RealGM

midranger wrote:It's absolutely amazing how many of the "fishiest" NBA playoff games Dick Bavetta has been a part of.

And I agree PP, Bavetta will retire this summer with a few million wired to an offshore account.

Bill Simmons wrote about that in 2002 already, and linked to that story again today. It's here, near the bottom ("what was the most disturbing subplot of the playoffs?").

Just peeked into this thread for the first time. I'm blown away. Some of the best work I've ever seen on any board. Pretty much supports what many of us suspected. Playoff games, draft lottery...to Stern's design.

Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

bplus wrote:Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

I actually started to write something like this in M a while back. I'll post something if/when I complete it.

THE DINJ wrote:

bplus wrote:Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

I actually started to write something like this in M a while back. I'll post something if/when I complete it.

My friend's been trying to get me into M.. or.. R.. I forget which is which. Probably the perfect language for this if you know it well. Look forward to seeing what you end up with...

What might also help your cause is to know of those free throw discrepencies, what official made the call. Bavetta may have been the crew chief but cannot and does not exert that much power over the other two officials who may have had better veiws in which they called the fouls. Stats can be made to show any official you want was biased

bplus wrote:Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

I considered writing some clumsy script to do it and letting it run overnight and while I'm at work because I'm too lazy to write a complicated program for it. I was thinking of doing a simple python or autoIT script. I haven't been home much at night after work the past few nights so I haven't been able to touch it yet.

I think there is a spot on that site that you can download the data in a huge file? That might help instead of going through every single page.

What are you guys thinking about writing something in and how do you plan to implement it? I am open to ideas as well.

EDIT: Didn't see that you want to put it into an SQL database. We might have to exchange e-mails on this bplus because I am currently trying to teach myself some PHP/SQL at this very moment.

CharlosVllnueva wrote:

bplus wrote:Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

I considered writing some clumsy script to do it and letting it run overnight and while I'm at work because I'm too lazy to write a complicated program for it. I was thinking of doing a simple python or autoIT script. I haven't been home much at night after work the past few nights so I haven't been able to touch it yet.

I think there is a spot on that site that you can download the data in a huge file? That might help instead of going through every single page.

What are you guys thinking about writing something in and how do you plan to implement it? I am open to ideas as well.

EDIT: Didn't see that you want to put it into an SQL database. We might have to exchange e-mails on this bplus because I am currently trying to teach myself some PHP/SQL at this very moment.

I don't seem to have access to private messaging, maybe it's because of my low post count.. not sure. If you do have access, shoot me your email address. I'll start looking at the data and figure out the tables we'll need. I won't really be around until Sunday or Monday due to other commitments, but I'll definitely be working on this in the near future.

You can download the data from http://www.databasebasketball.com/stats_download.htm

It's just a list of text files that is pipe-delimited (the "|"). Pretty easy to parse in whatever language you're good with. At any rate, once I have something to share, I'll definitely send the info if you PM me your email or IM info. If you get started independently and have any problems w/ PHP I might be able to help with just ask.

Hmm, we could even start a separate thread for this in case anyone else wants to jump on board.

bplus wrote:

CharlosVllnueva wrote:

bplus wrote:Is anyone else a programmer, who would be interested in parsing the data from databasebasketball.com into an SQL database & seeing what we could set up for stats analysis? Might be kind of interesting what we could generatte once the files where all related in a database.

I'm best with PHP & MySQL but would discuss whatever..

I considered writing some clumsy script to do it and letting it run overnight and while I'm at work because I'm too lazy to write a complicated program for it. I was thinking of doing a simple python or autoIT script. I haven't been home much at night after work the past few nights so I haven't been able to touch it yet.

I think there is a spot on that site that you can download the data in a huge file? That might help instead of going through every single page.

What are you guys thinking about writing something in and how do you plan to implement it? I am open to ideas as well.

EDIT: Didn't see that you want to put it into an SQL database. We might have to exchange e-mails on this bplus because I am currently trying to teach myself some PHP/SQL at this very moment.

I don't seem to have access to private messaging, maybe it's because of my low post count.. not sure. If you do have access, shoot me your email address. I'll start looking at the data and figure out the tables we'll need. I won't really be around until Sunday or Monday due to other commitments, but I'll definitely be working on this in the near future.

You can download the data from http://www.databasebasketball.com/stats_download.htm

It's just a list of text files that is pipe-delimited (the "|"). Pretty easy to parse in whatever language you're good with. At any rate, once I have something to share, I'll definitely send the info if you PM me your email or IM info. If you get started independently and have any problems w/ PHP I might be able to help with just ask.

Hmm, we could even start a separate thread for this in case anyone else wants to jump on board.

I'm down for that.

I was thinking of writing something that would parse the game logs themselves, so we could run searches on things like "What's Michael Redd's FT% in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter."

But that will be a little more involved.

Bumping this because Homer just mentioned realgm and this thread. He's supposed to be talking about it in an upcoming segment. He mentioned how Charley Rosen has loathed Bavetta for a long time and how it all makes sense now.

ClassicJack wrote:Bumping this because Homer just mentioned realgm and this thread. He's supposed to be talking about it in an upcoming segment. He mentioned how Charley Rosen has loathed Bavetta for a long time and how it all makes sense now.

Did he end up talking about this thread?

