PG Cavs: Bucks Run out of gas (in the first minute)

[Daver]

Yeah, I looked earlier and throughout Dame's tenure in DRTG placement they were all over the place, top and bottom of the league. I didn't want to spend that much time digging into the why of each season but clearly it's possible to have a top 10 defense with Dame on the roster, so I'll just take Epi's word for it. And I don't think any of us are even expecting top 10. Somewhere in the mid-teens would be nice.

Exactly. Mid teens without the just comical WTF aspects and disorganization would be good enough with what should be a top 3ish offense to give you a legit shot in the playoffs. Just to have some basic fundamental principals and consistency of some kind, even if the personnel does limit its ceiling. At least make the other team earn it.

Also, Buds 1 seed best team in ATL won two rounds and made the ECF only to lose to peak LBJ. That's not crapping the bed at all. Best record in the league with that no superstar roster, made the final four to lose to peak LBJ. That team did it all it could. To me the by far biggest blemish was blowing the 2-0 Toronto series, and its not even close. Still kick myself about that one and think its a bit overlooked here as what should've been moment. Bos with no KM and still made game 7, last year with a hobbled Giannis are crap luck. Though of course should've still beat MIA.

Also, since this has mostly been a defensive discussion. Other than last year's 1 series with a hobbled Giannis, Buds Ds in mke were not terrible/crap bedding etc in the playoffs. It was the O that was the problem in the playoffs. Really wish they'd have known they had Dame coming before deciding on Bud. He would've fixed the playoff O problems just on talent alone. Keep the same solid D core fundamentals, but results go a notch or two below due to Dame. I get the team felt it needed a 'shakeup' and coach was the easiest way to do it. In hindsight, the JRue/Dame trade would have been the shakeup.

How can you say the D wasnt tbe problem vs miami ffs the heat averaged what 110 a game or so during the RS n i think thats high.They averaged over 120 a gsme vs the bucks.In fact it was mentioned during that series that miami had more games of 120 or more in that series along thsn during the RS.That series was lost because of the garbage D they playes( agreed O sucked to as did giannis FT shooting game 5)

[FrieAaron]

Obviously the Heat offense killed us in the playoffs, but it should also be obvious that the Heat in the regular season and the heat in the playoffs were on entirely different levels. Our DRTG against them was 119 and Boston's was 116.6. NY's defense faired a good deal better at 112.6

[DingleJerry]

Yeah, I looked earlier and throughout Dame's tenure in DRTG placement they were all over the place, top and bottom of the league. I didn't want to spend that much time digging into the why of each season but clearly it's possible to have a top 10 defense with Dame on the roster, so I'll just take Epi's word for it. And I don't think any of us are even expecting top 10. Somewhere in the mid-teens would be nice.

Exactly. Mid teens without the just comical WTF aspects and disorganization would be good enough with what should be a top 3ish offense to give you a legit shot in the playoffs. Just to have some basic fundamental principals and consistency of some kind, even if the personnel does limit its ceiling. At least make the other team earn it.

Also, Buds 1 seed best team in ATL won two rounds and made the ECF only to lose to peak LBJ. That's not crapping the bed at all. Best record in the league with that no superstar roster, made the final four to lose to peak LBJ. That team did it all it could. To me the by far biggest blemish was blowing the 2-0 Toronto series, and its not even close. Still kick myself about that one and think its a bit overlooked here as what should've been moment. Bos with no KM and still made game 7, last year with a hobbled Giannis are crap luck. Though of course should've still beat MIA.

Also, since this has mostly been a defensive discussion. Other than last year's 1 series with a hobbled Giannis, Buds Ds in mke were not terrible/crap bedding etc in the playoffs. It was the O that was the problem in the playoffs. Really wish they'd have known they had Dame coming before deciding on Bud. He would've fixed the playoff O problems just on talent alone. Keep the same solid D core fundamentals, but results go a notch or two below due to Dame. I get the team felt it needed a 'shakeup' and coach was the easiest way to do it. In hindsight, the JRue/Dame trade would have been the shakeup.

How can you say the D wasnt tbe problem vs miami ffs the heat averaged what 110 a game or so during the RS n i think thats high.They averaged over 120 a gsme vs the bucks.In fact it was mentioned during that series that miami had more games of 120 or more in that series along thsn during the RS.That series was lost because of the garbage D they playes( agreed O sucked to as did giannis FT shooting game 5)

Did you not read the post?

[GoldenAntlers]

Hilarious thread title MD

[GoldenAntlers]

Jae Crowder the only reason i kept watching the game, to see how he looked.

How'd he look? I turned it off early, but wanted to keep watching for the same reason.

[Daver]

Exactly. Mid teens without the just comical WTF aspects and disorganization would be good enough with what should be a top 3ish offense to give you a legit shot in the playoffs. Just to have some basic fundamental principals and consistency of some kind, even if the personnel does limit its ceiling. At least make the other team earn it.

