Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst to Detroit rumor

[JayMKE]

Still should explore moving Dame while he has value and his contract isn't crippling, don't think he's a championship player. Bucks can reset the roster and still be competitive, Giannis alone is good for where we're at now. Dame too old to "rebuild" around, he's not getting better but he is getting paid more.

[Ron Swanson]

Trying to think of a realistic offseason scenario where they do a mini-blow up of the core:

MIL Out: Brook, Marjon
MIL In: Jerami Grant

POR Out: Jerami Grant
POR In: #12, Marjon

OKC Out: #12
OKC In: Brook

- Middleton/Pat for Bogdan/Deandre Hunter
- Package #23 and #33 to move up in the teens. Draft Devin Carter.
- Re-sign Pat Bev

Dame/Bev
Bogdan/Carter/Green
Hunter/AJJ
Grant
Giannis/Bobby

Sign a couple vet minimum ring-chasers and there's your re-set offseason to get younger/more dynamic athletes around Dame/Giannis. You'd still have Bobby as a valuable asset to move at the deadline, but that admittedly leaves you pretty thin in the front court. Shouldn't be too hard to grab an athletic rim-runner/rim-protector on a minimum though.

[paulpressey25]

we'd be in a much better spot from a coaching and organizational stability standpoint.

We're the Cavaliers, and the dynamic with Giannis is the same as it was with LeBron. However, Giannis is just a much nicer person and good guy than LeBron. But yes, come this offseason, we'll be exploring acquiring Shaq, trading for Jamison, etc.

But the real way through this is a retool process, where Giannis accepts a year or two where we take a step back. Will he do that? Who knows.

[BigO]

I'm not down on Dame. He's a point machine. And he still has the opportunity to keep pouring it on the Pacers.

But as you look at the decisions made over the past 12-months, in retrospect, I'd personally rescind them if I could.

Bud >> Doc (Bud is Sloan or a young Pop, Doc is sort of George Karl)

Jrue, Grayson, 2029 unprotected 1st, 2028 and 2030 pick swaps > Dame

I get all the problems we had with Jrue, especially in the playoffs. But watching that uncontested layup line to the rim last night got me to thinking about Big Dog. He'd put up 34 points and people would go crazy at the Bark Board. But a Cedric Ceballos would get 36 on him and we'd lose.

At this moment, I'd rather be riding with Jrue, Grayson and probably a different damn good player we could have gotten with those pick and salary space assets.

Love your hot takes PP, but I disagree with all of them. I won't burden you with the reasons, since you know them already.

The only general criticism I would have with Horst (other than hiring Griffin) is that he hitched his wagon to the veteran card and that is the main culprit for why the Bucks are where they are at.

But even then, what was he supposed to do? Let KM go for nothing? Let Brook go for nothing and still be over the cap? He is in a tough spot and I don't envy him.

Bucks are in a bind. As I have stated over and over, with a healthy top three, I would pick them to win the championship. But that is not only unlikely to happen this season, but the odds get worse each year.

[paulpressey25]

Still should explore moving Dame while he has value and his contract isn't crippling, don't think he's a championship player. Bucks can reset the roster and still be competitive, Giannis alone is good for where we're at now. Dame too old to "rebuild" around, he's not getting better but he is getting paid more.

Best case Dame scenario #1 - He leads us deep in the playoffs, hitting plenty of clutch shots along the way. Dame jerseys sell everywhere, and the team figures out how to add another core player around Dame and Giannis.

Best case Dame scenario #2 - He scores a ****, as the Bucks are bounced. And Pat Riley thinks it ok to give up Jaime, Jovic and Herro for him.

[paulpressey25]

The only general criticism I would have with Horst (other than hiring Griffin) is that he hitched his wagon to the veteran card and that is the main culprit for why the Bucks are where they are at.

But even then, what was he supposed to do? Let KM go for nothing? Let Brook go for nothing and still be over the cap? He is in a tough spot and I don't envy him.

I'm not super critical of Horst or the front office. They did the best they could under the circumstances, and ultimately won a title. I get it, they had few options. As a fan, no complaints. Titles are hard. Breaking up an old team that won a title, even harder.

