PG: Memphis Blues

[-Jragon-]

I don't know if it's because the players have power more now or keeping them happy, but imo one of the big problems with our coaching in the recent years is having no leash for bs play, lazy defense and sloppy play. When coaches used to have nuts they'd pull a guy for a stupid turnover or ole defense but then a year later he gets fired so I don't know if it's possible anymore.

And furthermore, keep a bench guy in as much as possible when he's hot or winning his matchup. Like how many times must we through a guy that's 1-6 back in the game for 10 more minutes just because it's his turn. Miss 2 and don't get back on D, sit your ass down.. you want to get minutes again? Run and make your damn open shots.

[emunney]

I don't mind idle speculation on what we could get if we decided to trade Giannis. And bad opinions are necessary to turn the gears in our take-based economy. I'm just not going to agree with them.

Nobody posting on this board is likely to see a player as good as Giannis playing for the Bucks again. If we trade him for 10 draft picks, we have to understand that if we're lucky, after years of development we'll end up with the kind of Don Nelson bridesmaid team we had in the 80s. Great fun, not a bad outcome, and far from a given. Trading Giannis should be a last resort that comes after he asks out and we've exhausted all efforts to retain him.

The idea that he has not (paraphrasing) taken the "next step" into top 50 all time, when he is already acknowledged as the most dominant player of his era, and is playing better than he ever has, is so blinkered it really doesn't need to be talked about. Thankfully. We can all just sigh and roll our eyes and go back to talking about actual ball.

[-Jragon-]

I was hoping Doc would bring this but so far it's a no... like listen guys.. I don't care about your salary or your minutes average or your points average. If you play good minutes when you're in, you get more. If you're sloppy lazy and dumb you can sit and watch how it's done properly. Light a fire under their ass.. they don't want to be here then send them home like PJ

[ColeWorld23]

In this hypothetical trading Giannis scenario to become like OKC, let’s remember one thing John Horst is no Sam Presti. No way in hell you can trust this organization to strike lightning again with another Giannis and Khris Superstar/Star era. We’re not the Thunder as we can see with the roster moves that have been made for “development”. Keep Giannis until the wheels fall off or else everyone has to go in the organization across the board. We are not a franchise like the Thunder who actually draft and develop with a successful scouting department and plan.

[BigO]

I see so much doom and gloom about the Bucks here and all over the media and podcasts. I'm honestly so much more hopeful. I just think it's going to take more time for Doc to get the Bucks moving in the right direction. If we still suck in April then I'll start to worry.

This is where I'm at.

I think the doom and gloom comes from many posters whose opinion changes like the temperature. If the Bucks roll off 3 wins in a row, their analysis will change.

Of course, people have the right to think Giannis is lazy and the Bucks should look at trading him. Just don't take them seriously, especially after the amazing performance he put on against Memphis. I'd be shocked if there isn't much better play going forward by the rest of the team.

As I said before, it comes down to Lillard and KM. If they play to 90% of what they've done before, I'm bullish.

[jimmybones]

I agree the idea of trading Giannis unless he wants out is asinine but I'm not opposed to the idea of trading literally every one else but Giannis in a nuclear attempt to reset and build something better around him.

[JayMKE]

In this hypothetical trading Giannis scenario to become like OKC, let’s remember one thing John Horst is no Sam Presti. No way in hell you can trust this organization to strike lightning again with another Giannis and Khris Superstar/Star era. We’re not the Thunder as we can see with the roster moves that have been made for “development”. Keep Giannis until the wheels fall off or else everyone has to go in the organization across the board. We are not a franchise like the Thunder who actually draft and develop with a successful scouting department and plan.

Horst legitimately should be on the hot seat, the Bucks should sign real basketball person to be POBO & demote Horst's duties. He should never hire another coach, that's for damn sure.

No superstar demands a trade to Oklahoma City either, if Giannis ever demanded a trade it would be to the same big markets every star wants to play in. Guys like Giannis don't go to the highest bidder and the Bucks do not get back anything close to equal value, that's not a scenario I remotely entertain unless Giannis forced the issue. Gotta do everything the their power to ensure Giannis stays here the rest of his career.

[GoldenAntlers]

Any Giannis trade would be the end for Horst in Milwaukee. If you can't build around him, you can't build. He wouldn't be the guy targeting young development anyway.

I knew even mentioning trading Giannis would give many people whiplash. It's not what I want to see happen. I didn't say it because I'm undervaluing the guy. I understand rebuilding with him is smarter than rebuilding without him. And I am not wishing for the Bucks to trade him.

But like I said, lose 1-4 to a lower seed and everything is suddenly on the table. I still think the Bucks will be legit contenders come playoffs and have a real chance at winning it. I believe next year they will be even better (please trade Pat and Bobby). This team is built for series, not individual games.

[randy84]

I disagree that the Bucks are legit contenders this year. Too much turnover in players and coaching. This team has individual talent, but is not a talented team. I just want them to build for next year and hope that Dame doesn't ask to be traded.