Also, Buds 1 seed best team in ATL won two rounds and made the ECF only to lose to peak LBJ. That's not crapping the bed at all. Best record in the league with that no superstar roster, made the final four to lose to peak LBJ. That team did it all it could. To me the by far biggest blemish was blowing the 2-0 Toronto series, and its not even close. Still kick myself about that one and think its a bit overlooked here as what should've been moment. Bos with no KM and still made game 7, last year with a hobbled Giannis are crap luck. Though of course should've still beat MIA.

Also, since this has mostly been a defensive discussion. Other than last year's 1 series with a hobbled Giannis, Buds Ds in mke were not terrible/crap bedding etc in the playoffs. It was the O that was the problem in the playoffs. Really wish they'd have known they had Dame coming before deciding on Bud. He would've fixed the playoff O problems just on talent alone. Keep the same solid D core fundamentals, but results go a notch or two below due to Dame. I get the team felt it needed a 'shakeup' and coach was the easiest way to do it. In hindsight, the JRue/Dame trade would have been the shakeup.

How can you say the D wasnt tbe problem vs miami ffs the heat averaged what 110 a game or so during the RS n i think thats high.They averaged over 120 a gsme vs the bucks.In fact it was mentioned during that series that miami had more games of 120 or more in that series along thsn during the RS.That series was lost because of the garbage D they playes( agreed O sucked to as did giannis FT shooting game 5)

Did you not read the post?

I did you said after that highlighted sentence that buds D wasnt bad im saying if buds D didnt suck agsinst boston in 22 or if he made any sort of D adjustment they probably beat boston without midds.
He had 2 players tell him to get his head out of his ass when it came to the D side of the ball.Yes its much better than the sh.. show we are seeing now but i think its way more scheme thsn personal

[DingleJerry]

How can you say the D wasnt tbe problem vs miami ffs the heat averaged what 110 a game or so during the RS n i think thats high.They averaged over 120 a gsme vs the bucks.In fact it was mentioned during that series that miami had more games of 120 or more in that series along thsn during the RS.That series was lost because of the garbage D they playes( agreed O sucked to as did giannis FT shooting game 5)

Did you not read the post?

I did you said after that highlighted sentence that buds D wasnt bad im saying if buds D didnt suck agsinst boston in 22 or if he made any sort of D adjustment they probably beat boston without midds.
He had 2 players tell him to get his head out of his ass when it came to the D side of the ball.Yes its much better than the sh.. show we are seeing now but i think its way more scheme thsn personal

You made an insulting post and a big thing about how can I not say it was bad vs MIA when I literally said 'except for least year's series'.

And yea you can rant on the past stuff, but fact is they were statistically good on D all the other years. Like you can bash the Bos for some reason but I'm pretty sure that year they were the #1 playoff D and they held Bos below their numbers. They must have made some good moves and adjustment to do that. They lost because the O sucked.

[FrieAaron]

How can you say the D wasnt tbe problem vs miami ffs the heat averaged what 110 a game or so during the RS n i think thats high.They averaged over 120 a gsme vs the bucks.In fact it was mentioned during that series that miami had more games of 120 or more in that series along thsn during the RS.That series was lost because of the garbage D they playes( agreed O sucked to as did giannis FT shooting game 5)

Did you not read the post?

I did you said after that highlighted sentence that buds D wasnt bad im saying if buds D didnt suck agsinst boston in 22 or if he made any sort of D adjustment they probably beat boston without midds.
He had 2 players tell him to get his head out of his ass when it came to the D side of the ball.Yes its much better than the sh.. show we are seeing now but i think its way more scheme thsn personal

Our defense was fine against the Celtics. Boston's ORTG that series was 108.8. Miami held them to 110.7. The only playoff opponent who did better against them was Golden State. The problem was, as Jerry said, our offense without Khris was atrocious at 99.7

[BucksStatsGuy]

Actually for several seasons in Dame's tenure in Portland, the defense was at least adequate and beyond, even after the Aldridge et al. exodus. When Nurkic played at least 70 games, the defense was top half, even top 10. It seems to me that Lopez should work at least just as well, if and only if the coach knows how to blend them on the court.

During my time with the Bucks, I'd often hold up Stotts/Portland as an example of how you can have a good defense without necessarily some defensive stud in the paint. He was pretty on top of trends, making it a priority to limit 3s, allow teams to jack up midrangers, etc. Hell I'd often take their X/Y data and show where our defenders were on corner 3s compared to theirs just to show that, yknow, stopping corner 3s is a choice.

[mediocrityrules]

Jae Crowder the only reason i kept watching the game, to see how he looked.

How'd he look? I turned it off early, but wanted to keep watching for the same reason.

For his first game in months, I was happy with what I saw. Shooting touch was there straight away.

[GoldenAntlers]

Jae Crowder the only reason i kept watching the game, to see how he looked.

