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straight up we need Bud or somebody like him to load manage the roster, the issue is we use to finish games off before even the 4th quarter now the defense gets pushed by everybody no matter how super human Giannis is on offense. You can't win with **** no D guards, Steph Curry is a)way better defender and b)literally the GOAT shooter Dame can't hold his jock.

the people running this team aren't going to walk assbackwards into another championship again, you go until the wheels go off with Giannis. also **** Horst, promote Doc to team president, get another coach thats the dream

Mtsportsfan wrote:

pifhluk23 wrote:

BigO wrote:The one criticism that I find valid of Giannis and the coaching staff now and under Bud is that he hasn't developed a repertoire as a back to or close to the basket player. His almost total dependence on attacking the basket is causing all the wear and tear on him.

Giannis is not getting physically worn down because of his defense. It's his constant acrobatic plays on offense. Jokic and Embiid have old man games and Giannis needs to develop that, while still utilizing his attack game when needed (hint: the playoffs).

That's one if not the reason to move on from him right now while getting max value. We could be set up for a decade with young guys and picks if we blow it up now instead of praying duct tape holds together our geriatric roster. It's crazy to me that people on this board (who are usually well ahead of regular fans) aren't willing to have the blow it up discussion. He'll be 30 next year, Dame 34, Brook 37 and Khris has the body of a 40 year old. It's also a lot less stressful watching a young team with no expectations.

If we run it back with minor improvements which is the most likely case then we need to be like Miami during the regular season. Rest everyone all the time and sneak into the playoffs even if it means being in the play in tournament.

Maybe, hate the idea of trading Giannis , but its not such a far fetched idea as of late. Just don't trust Horst to use the picks .

you acquire young starters with upside and enough picks and salry space to target another point of the spear type like brunson has been for the knicks. you build a team with 3 and d and athletic bigs... salary space again.... a warchest of picks who cares if theyre ours or not....and you do that so we can compete again with all the teams that have caught or passed us.

this rat **** season ending in walking boots again really makes the discussion very interesting if not more relevent then trying to glue these humpty dumptys back together again. proposals that include hardly playing all the guys all season so they arent **** for 20-25 games each spring is what the completely ridiculous suggestion is. as if even if they all went into the playoffs healthy we havent seen year after year they break down round one anyway. every time these fools play hard they get hurt and its the playoffs when its been the most likely. and not one of them..... ALL of them

FrieAaron wrote:

ShootingtheJ wrote:

James1980 wrote:
He's injury prone, my guy

He plays when it matters.

Do you actually believe this is a thing? That his missing 76 regular season games the last two seasons isn't cause for concern because that didn't happen to coincide with the playoffs? Was he not really that injured when he missed half of the last two seasons? I'm not even saying I want to trade Middleton, but I don't get the logic.

It's part luck and part planning, I think. The fact that he turned his ankle and is playing on it now makes me feel like the Bucks baby him in the regular season, which, if true: I'm totally on board. But that's not necessarily true and it could be heavily luck.

At any rate, my deepest concern with him isn't how easily he gets acute injuries, which seems about like anyone else, but what's going on with that knee they took a bunch of cartilage out of over a decade ago.

soxperry wrote:What a fitting end to a disaster season

Im extremely optimistic for next year though.

Our best players need to be back on that 32 mpg Bud program though. Giannis should not log 38 in any regular season game unless it goes to ot.

Yes. We need lower minutes per game for Giannis and probably Dame and Khris. Without that, we will keep getting injuries.

Giannis is the superstar of the Bucks. Without him, no matter whom we get in a draft, most of us will not see another championship in their active lifespans probably. The precedence being 50 years.

We have to get Bud or a coach like Bud, maybe Atkinson. Someone who can handle star veterans without excessive minutes driving them to the ground. Someone who can the best out of the varied talents that the team’s players have.

We have tried Griff and he was a disaster by trying to put square pegs in a round hole. We have tried Doc who overplayed our veterans especially in the last week of the regular season knowing fully well that they were already injured; I don’t care about seeding——- without our big 3, it doesn’t matter which team we play among the contenders, we would lose the series. Doc himself admitted that he should have pulled Giannis out of one of those lat week games, but didn’t. Doc is way better than Griff. But he is not the type of coach who is compatible with the player types we have.

Absolutely Change coach. Delete Jae, Danilo from the roster; get much younger players. Delete Malik; useless in defense. Keep all the other players. Be smart and above all, load manage. Our big 3 will get us deep into the playoffs.

Don’t think Giannis minutes per game have a lot to do with his issues.

His main issue is that he’s a seven foot guy, who is constantly bringing the ball up the court, and doing all sorts of superhuman twists and turns to the basket, at a very high rate of speed. The torque on all those leg joints is starting to take its toll.

paulpressey25 wrote:His main issue is that he’s a seven foot guy, who is constantly bringing the ball up the court, and doing all sorts of superhuman twists and turns to the basket, at a very high rate of speed. The torque on all those leg joints is starting to take its toll.

Giannis developing few, if any skills since 2019 has been one of the biggest frustrations for me. The running, jumping and twisting into the paint offense just doesn't work in the playoffs.

Haven't had time to ever go back and watch the 2021 run but at the time I thought Giannis played a much more in control style in the finals, mainly due to his limited health. If we run it back he needs to go back to that and let Dame and Khris run the offense. He can still average 28-30 playing off ball and hopefully invest more energy in regaining his defensive dominance.