[JayMKE]

Any Giannis trade would be the end for Horst in Milwaukee. If you can't build around him, you can't build. He wouldn't be the guy targeting young development anyway.

I knew even mentioning trading Giannis would give many people whiplash. It's not what I want to see happen. I didn't say it because I'm undervaluing the guy. I understand rebuilding with him is smarter than rebuilding without him. And I am not wishing for the Bucks to trade him.

But like I said, lose 1-4 to a lower seed and everything is suddenly on the table. I still think the Bucks will be legit contenders come playoffs and have a real chance at winning it. I believe next year they will be even better (please trade Pat and Bobby). This team is built for series, not individual games.

I applaud stirring the pot but Giannis is the best step 1 building piece in the league IMO so unless he demanded there is no way I would consider it. I don't think moving on from our aged core players outside Giannis need some sort of tanking rebuilding year, that's the whole point of it being a "reload" and doing it sooner rather than later. The simple fact is if Dame, Khris, and Lopez can't get it done then the amount of space they take up is crippling and we're just locked into something that won't work while in imminent decline from age. I don't see how its realistic to think we'll have a contender next year just based on dumping Bobby Portis & Pat Connaughton.

Lakers are dumb and desperate, just like us, those picks + salary relief/at worse a stop gap starter + a young player is a pretty good return from Dame IMO and would give the Bucks a ton of flexibility to pursue more moves. That's before even dealing with Khris or Brook or Bobby or Pat or whoever else you want to move, Bucks should be able to position themselves to make a godfather offer for whoever might come available.

[randy84]

Any Giannis trade would be the end for Horst in Milwaukee. If you can't build around him, you can't build. He wouldn't be the guy targeting young development anyway.

I knew even mentioning trading Giannis would give many people whiplash. It's not what I want to see happen. I didn't say it because I'm undervaluing the guy. I understand rebuilding with him is smarter than rebuilding without him. And I am not wishing for the Bucks to trade him.

But like I said, lose 1-4 to a lower seed and everything is suddenly on the table. I still think the Bucks will be legit contenders come playoffs and have a real chance at winning it. I believe next year they will be even better (please trade Pat and Bobby). This team is built for series, not individual games.

I applaud stirring the pot but Giannis is the best step 1 building piece in the league IMO so unless he demanded there is no way I would consider it. I don't think moving on from our aged core players outside Giannis need some sort of tanking rebuilding year, that's the whole point of it being a "reload" and doing it sooner rather than later. The simple fact is if Dame, Khris, and Lopez can't get it done then the amount of space they take up is crippling and we're just locked into something that won't work while in imminent decline from age. I don't see how its realistic to think we'll have a contender next year just based on dumping Bobby Portis & Pat Connaughton.

Lakers are dumb and desperate, just like us, those picks + salary relief/at worse a stop gap starter + a young player is a pretty good return from Dame IMO and would give the Bucks a ton of flexibility to pursue more moves. That's before even dealing with Khris or Brook or Bobby or Pat or whoever else you want to move, Bucks should be able to position themselves to make a godfather offer for whoever might come available.

What young player are you getting from the Lakers for Dame?

[JayMKE]

Any Giannis trade would be the end for Horst in Milwaukee. If you can't build around him, you can't build. He wouldn't be the guy targeting young development anyway.

I knew even mentioning trading Giannis would give many people whiplash. It's not what I want to see happen. I didn't say it because I'm undervaluing the guy. I understand rebuilding with him is smarter than rebuilding without him. And I am not wishing for the Bucks to trade him.

But like I said, lose 1-4 to a lower seed and everything is suddenly on the table. I still think the Bucks will be legit contenders come playoffs and have a real chance at winning it. I believe next year they will be even better (please trade Pat and Bobby). This team is built for series, not individual games.

I applaud stirring the pot but Giannis is the best step 1 building piece in the league IMO so unless he demanded there is no way I would consider it. I don't think moving on from our aged core players outside Giannis need some sort of tanking rebuilding year, that's the whole point of it being a "reload" and doing it sooner rather than later. The simple fact is if Dame, Khris, and Lopez can't get it done then the amount of space they take up is crippling and we're just locked into something that won't work while in imminent decline from age. I don't see how its realistic to think we'll have a contender next year just based on dumping Bobby Portis & Pat Connaughton.

Lakers are dumb and desperate, just like us, those picks + salary relief/at worse a stop gap starter + a young player is a pretty good return from Dame IMO and would give the Bucks a ton of flexibility to pursue more moves. That's before even dealing with Khris or Brook or Bobby or Pat or whoever else you want to move, Bucks should be able to position themselves to make a godfather offer for whoever might come available.

What young player are you getting from the Lakers for Dame?

Well someone derisively said Dame for Reaves/D’lo/picks and I actually thought not bad. Reaves is not a bluechipper but 25 and locked up on a good contract so could use him or reroute easy later on. Lakers have 3 1st rd picks they can move on draft day, so do Bucks I believe. If they’re looking at Kyrie & Trae Young then I figure they’d definitely would be interested in Dame.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I don't mind idle speculation on what we could get if we decided to trade Giannis. And bad opinions are necessary to turn the gears in our take-based economy. I'm just not going to agree with them.

