFingers]

The Snider point is a good one. Besides Stotts, what other unemployed veteran coaches are out there who would (should) coach more than just the remainder of the year?

[bucksfansince88]

Doc and Stotts might be best move for the rest of this year. dial them up Horst, we know you're in here lurking

[Baddy Chuck]

rebounding is a huge part of defense.

You keep saying this and it doesn't get any truer. Is it a part, sure, but calling it a "huge part of defense" is absolutely fictional. The leading rebounder in the entire league right now is a terrible overall defender. Andre Drummond has come back and proven he's still maybe the best rebounder in the league after being benched for years for being a terrible defender. Julius Randle, Nikola Vucevic, Christian Wood, go back to guys like Enes Kanter, Kenneth Faried, Montrezl Harrell, David Lee, the list goes on and on. You can be absolutely great at rebounding the ball and not have any positive defensive impact.

Individually yes. But I would assume team rebounding rate usually has a correlation to good D though.

Sure if you stop the team from putting the ball in the hoop your defense is usually better. If you're a reason why they're putting the ball in the hoop and collecting the routine NBA rebounds then well, yeah.

[DingleJerry]

You keep saying this and it doesn't get any truer. Is it a part, sure, but calling it a "huge part of defense" is absolutely fictional. The leading rebounder in the entire league right now is a terrible overall defender. Andre Drummond has come back and proven he's still maybe the best rebounder in the league after being benched for years for being a terrible defender. Julius Randle, Nikola Vucevic, Christian Wood, go back to guys like Enes Kanter, Kenneth Faried, Montrezl Harrell, David Lee, the list goes on and on. You can be absolutely great at rebounding the ball and not have any positive defensive impact.

Individually yes. But I would assume team rebounding rate usually has a correlation to good D though.

Sure if you stop the team from putting the ball in the hoop your defense is usually better.

I'd probably base it more of rate or % rather than total rebounds. Basically just allowing 3-5 less O rebounds and thus shots per game adds up to a few points per game, which matters. I used the word rate and didn't think that needed to be clarified much.

But yea total would still be tied too but like you said it gets convoluted due to how many missed shots happen.

[sidney lanier]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

[FrieAaron]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

This would make sense if the Bucks weren't 25th in the league in opponents' points in the paint. We're also 26th in opponents' second chance points.

[mediocrityrules]

So let's take stock of where our team is right now in terms of some numbers. As you can see, it makes for some bleak reading on defense, while our offense is better (as we well know): -

Defense
Oppt points - 119.9 (24th), last year 113.9 (14th)
Oppt Average Biggest Lead - 11.2 (14th), last year 10.3 (4th)
Oppt shooting % - 47.2% (16th), last year 45.9% (2nd)
Oppt 2pt shooting % - 55.0% (17th), last year 51.7% (2nd)
Oppt 3pt shooting % - 33.7% (3rd), last year 36.0% (16th) - a stat we have actually improved in (overall volume also lower)
Oppt points in the paint - 53.5 (25th), last year 49.4 (12th)
Oppt Fast Break ppg - 15.0 (22nd), last year 13.1 (9th)
Oppt Offensive rebounding per game - 11.4 (26th), last year 10.5 (18th)
Defensive Efficiency - 1.131 (21st), last year 1.090 (4th)

Steals per game - 6.6 (28th), last year 6.4 (27th) - and Grief wanted this to be a strength??

Offense
PPG - 124.1 (2nd), last year 117.0 (6th)
Shooting % - 49.8% (3rd), last year 47.3% (18th)
2pt shooting % - 58.5% (2nd), last year 55.7% (11th)
3pt shooting % - 37.9% (7th), last year 36.9% (9th)
Points in Paint - 50.5 (16th), last year 46.0 (24th)
Fast Break ppg - 13.2 (20th), last year 13.1 (19th)
Offensive Rebounding per game - 9.6 (25th), last year 11.1 (11th)
Offensive Efficiency - 1.171 (3rd), last year 1.120 (8th)

[randy84]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

Did he mention having Lopez guard the 3 pt line?

[MiltownHawkeye]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

That's weird, coaches are famously critical of other coaches especially ones who they vouched for before the season.

[randy84]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

Yeah, the drop defense really hurt the Bucks when Bud was coach.

[humanrefutation]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

Sam Mitchell is not watching this Bucks team if that is his conclusion.

