PG Denver: Bench? What Bench?

[FrieAaron]

We are 2 and 2 since the firing Griff. The D s better which I like but it just might not matter. Sid is right. Players matter as well.

We literally went from the easiest schedule in the league to the hardest. We knew it was very possible the record would be worse no matter who was brought in as a coach. It was said time and time again. Going 8-7 in that 15 game stretch wouldn't be awful. What's important is that we improve in the final half of the season. And despite a 2-2 record, we look better.

[msiris]

Tough road game vs a top title contender and you hung in during game 1. Biggest takeaway I'd have from the 4 games since firing is the D has simply been better. No more 40 pt quarters, 75 pt halves and 150 type scores. They've played games in the normal score range of the nba these days. Its progress.

We are 2 and 2 since the firing Griff. The D s better which I like but it just might not matter. Sid is right. Players matter as well.

The two losses weren't glaring. They were the not-quite-back-to-back against the same team Cavs which always introduces a chaos factor and in Denver. I think the D being better is the best takeaway.

It is but in the two loses the offense was bad down the stretch.

[msiris]

We are 2 and 2 since the firing Griff. The D s better which I like but it just might not matter. Sid is right. Players matter as well.

We literally went from the easiest schedule in the league to the hardest. We knew it was very possible the record would be worse no matter who was brought in as a coach. It was said time and time again. Going 8-7 in that 15 game stretch wouldn't be awful. What's important is that we improve in the final half of the season. And despite a 2-2 record, we look better.

All Iam saying it just might not matter.

[woosah]

I love Giannis, but dude sets the weakest screens ive ever seen man.

I don't know if we're ever going to figure out the Giannis Dame thing, it requires Giannis to sacrifice too much and i dont know if he will ever fully buy in

a bar

It will come but it takes patience and work and I do wonder if that has been happening or has he been resistant to it, opting to go with the comfort of plays with Khris and this is why many want K to go. I think that's extreme. Just dedicate time to working on this.

[GoldenAntlers]

I like to think Doc gave the vets a chance against the defending champs to prove their worth. Trades incoming.

[ShootingtheJ]

Beasley did an admirable job guarding Murray last night. Not sure this is the game to point to about his defense.

Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat. This game was a perfect example of all of Beasley's weaknesses.

[theFireBlanket]

I've also noticed that Beasley has taken poorer shots recently. He has been highly efficient, because he has taken open shots and not forced anything. Recently, that's changed. He needs to get back to what he does well, which is shoot when he is open.

Doc called this out in the post game presser. Saying while Beasley didn't give us good shot selection, he gave effort on defense.

[theFireBlanket]

Beasley did an admirable job guarding Murray last night. Not sure this is the game to point to about his defense.

Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat. This game was a perfect example of all of Beasley's weaknesses.

He gave effort early on, not sure about the whole game. Denver was talking sh-- & laughing about that matchup in the 4th quarter. Jokic pointing at Beas, talking to Murray, shaking his head. They exploited it.

And he was taking awful shots. But so was Dame.

[BigO]

His points per shot attempt and efg% are each around the 35th percentile for his position. His assist per usage is in the 2nd percentile. He is an inefficient black hole by those numbers.

He's also a huge energy boost and fan favorite so...

Searching for stats to make him look bad is a great science on this board.

I looked at the ranking of TS% and EFG% and they don't at all pass the eye test in terms of players anyone would consider offensive threats.

I recommend everyone look at the link below on EFG and TS%.

Then look at the link on FG% and the difference is night and day in terms of who you would want on your team if you were building an offense. Are there anomalies on the lists-of course.

But by and large, not one GM would build an offense based on EFG or TS rankings, while many would build it based on the players in the second link.



https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=EFG_PCT

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/offensive/sort/fieldGoalPct/dir/desc

Now you're trying to tell us that TS% and eFG% don't matter. Turns out 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers, which TS% and eFG% take into account.

They also give context when combined with watching games.

DeAndre Jordan led the league in eFG% for multiple seasons, he also led the league in FG%.

So he's the hill you want to die on?

No the hill I want to die on is common sense.

You can look at the lists I sent out above. You and others can hang your hat on the leaders in TS and eFG and I'll go with the list of players leading in overall field goal percentage. It's that simple.

Again, just imagine you saw the three charts I posted (TS%, eFG%, overall shooting percentage), but didn't know which was which. Which list would you think corresponded with what your eyes tell you?

