PG Cavs - Bucks Survive

[SickMother]

Basketball Reference says that the Dame - Beas - Khris - Giannis - Brook lineup has a +16.3 net rating so far this year.

Here's how the Bucks top lineups by minutes played have fared in previous seasons:

22-23: +8.0
Jrue - Grayson - Pat - Giannis - Brook
(With Khris in for Pat they were +12.0)

21-22: +9.4
Jrue - Grayson - Khris - Giannis - Bobby

20-21: +8.2
Jrue - Donte - Khris - Giannis - Brook

19-20: +18.8
Bledsoe - Wes - Khris - Giannis - Brook

18-19: +6.0
Bledsoe - Brogdon - Khris - Giannis - Brook

Considering the dominance of the starting five so far this year, I don't any reason to change it up at this point.

[pifhluk23]

Why does everyone think Jrue would help this team so much? He got hilariously cooked by Jimmy just last postseason, and the Bucks would have still won if they had either run Midds/Brook PnR down the stretch in games 4 and 5, or if they had, you know, one of the best closers in the NBA, Dame, available to them.

People haven't adapted to the fact that Defense isn't nearly as important anymore. Like Legler/JJ were saying you just need to be able to get stops for 4 minutes and be a top 10ish maybe even 15 defense as long as you can turn it on at the right times. For us I still think we need that wing defender otherwise I'm not sure we can get those 4 minutes vs the top teams.

[Bucksmaniac]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

[jimmybones]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

[sidney lanier]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

I knew there was some reason we shouldn't be happy we won on the road against a pretty good team that was hitting shots and had momentum before we bitch-slapped them. Thanks for clarifying; I'll try to wipe the smile off my face.

Can you also explain why being 11-2 in December is a bad thing? Thanks.

[German Athens]

After yesterday’s games, Giannis is now third in EPM just a little ahead of Jokic.

[Bucksmaniac]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

I knew there was some reason we shouldn't be happy we won on the road against a pretty good team that was hitting shots and had momentum before we bitch-slapped them. Thanks for clarifying; I'll try to wipe the smile off my face.

Can you also explain why being 11-2 in December is a bad thing? Thanks.

Definitely not a bad thing by itself. Fool’s gold if our underlying issues aren’t addressed due to the great results? Possibly. I’m reading a book right now called ‘Atomic Habits’ and this is very relevant, but inversely. Focus is on the process instead of results. In this case, you could argue we could get too focused on the positive results that we don’t alter our process and it bites us in the end.

[PG Graveyard]

Do we think we ran enough Dame/Giannis 2 man game to consider this a good win?

[drew881]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

He will still get tons of playing time with Giannis and open threes coming off the bench.

Maybe if we had a more defensive minded sg starter we wouldn’t be losing the first quarter on average. A disrupter to start the game and get in a star player’s head would be great.

[Ayt]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

You could come up with lineups with him on the floor with Dame, Giannis, Midds, etc. Payne is at only slightly less volume from three, and he barely plays with Dame for example.

This isn't hockey with full line changes. In the end, he also mostly just defends and shoots open jumpers. A major defensive upgrade could be huge, even if they player shoots slightly worse than Beasley.

[sidney lanier]

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

I knew there was some reason we shouldn't be happy we won on the road against a pretty good team that was hitting shots and had momentum before we bitch-slapped them. Thanks for clarifying; I'll try to wipe the smile off my face.

Can you also explain why being 11-2 in December is a bad thing? Thanks.

Definitely not a bad thing by itself. Fool’s gold if our underlying issues aren’t addressed due to the great results? Possibly. I’m reading a book right now called ‘Atomic Habits’ and this is very relevant, but inversely. Focus is on the process instead of results. In this case, you could argue we could get too focused on the positive results that we don’t alter our process and it bites us in the end.

I see my gentle irony fell flat, but that's a testament to how earnest your pessimism is. Of course process is important, but caring about the final outcome should not vitiate your enjoyment of the steps along the way.

[jimmybones]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

He will still get tons of playing time with Giannis and open threes coming off the bench.

Maybe if we had a more defensive minded sg starter we wouldn’t be losing the first quarter on average. A disrupter to start the game and get in a star player’s head would be great.