[Baddy Chuck]

The Bucks defense (obviously 4 games so sample size yada yada) was worse than it's been since the change.

[paulpressey25]

Sam Mitchell had an interesting take on the Bucks' defensive woes on NBA Radio just now. He faults Griffin for caving to the players' preference for the drop defense, noting (correctly) that guards roast it with elbow jumpers and floaters while the bigs stand there helpless. His advice for Bucks players: let Adrian Griffin coach this team.

That would be great, except that using the Bud base defense the past five years has resulted in top five defenses. We've got the ultimate back line personnel to play it.

[Baddy Chuck]

I'd probably base it more of rate or % rather than total rebounds. Basically just allowing 3-5 less O rebounds and thus shots per game adds up to a few points per game, which matters. I used the word rate and didn't think that needed to be clarified much.

But yea total would still be tied too but like you said it gets convoluted due to how many missed shots happen.

I think rate or whatever just shows even further that stopping the ball from going in the hoop impacts it. I mean a team like the Celtics is the best defensive rebounding team per 100 in the league, yet they give up the 5th most offensive rebounds per 100. They're also the best defensive team in the league. You don't even really have to look much further than our very own team who was consistently in the top 3ish defensive rebounding team in the league when they were a top defense and despite largely the same rebounders we've now dropped out of top 10 with our defensive troubles.

[El Pooch Grande]

Are we any closer to Griff getting the boot tonight? Anyone with connections hearing anything?

[paulpressey25]

Are we any closer to Griff getting the boot tonight? Anyone with connections hearing anything?

My sense is that it will take a Boston Massacre this Thursday. Who knows.

[Baddy Chuck]

Are we any closer to Griff getting the boot tonight? Anyone with connections hearing anything?

My sense is that it will take a Boston Massacre this Thursday. Who knows.

I'm waiting for the ultimate chess move by the Celtics, sit a couple of their starters and punt the game to keep Griff on the bench .

[DingleJerry]

I'd probably base it more of rate or % rather than total rebounds. Basically just allowing 3-5 less O rebounds and thus shots per game adds up to a few points per game, which matters. I used the word rate and didn't think that needed to be clarified much.

But yea total would still be tied too but like you said it gets convoluted due to how many missed shots happen.

I think rate or whatever just shows even further that stopping the ball from going in the hoop impacts it. I mean a team like the Celtics is the best defensive rebounding team per 100 in the league, yet they give up the 5th most offensive rebounds per 100. They're also the best defensive team in the league. You don't even really have to look much further than our very own team who was consistently in the top 3ish defensive rebounding team in the league when they were a top defense and despite largely the same rebounders we've now dropped out of top 10 with our defensive troubles.

I mean something on the rate of rebounds per shot. That's what should be the most telling stat, the totals are skewed by attempts. I swear they used to keep something like that.

[BigO]

rebounding is a huge part of defense.

You keep saying this and it doesn't get any truer. Is it a part, sure, but calling it a "huge part of defense" is absolutely fictional. The leading rebounder in the entire league right now is a terrible overall defender. Andre Drummond has come back and proven he's still maybe the best rebounder in the league after being benched for years for being a terrible defender. Julius Randle, Nikola Vucevic, Christian Wood, go back to guys like Enes Kanter, Kenneth Faried, Montrezl Harrell, David Lee, the list goes on and on. You can be absolutely great at rebounding the ball and not have any positive defensive impact.

I've never been with or heard of a coach who didn't emphasize that defensive rebounding is the final part of playing defense. It was something Bud said over and over and is why he put it near the top of his list of principles.

Look, I know you don't value Portis, but denying the role rebounding plays in being a good defense just to refute the value of Portis, is rewriting every defensive principle I've ever heard or seen.

Make your case that Portis is horrible in one on one defense (I don't agree), but coming up with a wacky idea that defensive rebounding isn't the last and critical part of playing defense is an idea that few share.

And by the way, as bad as the Bucks defense has been this season, one reason, among many, that their record is decent, is that they are doing a good job on the defensive boards when the opposition misses.

[Baddy Chuck]

Make your case that Portis is horrible in one on one defense (I don't agree)

12.5% isolation against frequency, very high, shows he's being targeted. 1.25 PPP in those situations, 9th percentile, shows he's been very bad at defending them.

Less so completely individual, but equally as damning. 50% frequency at being attacked at the rim, pretty high. 60% allowed at the rim, pretty terrible.