Just simply noting that in hindsight, I'm not sure the paths they took are working out. But we'll learn more on that front as the Indy series plays out.

[Ron Swanson]

we'd be in a much better spot from a coaching and organizational stability standpoint.

We're the Cavaliers, and the dynamic with Giannis is the same as it was with LeBron. However, Giannis is just a much nicer person and good guy than LeBron. But yes, come this offseason, we'll be exploring acquiring Shaq, trading for Jamison, etc.

But the real way through this is a retool process, where Giannis accepts a year or two where we take a step back. Will he do that? Who knows.

I know this is something a large contingent of this board has wanted for years, but this isn't reality. There's no magic 1-2 year youth movement rebuild with draft picks and then all of a sudden BAM, we're contenders again right after that. Giannis turns 30 next year. There's re-tool trades around Dame/Giannis that can get us younger while still keeping the window of contention open (see: previous idea).

Best case Dame scenario #2 - He scores a ****, as the Bucks are bounced. And Pat Riley thinks it ok to give up Jaime, Jovic and Herro for him.

Case in point. Sorry, but this is some absolute darkest timeline stuff and pretty much slams shut any hope of a championship for the rest of Giannis' time here. Like, I'd trade Dame for Zach LaVine and a future lottery protected 1st before I'd do that. Gross.

[chonestown]

Horst vets at deadline-ish:
Mrotic -
Marvin -
PJ +
Patrick Beverages +
Serge -
Il Travissimo Bickle -
Crowder (push, leaning -)

Eeehhhhhhhh

[Fotis St]

We need something similar as the Divac for Kobe trade.

Our Divac is Khris or Brook or both.

Find the freakiest athlete in this draft class. Even if he is a late bloomer, maybe it is better for us. Or find the freakiest athlete at the forward position still on rookie contract and get him.

Horst needs to get fired regardless our run, unless we reach the Finals. The dude is the definition of an NPC. 4 years watching Butler, Tatum, Brown, Siakam torching us and still not adressing the lack of a wing defender .... FU

[paulpressey25]

Case in point. Sorry, but this is some absolute darkest timeline stuff and pretty much slams shut any hope of a championship for the rest of Giannis' time here. Like, I'd trade Dame for Zach LaVine and a future lottery protected 1st before I'd do that. Gross.

This team needs youth. Those are three young live bodies on the Heat. Jaime is 23, Tyler is 24 and Jovic is 20.

Are their better trades out there? Probably. But Jerami Grant is 30 and Bogdan turns 32 before next season. And we'd likely need more assets to get Grant. I'd rather roll with younger guys, and take my chances that Giannis gravity helps them grow.

[DingleJerry]

Its feasible that since you likely wouldn't be adding picks with Dame in that Heat idea that you could then flip Herro and picks for someone you like better in the scorer/lead handler role. Whoever that might be

[Ron Swanson]

Case in point. Sorry, but this is some absolute darkest timeline stuff and pretty much slams shut any hope of a championship for the rest of Giannis' time here. Like, I'd trade Dame for Zach LaVine and a future lottery protected 1st before I'd do that. Gross.

This team needs youth. Those are three young live bodies on the Heat. Jaime is 23, Tyler is 24 and Jovic is 20.

Are their better trades out there? Probably. But Jerami Grant is 30 and Bogdan turns 32 before next season. And we'd likely need more assets to get Grant. I'd rather roll with younger guys, and take my chances that Giannis gravity helps them grow.

This team needs athletic perimeter defenders and 16-game players. None of which describe Tyler Herro, Jaime Jacquez, or a 20-year old euro stiff who people only know because his name rhymes with the current MVP. These guys are/were all mid-late 1st round picks for a reason. Unless you're just absurdly high on Jacquez, I have no idea what kind of upside you see with a trade like this.

[Karsenmitsche]

Way too early for draft talk but Ryan Dunn might be the wing answer. Extreme athleticism and probably the best defender in the draft. Projected to go mid 20s.

https://youtu.be/5eKI0KKy49E?si=vJd_pL7P0gT4GKU9

[raferfenix]

But the real way through this is a retool process, where Giannis accepts a year or two where we take a step back. Will he do that? Who knows.

Counterpoint: Bucks just took a step back retooling with the Dame trade.