[Ron Swanson]

Beasley did an admirable job guarding Murray last night. Not sure this is the game to point to about his defense.

Lol, Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat.

Some serious "PJ Tucker is overrated cuz Durant dropped 40 on him" energy here.

[KidA24]

Searching for stats to make him look bad is a great science on this board.

I looked at the ranking of TS% and EFG% and they don't at all pass the eye test in terms of players anyone would consider offensive threats.

I recommend everyone look at the link below on EFG and TS%.

Then look at the link on FG% and the difference is night and day in terms of who you would want on your team if you were building an offense. Are there anomalies on the lists-of course.

But by and large, not one GM would build an offense based on EFG or TS rankings, while many would build it based on the players in the second link.



https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=EFG_PCT

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/offensive/sort/fieldGoalPct/dir/desc

Now you're trying to tell us that TS% and eFG% don't matter. Turns out 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers, which TS% and eFG% take into account.

They also give context when combined with watching games.

DeAndre Jordan led the league in eFG% for multiple seasons, he also led the league in FG%.

So he's the hill you want to die on?

No the hill I want to die on is common sense.

You can look at the lists I sent out above. You and others can hang your hat on the leaders in TS and eFG and I'll go with the list of players leading in overall field goal percentage. It's that simple.

Again, just imagine you saw the three charts I posted (TS%, eFG%, overall shooting percentage), but didn't know which was which. Which list would you think corresponded with what your eyes tell you?

So DeAndre Jordan is one of the greatest players ever and Steph Curry isn't?

[soxperry]

Well, if the Bobby boys are right about him, there should be multiple teams pounding on the door to get him, right? We'll find out how much hes valued when he's traded.

Everyone agrees he cant defend. So its a no brainer to send him for some defense. Give all his shots to the core 4 and our ts% goes up. On paper that makes us better on both ends, yeah? Good talk..

[CharityStripe34]

I will say, as much as I've been dismissing the obsession with the number of Dame/Giannis pick-and-rolls, this was certainly the game where you should have spammed it over and over again, especially in crunch time. Jokic was getting annihilated in the Brook pick & pop game and whenever Giannis had a sliver of space to attack the rim.

I'm confident they'll get it together with an actual grown-up on the bench now though. It's like people forget that even prime Lebron had to adjust his game to playing with D-Wade, and yet I still see people here griping about how it's all on one guy rather than it being a two-way street.

Not quite comparable, but when Greece played against Serbia in that epic game in Belgrade 1.5 years ago, the NT coach did exactly this multiple times that game in crunch-time. He took Kalathes (who's a good passer and quick) and ran pick-and-roll against Jokic and Giannis got like 4-5 straight easy baskets against him catching the ball at the FT line.

Figured last night they would go to it and try and put Jokic on an island with Khris being the strong-side kick out shooter.

[soxperry]

Beasley did an admirable job guarding Murray last night. Not sure this is the game to point to about his defense.

Lol, Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat.

Some serious "PJ Tucker is overrated cuz Durant dropped 40 on him" energy here.

Nobody thinks Beasley can defend, dont embarrass yourself

[Ron Swanson]

Lol, Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat.

Some serious "PJ Tucker is overrated cuz Durant dropped 40 on him" energy here.

Nobody thinks Beasley can defend, dont embarrass yourself

Nobody's throwing out this dumb strawman that Beasley is anything but an average defender on his good days, but you guys picking this game of all games to pick on his perimeter defense just goes to show you that even when presented with video evidence to the contrary, agendas are a hell of a drug. It's like some people just can't accept that guys like Jamal Murray are really good tough shot-makers and some nights he's gonna get his points no matter who's guarding him.

[DingleJerry]

I will say, as much as I've been dismissing the obsession with the number of Dame/Giannis pick-and-rolls, this was certainly the game where you should have spammed it over and over again, especially in crunch time. Jokic was getting annihilated in the Brook pick & pop game and whenever Giannis had a sliver of space to attack the rim.

I'm confident they'll get it together with an actual grown-up on the bench now though. It's like people forget that even prime Lebron had to adjust his game to playing with D-Wade, and yet I still see people here griping about how it's all on one guy rather than it being a two-way street.