How'd he look? I turned it off early, but wanted to keep watching for the same reason.

For his first game in months, I was happy with what I saw. Shooting touch was there straight away.

Pretty sure I saw him miss three 3's.

[theFireBlanket]

"Certainly Griff is a problem too and I can't find any redeeming qualities of him as a coach, but I don't know how you make any team even adequate defensively with Dame on it. Then you add Beasley and Mids to the mix. Good luck."
Actually for several seasons in Dame's tenure in Portland, the defense was at least adequate and beyond, even after the Aldridge et al. exodus. When Nurkic played at least 70 games, the defense was top half, even top 10. It seems to me that Lopez should work at least just as well, if and only if the coach knows how to blend them on the court.

Yes, the defense was downgraded by the trade; but in equal measure the offense was upgraded talent wise. A talented head coach would know how to optimize the offensive upgrade while minimizing the defensive downgrade. Despite the present offensive rating, I don't believe it is close to its offensive upgraded talent. On the other hand, the defensive downgrade appears maximize, not minimized.

Do you know if Terry's following the team & if so, has there been commentary about the results?

[DingleJerry]

How'd he look? I turned it off early, but wanted to keep watching for the same reason.

For his first game in months, I was happy with what I saw. Shooting touch was there straight away.

Pretty sure I saw him miss three 3's.

Yea I did 1H only and I think he missed all 3s. But maybe he did make 1. I don't know, I'd say I thought his 'shiftiness/quickness' looked good and likely a bit better than last year. Seemed to not be overweight. Eye test seems he'd be more useful than Pat that's for sure. But yea didn't see the 2H

[Mtsportsfan]

We need Bud

I never understood the “we needed to move on” argument for Bud.

Bottom line: we are much much worse today than we were when we had Bud.

I'll say that I was of the move Bud train and still do (although I would want him back) thought for sure Nurse was going to be the replacement, instead we got a rookie coach that actually lowered the IQ of a team that already had a low BB IQ! Didn't think it was possible but here we are! Can't blame Horst for going for the fences ( Dame) but I do blame him for hiring a rookie coach that's way over his head!

[theFireBlanket]

Niang had the most efficient 33pt game from the bench ever. Shot 93 percent.

Malik, Pat, Brook & Crowder leaving him wide on a lot of 3s. But he was cooking & made a lot of plays happen himself too.

[Daver]

Did you not read the post?

I did you said after that highlighted sentence that buds D wasnt bad im saying if buds D didnt suck agsinst boston in 22 or if he made any sort of D adjustment they probably beat boston without midds.
He had 2 players tell him to get his head out of his ass when it came to the D side of the ball.Yes its much better than the sh.. show we are seeing now but i think its way more scheme thsn personal

You made an insulting post and a big thing about how can I not say it was bad vs MIA when I literally said 'except for least year's series'.

And yea you can rant on the past stuff, but fact is they were statistically good on D all the other years. Like you can bash the Bos for some reason but I'm pretty sure that year they were the #1 playoff D and they held Bos below their numbers. They must have made some good moves and adjustment to do that. They lost because the O sucked.

My apoligies ok never do i want to be insulting in responding .So im sorry difnt mean for it to come out that way

[mediocrityrules]

For his first game in months, I was happy with what I saw. Shooting touch was there straight away.

Pretty sure I saw him miss three 3's.

Yea I did 1H only and I think he missed all 3s. But maybe he did make 1. I don't know, I'd say I thought his 'shiftiness/quickness' looked good and likely a bit better than last year. Seemed to not be overweight. Eye test seems he'd be more useful than Pat that's for sure. But yea didn't see the 2H

He ended up shooting 4/10 from 3. He seemed to be moving fine across the floor as well.

[mediocrityrules]

Niang had the most efficient 33pt game from the bench ever. Shot 93 percent.

Malik, Pat, Brook & Crowder leaving him wide on a lot of 3s. But he was cooking & made a lot of plays happen himself too.

I remember at least twice where Niang found himself on his own because our guys both rotated to the same player and just left the hot shooter wide open.

[nagawicka]

Jae Crowder the only reason i kept watching the game, to see how he looked.

How'd he look? I turned it off early, but wanted to keep watching for the same reason.

Jae looked spry, quick, on-point and in-place. Shot was off to the right a hair, he bonked at least a half dozen before dialing one in for all-net. They were feeding him so he could find his shooting groove, per this board, but the other stuff is what I wanted to see--

[GoldenAntlers]

Pretty sure I saw him miss three 3's.

Yea I did 1H only and I think he missed all 3s. But maybe he did make 1. I don't know, I'd say I thought his 'shiftiness/quickness' looked good and likely a bit better than last year. Seemed to not be overweight. Eye test seems he'd be more useful than Pat that's for sure. But yea didn't see the 2H

He ended up shooting 4/10 from 3. He seemed to be moving fine across the floor as well.

I'm glad they kept feeding him the rock.