I think this sounds great in theory and I'd be all for it but I don't know who this player is that's realistically obtainable. My post is in response to the "start Pat for the defensive upgrade" idea, I'm not feeling that idea. He'd get cooked playing more minutes against starters defensively and wouldn't hit as many of those open threes.

[Milbucks96]

The Beasley to the bench move is not easy to make. I think everybody knows that can’t be our starting lineup come playoff time, but he’s been great so far honestly and that lineup is too good to mess with it. I think it could’ve happened when Beasley was out but he came back knocking down shots and AJJ looked like a 2nd round rookie.

I hope the front office is working hard to figure out that spot, and I hope Beasley keeps playing well while he’s in it.

[Shaffty]

Beasley gets pushed out of the Starting lineup by a trade and no other way

[tedbrogen]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

This. They should have been down nine at the half after the awful Midds transition pass that led to a wide open Cavs three, but they were gifted a foul call on a Giannis drive so it was only 7. Then the offense turned it in in the third and casually dropped 40…

[tedbrogen]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from three and JA shoot his normal average from two, Bucks still win. Or if Cavs shoot an average pct from three and Giannis doesn’t miss all those dunks/layups in the first half, Bucks still win.

We can do this what if all day. The difference in the game was the Bucks turning it on in the third to put up 40.

[MVP2110]

Giannis misses dunk, Allen makes jumpshots off the board, defense looks terrible, offense looks shaky, turnovers leading to open layups and the Bucks down by double digits.

Yeah we have no chance tonight onto the next one...

10 minutes later....

Bucks lead by 15 points...

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from 3 they win this by double digits, I know you’re one of the rosy posters on here but it’s fair to address concerns down the road for this team given they seem to be getting off the hook in the regular season. Somewhat of a continuation of last season in that sense, their Net Rating/Margin of Victory was underwhelming considering they had the best record in the league and then they get exposed in the Playoffs. Worried about a similar fate but an inverse type of team with great offense and questionable at best defense.

If the Cavs shoot an average pct from three and JA shoot his normal average from two, Bucks still win. Or if Cavs shoot an average pct from three and Giannis doesn’t miss all those dunks/layups in the first half, Bucks still win.

We can do this what if all day. The difference in the game was the Bucks turning it on in the third to put up 40.

Normalized shooting is a thing and is usually a better predictor of games. If you normalized last night's shooting performances then the Bucks lose pretty handidly. We saw this a couple week ago, the Bucks had a massive shooting advantage against the Knicks on Dec 23 but on Xmas shooting was basically even and the Bucks lost handidly. Shooting Variance is a very real thing that should be accounted for when judging a game

[yannisk]

Pat is not a good defender himself, he is marginally better than Beasley and he won't be as efficient.

Maybe the scheme is not the best but the roster is full with bellow average defensive players. Who are the good defenders?

Giannis, Brook was a dpoy candidate but in a way is a special player he is good under the basket not good anywhere else

Crowder is maybe above average

AJJ maybe becomes good in future, he has the tools but at the moment is not ready

Marjon is a disappointment

Lillard, Beasley, Payne, AJ, Middleton, Portis are all bad in various degrees

So we have two defenders who are good under the basket but because of the scheme and the backcourt they get exposed as well. We went from backcourts with Jrue, Bledsoe, Hill, Brogdon, DDV, Wes, Carter, young Middleton to the softest backcourt possible.

We have more than enough firepower, we have to trade some of it for players with energy, hustle and defensive ability. Maybe we will find someone from buyouts.

[tedbrogen]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

This. He’s an absolute killer on those corner threes and even if the opponent closes out in time, he side steps it and buries it anyways.

Also, he’s giving by far the most effort on D for the starters and is nowhere near the most abused guy in the starting lineup.

[tedbrogen]

Moving Beasley to the bench completely negates his best trait, hitting these wide open threes he's getting due to the enormous gravity of Giannis and Dame's existence.

He will still get tons of playing time with Giannis and open threes coming off the bench.

Maybe if we had a more defensive minded sg starter we wouldn’t be losing the first quarter on average. A disrupter to start the game and get in a star player’s head would be great.

They’re losing the first quarter because it’s when they are playing everyone furthest out on D and the Bucks are clearly not giving max effort on D.

That’s not going to change during the regular season outside of games they have circled on their calendar.

For better or worse, they know their offense can annihilate most teams and the regular season is too much of a grind to go all out for 48 minutes every game.