I'm more concerned with games played than minutes per game. Play Giannis, Dame, and Middleton as few games as possible where we can still earn a top 6 seed. If that means 40 games, then great. Forget about regular season awards. Every year we go into the postseason with series-alternating injuries. I'm tired of thinking "what if we were healthy" at the end of every season.

Giannis has literally always played amazing offensively in damn near every playoff series since 2019. What is this narrative?

Giannis scores in a variety ways. Yeah, we'd all like jump hooks and midrange consistency but the guy literally always produces.

fansinceforever wrote:Giannis has literally always played amazing offensively in damn near every playoff series since 2019. What is this narrative?

Giannis scores in a variety ways. Yeah, we'd all like jump hooks and midrange consistency but the guy literally always produces.

Yes but he's been injured 4/5 playoffs and the clock ticks fast after 30 for guys who rely only on athleticism. This off season is peak trade value, all downhill from here imo.

fansinceforever wrote:Yeah, exactly. Build a roster that doesn't require him to play 35+ mins a night and expend so much energy constantly bailing out his teammates on defense. Do that and i'd bet he'd be fine.

I don’t disagree but we’ve built a handful of those rosters and when we got deep in the playoffs, we didn’t have enough top end talent to help him out when teams threw all five players at him.

FlagsFlyForever wrote:I'm more concerned with games played than minutes per game. Play Giannis, Dame, and Middleton as few games as possible where we can still earn a top 6 seed. If that means 40 games, then great. Forget about regular season awards. Every year we go into the postseason with series-alternating injuries. I'm tired of thinking "what if we were healthy" at the end of every season.

Yep. Gotta have the Miami approach.

pifhluk23 wrote:

fansinceforever wrote:Giannis has literally always played amazing offensively in damn near every playoff series since 2019. What is this narrative?

Giannis scores in a variety ways. Yeah, we'd all like jump hooks and midrange consistency but the guy literally always produces.

Yes but he's been injured 4/5 playoffs and the clock ticks fast after 30 for guys who rely only on athleticism. This off season is peak trade value, all downhill from here imo.

Now that we’ve got a longer timeline, this is concerning. On one hand, he generally walks away from plays that lesser guys would need a month to recover. On the other hand, he’s now missed playoff games in 20, 21, 23 and 24.

Forget a series. We have not won a single playoff game with Giannis since 2022. Wild.

Can we still generate and use TPE’s in our cap situation?

Kinda wondering if we moved off of Brook and Bobby, if we could generate a TPE to bring in bball Paul as our backup big behind Giannis, or situational starter to go a little bigger alongside Giannis.

fansinceforever wrote:Giannis has literally always played amazing offensively in damn near every playoff series since 2019. What is this narrative?

Giannis scores in a variety ways. Yeah, we'd all like jump hooks and midrange consistency but the guy literally always produces.

My point wasn't that he hasn't played amazingly. Heck, I picked them to win the whole thing if they had a healthy roster.

This is about maximizing his career. I want Giannis to attack the basket, but not as much during the regular season.

And i disagree that he doesn't have touch around the basket. He can't shoot like Embiid or Jokic, but he isn't bad and could be much better if it was a major emphasis from the GM to the Coach and organization.

Giannis is at a crossroads physically. Adapt, especially during the regular season or risk this happening again and again.

Bottom line, this is less about minutes played and more about playing style during irrelevant games.

In the post game thread I posted Horst has his work cut out for him, but how safe is his job? Guessing he is back, but he would be the last fall guy. No way they’re doing anything with Doc.

Unless he requests a trade, I think they run back Giannis/Dame. I think there is a chance Middleton or Lopez are moved if find a partner. They’re going to have to free up some money. Portis may be on the block too. I just don’t see anyone taking Pat C who is essentially 2Y/18M+.

paulpressey25 wrote:Don’t think Giannis minutes per game have a lot to do with his issues.

His main issue is that he’s a seven foot guy, who is constantly bringing the ball up the court, and doing all sorts of superhuman twists and turns to the basket, at a very high rate of speed. The torque on all those leg joints is starting to take its toll.

Even if he had more of a big man's game, injuries with tall dudes go hand in hand. Spurs too, will have issues with wemby.

Thunder Muscle wrote:In the post game thread I posted Horst has his work cut out for him, but how safe is his job? Guessing he is back, but he would be the last fall guy. No way they’re doing anything with Doc.

Unless he requests a trade, I think they run back Giannis/Dame. I think there is a chance Middleton or Lopez are moved if find a partner. They’re going to have to free up some money. Portis may be on the block too. I just don’t see anyone taking Pat C who is essentially 2Y/18M+.

Pat is the salary filler in a blockbuster.

Or he’s the salary filler along with our #1 for a different role player on draft night.

ColeWorld23 wrote:

FlagsFlyForever wrote:I'm more concerned with games played than minutes per game. Play Giannis, Dame, and Middleton as few games as possible where we can still earn a top 6 seed. If that means 40 games, then great. Forget about regular season awards. Every year we go into the postseason with series-alternating injuries. I'm tired of thinking "what if we were healthy" at the end of every season.

Yep. Gotta have the Miami approach.

Was just thinking this the other day

Coach Carter wrote:

ColeWorld23 wrote:

FlagsFlyForever wrote:I'm more concerned with games played than minutes per game. Play Giannis, Dame, and Middleton as few games as possible where we can still earn a top 6 seed. If that means 40 games, then great. Forget about regular season awards. Every year we go into the postseason with series-alternating injuries. I'm tired of thinking "what if we were healthy" at the end of every season.

Yep. Gotta have the Miami approach.

Was just thinking this the other day

I hate to be the one to tell you guys this, their star is out right now too.