We still need to make the roster make sense around him and Giannis is the challenge. Our predicament is largely a function of that deal going down so late in the offseason as well as how much we needed to trade to make it happen.

Brook and Khris will also be much easier to leverage after we secured their contracts last summer. Pat Bev helped but if the Bucks are eyeing another foundation-level trade (as opposed to Bobby or Pat and picks) the deadline just might not have been the best time to pull the trigger.

[paulpressey25]

This team needs athletic perimeter defenders and 16-game players. None of which describe Tyler Herro, Jaime Jacquez, or a 20-year old euro stiff

I'm not sure Bogdan and Jerami fit that description either. A backcourt of Dame, Bogdan and a 50-year old Pat Beverly aren't going to stop the HOV lane that opponents now have to drive to the basket.

(BTW - nothing personal with any of you guys. Haven't posted that much the last three years, because nothing to complain about. But we may shortly be back to full time trade ideas on here. And roster turmoil makes for an entertaining Bucks board)

[rilamann]

Case in point. Sorry, but this is some absolute darkest timeline stuff and pretty much slams shut any hope of a championship for the rest of Giannis' time here. Like, I'd trade Dame for Zach LaVine and a future lottery protected 1st before I'd do that. Gross.

This team needs youth. Those are three young live bodies on the Heat. Jaime is 23, Tyler is 24 and Jovic is 20.

Are their better trades out there? Probably. But Jerami Grant is 30 and Bogdan turns 32 before next season. And we'd likely need more assets to get Grant. I'd rather roll with younger guys, and take my chances that Giannis gravity helps them grow.

Sign me up for that Heat trade.

Dame in a plot twist, turned out to be a bad fit next to Giannis, doesn't want to be here and he's an aging player.

If we could get 3 high quality competitors all under the age of 25 in exchange for him, I would be all over that.

Then see if you can still get anything of value for Middleton and Lopez.

We're getting beat in the 1st round by bottom seeds every season anyway, we might as well do it with a group of young guys who at least have a chance to improve.

The odds of us getting a another title with Giannis are incredibly slim, but we have zero shot if we don't completely overhaul the team like right now.

[fansinceforever]

I honestly don't see another avenue towards a legitimate retooling that doesn't involve moving Dame.

He's the only guy on the roster that helps us fetch multiple athletic wing(s), guard(s), big(s) who can defend their position and come with skills offensively. We don't get that for anyone else on the roster.

[raferfenix]

Bucks need athletic defenders who can stay healthy.

Youth for its own sake doesn’t interest me.

Neither does betting on guys playing better away from Miami.

[fansinceforever]

Case in point. Sorry, but this is some absolute darkest timeline stuff and pretty much slams shut any hope of a championship for the rest of Giannis' time here. Like, I'd trade Dame for Zach LaVine and a future lottery protected 1st before I'd do that. Gross.

This team needs youth. Those are three young live bodies on the Heat. Jaime is 23, Tyler is 24 and Jovic is 20.

Are their better trades out there? Probably. But Jerami Grant is 30 and Bogdan turns 32 before next season. And we'd likely need more assets to get Grant. I'd rather roll with younger guys, and take my chances that Giannis gravity helps them grow.

Sign me up for that Heat trade.

Dame in a plot twist, turned out to be a bad fit next to Giannis, doesn't want to be here and he's an aging player.

If we could get 3 high quality competitors all under the age of 25 in exchange for him, I would be all over that.

Then see if you can still get anything of value for Middleton and Lopez.

We're getting beat in the 1st round by bottom seeds every season anyway, we might as well do it with a group of young guys who at least have a chance to improve.

The odds of us getting a another title with Giannis are incredibly slim, but we have zero shot if we don't completely overhaul the team like right now.

There it is. This needs to be understood by the organization regardless of whether we sneak past the Pacers or not.

[JayMKE]

But the real way through this is a retool process, where Giannis accepts a year or two where we take a step back. Will he do that? Who knows.

Counterpoint: Bucks just took a step back retooling with the Dame trade.

Pretty much, this team hasn’t looked like a contender all year and Giannis alone can get us to 1st/2nd round ceiling. Tripling down on old guys will continue to burn us.