Yes he did talk about this thread. I only heard about 5 minutes of it, and didn't recognize who his guest was that he was discussing it with. Homer cited the Bucks 0-7 record in 2000-01 under Bavetta and the overall dismal record that doesn't match up with our record with other refs.

The discussion revolved around how Stern isn't stupid enough to actually order refs to fix games but rather how there are a few "company men" refs, with Bavetta being the kingpin, who understand what is "good for the league" and will call games along those lines.

I'm pretty much in agreement with that.

Rosen several times that he doesn't like Bavetta.. also mentioned the race that Bavetta ran against Barkley was a joke. One other topic he hit on was that he feels that refs often hold grudges, and that was also a reason why refs were against certain teams or certain players in particular. He mentioned a story about how it went back all the way to the ABA games.. when refs used to hang out with players and chase after the same women... and how that was one way that grudges started. I don't remember all the examples, but he pointed out how there was one ref that absolutely hated Rick Barry.

Maybe Bavetta didn't like the players.. one or all of them. Maybe he's a diehard Republican and he hates Herb.

I do think that the grudges explanation makes a lot of sense.. maybe it works in conjunction with refs wanting to make Stern happy. Some have suggested that refs not be employed by the NBA, and maybe rather just be independent contractors of some sort. If Stern is their boss, and they know that Stern will be happy if they help a big market team win, does he really have to actually give a mandate?

OK.. say the NBA gave funding to company X to provide refs to the NBA games. Company X hires, trains, and monitors the refs. Refs get paid based on job performance, as employees at company X.
Management at company X uses footage of games, evaluations by players and coaches and statistical analysis (similar to the stats in this thread) to ensure the competency of the ref and the lack of bias. Refs are judged on their performance, and not by how happy they make Stern. The NBA would obviously have to have power over the rules, but that's where the control would end. I know it's not a perfect concept, but there has to be something better out there than having them be puppets of the commish.

All I know is that I've felt for years that the Bucks have been getting hosed. I'm a fan of the Brewers, Packers, Marquette, Wisconsin, UWM, etc. .. and I don't feel the officiating/umpiring/reffing is a negative factor to any of their success. Bad calls are made, and that is to be expected.. but we shouldn't have to play 5 against 8 every night.

You guys lost me with all that SQL talk. If someone could explain to an idiot how all that works and how it would expediate the process of doing research that would be great.

Maybe someone can explain this to me...

If you ever bring up the fact that the Bucks were screwed in the 2001 ECF vs Philly and site the crazy FT differential, people will quickly point out that the Bucks were a jumpshooting team. All they do is shoot jumpers. Your not going to get to the line when all you do is shoot jumpers and dont drive inside. The media created the perception that the Bucks were a soft team and shot jumpers and as we all know perception is reality.

SO givin the fact that the Bucks are soft and only shoot jumpers and dont go inside can anyone tell me why they shot more free throws in the first round of the 2001 playoffs than any other team? Were they a dominate inside team just for that round but then they decided to pull a 180 and go a complete other direction in the East Finals? They averaged 37.5 free throws a game in the 4 games vs Orlando. 150 total free throws shot. In the 7 games vs Philly the Bucks only shot 120 free throws (by the way thats the all time NBA record for fewest free throws shot in a 7 game series). Thats only 17.1 free throws a game. So our free throws per game went from 37.5 in the ORL series down to 17.1 in the Phl series. And in the series vs CHR we shot 156 free throws (22.2 a game). So the next time someone says the Bucks were only a jumpshooting team and thats why they got no calls ask them to explain the below chart.

Heres a chart of the FTs for each team in the 1st round of the 2001 Playoffs:

TEAM - TOTAL FTS - GAMES - FT PER GAME

BUCKS - 150 - 4 - 37.5
CHR - 102 - 3 - 34
SAC - 120 - 4 - 30
DAL - 143 - 5 - 28.6
LAL - 86 - 3 - 28.6
PHL - 113 - 4 - 28.3
POR - 78 - 3 - 26
UTA - 129 - 5 - 25.8
TOR - 126 - 5 - 25.2
ORL - 98 - 4 - 24.5
NY - 117 - 5 - 23.4
PHX - 91 - 4 - 22.8
MIA - 58 - 3 - 19.3
IND - 75 - 4 - 18.8

Im currently researching all NBA playoff games from 1998-2008. Ill be sure to break everything down and make a post when im done.

Another winning point. I had no clue we were -20 in FT shooting v. Philly when compared to Charlotte.

Fantastic thread by the OP...I'm convinced (not that I needed any convincing...Bavetta has **** over my Celtics for years, too!)

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Fantastic thread by the OP...I'm convinced (not that I needed any convincing...Bavetta has **** over my Celtics for years, too!)

SCASSELL is perhaps my favorite conspiracy theorist ever. Its not just that I am a homer but wow he brings amazing and crazy stats that are somehow record stats every time he posts. The more I read his posts, the more I think the league tries to fix games and anybody who honestly and objectively reads his posts and doesn't think the same has IMO the blinders on. All anyone has to do is watch the playoffs every year and see how the stars get every foul pretty much and watch a regular season game and watch those same said fouls not get called for the scrubs of the NBA and it leaves one to wonder. Now whats weird is I think the stars should get some "star calls" however I think the rate at which they get them is outlandish most times in the playoffs.

I really would like to see some bucks stats in games reffed by Violet Palmer. I'm willing to bet they would be terrible.