Nobody posting on this board is likely to see a player as good as Giannis playing for the Bucks again. If we trade him for 10 draft picks, we have to understand that if we're lucky, after years of development we'll end up with the kind of Don Nelson bridesmaid team we had in the 80s. Great fun, not a bad outcome, and far from a given. Trading Giannis should be a last resort that comes after he asks out and we've exhausted all efforts to retain him.

The idea that he has not (paraphrasing) taken the "next step" into top 50 all time, when he is already acknowledged as the most dominant player of his era, and is playing better than he ever has, is so blinkered it really doesn't need to be talked about. Thankfully. We can all just sigh and roll our eyes and go back to talking about actual ball.

with the parity in the league now trading our 3 stars for the recent durant, george, sabonis, mitchell type packages that get a young star, competent starters and vast draft assets with a manageable cap would be how we could bounce back to where we were for another decade....and potentially very quickly. its a new league with this style and all the parity we now have. the value of 60 million dollar per year superstars has never been lower quite frankly

of course it would take a competent gm and a new coach for a bunch like that but it doesnt cross my mind wed be gauranteed some decade of hell. only hanging on too long to these guys would gaurantee that.

it all boils down to this playoffs for me. if we kick ass then shelve the whole idea. if were healthy but fail massively then burn it ALL down NOW is how im gonna feel. i hate watching this team like this and if i see it in the playoffs again i dont care if we have giannis or not im not gonna watch this **** anymore

[Dick Tate]

I dig that it all boils down to the playoffs but what is the massive failure line? The Doc Rivers Special? (2nd round game 7)

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I dig that it all boils down to the playoffs but what is the massive failure line? The Doc Rivers Special? (2nd round game 7)

if we cant get past the round of 8 then ugh. but honestly its probably more like just we'll know it when we see it.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

and for the guys who use fg%, rebounding, and other old school measures to build a case around the bobby portis or greg monroe types..... let me also add that NOBODY..... EVER.... has suggested trading giannis because hes lazy. thats just making stuff up

have we mentioned iq and a commitment to fundamentals? well then sure.

but not a guy ive seen would describe him as lazy

[jakecronus8]

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[-Jragon-]

I disagree that the Bucks are legit contenders this year. Too much turnover in players and coaching. This team has individual talent, but is not a talented team. I just want them to build for next year and hope that Dame doesn't ask to be traded.

We were 2nd in the league BEFORE the coaching change... I'm assuming we're learning new termonolgy and Sht and with no practices we're using regular season like preseason right now.. go get a massage and relax man and let it come together. Not a contender... Fck.. put Giannis on any team and they are a contender geez

[CharityStripe34]

Trying to be "cool" by claiming Giannis is somehow past his prime and we should think about trading him is amusing.

its a message board. this has nothing to do with being cool to suggest what he said anymore then disagreeing with it and mocking somebody personally over it in the strongest terms makes you cool.

but practically, and dealing giannis right now absolutely isnt.... then even if we were horst it has to weigh into your thinking in the back of your mind what the future holds and what his value is. hes the greatest asset the franchise has ever had and if its not translating to winning and all the moves you make around him are supposed to work on paper but they dont.... and every new coach seems to backfire into a new low.....then what? then at what point do you consider it and perhaps consider it on our terms not his?

i think posing the question, as i have from time to time.....in a setting like this.... is natural.

and maybe keeping him forever unless he demands out regardless is the right move too. i wont deny that obviously and may even lean heavily towards it quite frankly. that is always ignored when i bring it up. but im not 100% and i never will be.

anyway maybe on this forum the suggestion will always be a no go but on the general board it would draw a fine discussion among the level heads. here i think it could be an even better discussion but again... youd have to be level headed and understand what the premise is. responses like "trade giannis youre nuts!"... accomplish little. its all that hypothetical that im sure horst even considers from time to time as all gms would with their guys.

It wasn't "mocking" so much as tongue-in-cheek. There have been a lot of overreactions, which is understandable given the team's recent slump. The sad part is that Gianni's been just as awesome as ever, even if he's sacrificed about 35% of his defense to keep the offense afloat. In the few instances this team has taken the court without him, they look atrocious. Do I wish his FT% and mid-range game were more polished and a consistent part of his game? Of course. Does he make some boneheaded plays every so often? Yes. I've also seen too much brilliance to harp on those things. Especially when other members of the roster look like cadavers when they step onto the court (at times).

Once you get distanced from the ugly losses recently, you can see that when the "Big Four" are on the court (Freak/Dame/Khris/Brook), they're really good and have a great net rating. Either with Beasley or even Crowder. It's the bench that has been hot garbage unfortunately and can't sustain even net-neutral play. Besides Freak, this season will go as Dame & Khris go, IMO. If Dame can be a Top 15 player during the playoffs, and Khris can be Khash, we have a chance against any squad. We shall see.

[theFireBlanket]

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Maybe Marjon's pissed about the DNP & thought he'd impact a game where they got outhustled?