Not quite comparable, but when Greece played against Serbia in that epic game in Belgrade 1.5 years ago, the NT coach did exactly this multiple times that game in crunch-time. He took Kalathes (who's a good passer and quick) and ran pick-and-roll against Jokic and Giannis got like 4-5 straight easy baskets against him catching the ball at the FT line.

Figured last night they would go to it and try and put Jokic on an island with Khris being the strong-side kick out shooter.

This should be the foundation of the offense. Those two with Khris/Beaz waiting for their wide open 3s. Of course you can't run it every single time but this should be the foundation just like a Duncan/Parker ball screen was the foundation of the spurs. Dame has put up great team offensive stats with him and a plumlee doing this, imagine what Giannis can do when handed a 4 on 3. Its easier than him going 1 vs 3 in iso

[DingleJerry]

Well, if the Bobby boys are right about him, there should be multiple teams pounding on the door to get him, right? We'll find out how much hes valued when he's traded.

Everyone agrees he cant defend. So its a no brainer to send him for some defense. Give all his shots to the core 4 and our ts% goes up. On paper that makes us better on both ends, yeah? Good talk..

As someone else recently said, I think Bobby's best value is to a midlevel or worse team that wants some vet presence, stability, competency. Let him play 30 mins rack up counting stats to help you put a respectable product on the floor, hopefully flip him in a year or two when you can say "he's a 20/10 guy". For older ideas on here BKN seemed to fit well since they don't own their own picks. Por too since they're so bad and their younger guys are Gs so he's not blocking anyone, he be a solid player while you lose.

[Packbuckman]

Beasley did an admirable job guarding Murray last night. Not sure this is the game to point to about his defense.

Murray scored 35 on great efficiency, and the misses he had were when Crowder was on him. He cooked Beasley, and a little bit of Pat. This game was a perfect example of all of Beasley's weaknesses.

This right here Beasley tries but just can’t stay in front of the best guards consistently or effect their shots. Jae I thought played great D on Murray wish he would have ended game on him. Beasley needs to come off the bench start Ajax MB or Jae

[vital_signs]

Bobby is on this championship plaque thing my parents got me as a present so I will always have love for him but good lord he was rotten. And Dame? ugh, doesn't even need to be said.

Still nice to see the boys in person and Bucks fans were well represented last night.

[pifhluk23]

The game was fun to watch and deserves some good analysis. But before I can get to that, the horrible takes in this thread about Bobby need to be addressed:

1) You Bobby haters wait till he has an inefficient night shooting and then swarm like flies on you know what. Where were you after the prior game where he scored 20 on high efficiency? RealGM posters represent the best in gross opportunism.

2) Bobby Portis is one of the most efficient scorers on the team. While his three point shooting is just under 38% (not great but certainly not bad), he is shooting almost 50% from the field overall. That means he is shooting way over 50% on twos.

3) His efficiency is why his coaches want him to post up and shoot. So those of you in this thread who claim he is inefficient, is it possible for you to reconsider your view, or is this something you were born with and can't give up?

4) Bobby averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season. His numbers are way down because Griffin (he should be a RealGM poster) decided to play him way out on the court, away from where his strength is. You saw Doc play him down low and he got 12 rebounds. That's why he was in the game. He is an elite rebounder for his build and once again, defensive rebounding is a key part of playing defense. But many posters don't value rebounding, so they just ignore that part of his game.

Bobby Portis is a very good player. Not an all star, but certainly much more valuable than the horrible takes on this board would suggest.

His points per shot attempt and efg% are each around the 35th percentile for his position. His assist per usage is in the 2nd percentile. He is an inefficient black hole by those numbers.

He's also a huge energy boost and fan favorite so...

Searching for stats to make him look bad is a great science on this board.

I looked at the ranking of TS% and EFG% and they don't at all pass the eye test in terms of players anyone would consider offensive threats.

I recommend everyone look at the link below on EFG and TS%.

Then look at the link on FG% and the difference is night and day in terms of who you would want on your team if you were building an offense. Are there anomalies on the lists-of course.

But by and large, not one GM would build an offense based on EFG or TS rankings, while many would build it based on the players in the second link.



https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=-1&sort=EFG_PCT

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/offensive/sort/fieldGoalPct/dir/desc

Someone posted this yesterday or the day before but Bobby is night and day Home vs Road. He honestly should get DNPs on road games...

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/3064482/bobby-portis