Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Bucks deny Pistons to talk to Horst

[pifhluk23]

Horst is leaving. When the org overrides you on 2 coaches and then the team massively fails...He's going to get the blame or he can just go back to his home to a team with 0 expectations? Yeah he's gone, good job Bucks. Blow this **** up while we still have Horst making the transactions and pray we can find someone that can draft.

[-Jragon-]

As far as the GA / Dame combo, fundamentally it should work but it does need coaching so that GA can keep catching in different spots while still being effective. Their size and abilities are so different and that's a benefit. The teams struggling to make their "multiple stars" lineups work have all guys that play the same position and have the same strengths. Dame and GA need solid coaching and the right role players around them. Those role players have to offer some combo of defense/shooting/slashing/hustle/rebounding ... we have too many duds right now that like to just watch stuff. Bev and AJG are nice but you're asking a lot to have 6'1 guys cover other teams 6'5 and taller guys. AJJ seems to have it but we sat him for 3 months. Bev/Crowder/Beas/Pat C... just too many weaknesses or pube games -- even KM who, more often that not, his strengths and super amazing plays don't positively outweigh his rookie-type turnovers or traffic cone D (especially on his 5-16 shooting days.)

[fansinceforever]

I'd love to hear how we patch the obvious holes on this team without trading Dame or Middleton.

Bobby, Brook, Pat C and late 1st Rd pick aren't gonna have the phone ringing off the hook. That's just reality.

[GiannisAnte34]

is there a way we can build a super team around Giannis, Dame, and KD next year

[ShootingtheJ]

People can bitch about "age" all you want. If you can convince Phoenix to do KD for Khris/Brook, I'm doing that in a heartbeat. If you wanna add a couple young guys that'll probably suck anyways, you already have picks 23 and 33 to do that.

No way the Suns do this. Nurkic is as good as Brook.

Guy sporting a 7/8/2 stat-line on 47% TS in a clean sweep. Sure, dude. Nurkic is slower Bobby without the green light.

Sure, but have you seen what Turner has done to Brook in this series?

Nurkic is better offensively than the bad performance in that series, but the Suns lack of offensive scheme is part of that.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

I'd like to simplify this. If the Bucks were healthy, they would be competing for a championship. Nothing else matters.

So then the question is how can they stay healthy:

1) Have serious discussions with Giannis about limiting his attack mode during the regular season and working on his down low game. I really disagree with those who say he can't do that. He already does it in an elite manner, but not nearly enough. This should be the number one priority.

2) Limit KM to about 30 minutes a game and the same with Dame, ramping up near the playoffs

I would not blow this up and would not trade KM or Dame unless getting blown away with an offer.

Put Crowder and PC near the end of the bench, cut them or trade them.

Play AJJ and AJ 20 minutes a game or more until they prove they can't hack it. Even give Marjon a try.

That's it. No need to continue the trade thread. You have your road map above AND it's exactly what Horst will do if he is still around, which I think he should be.

This is where I'm at as well.

[DingleJerry]

Throw in Nurkic's age/contract and he should have higher trade value than Brook even if you think Brook is technically a better play next year. I guess a thing to note in such a trade discussion is Jurkic's experience playing with Dame. There's probably something that could work with him coming back too

[-Jragon-]

I'd love to hear how we patch the obvious holes on this team without trading Dame or Middleton.

Bobby, Brook, Pat C and late 1st Rd pick aren't gonna have the phone ringing off the hook. That's just reality.

I'm open to trading KM. But assuming we can't/won't; here's what we'd probably be able to do:

We need ROLE players and backups around Dame/KM/Brook/GA players that all give you defense and some proper combo of shooting/hustle/rebounding/slashing.. who fits that that we have?

Keep:
Pat Bev, AJG, AJJ and anyone else we don't think will develop

Trade bait or let walk:
Bobby/Pat C/Beas/Crowder/MB and whoever else we don't think will develop.

Packages:
Bobby and MB packaged could net some super role player
Pat C and a second rounder
Beas and a second
Etc - maybe someone will give youth for those vet plus a 2nd type of packages

Sign:
Try to find more Bev/AJG/AJJ type guys and sign them with any extra MLE or exception money
(I don't really know our cap situation going into next year but we always seem to be able to sign 1 or 2 guys so don't get slow old ones)

[Ron Swanson]

Throw in Nurkic's age/contract and he should have higher trade value than Brook even if you think Brook is technically a better play next year. I guess a thing to note in such a trade discussion is Jurkic's experience playing with Dame. There's probably something that could work with him coming back too

Like, what are you guys talking about? Nurkic is legit one of the worst contracts in the league no matter how you wanna spin this. Brook even at 36-years old is still more useful than Nurk will ever be and simply being on an expiring makes him much more valuable as a trade chip.

[ABucksFan]

Mark my words, Doc will be our new GM. Doc probably can read what's going on, he has owners favor and with Horst going out he'll fall upwards.

[DingleJerry]

Throw in Nurkic's age/contract and he should have higher trade value than Brook even if you think Brook is technically a better play next year. I guess a thing to note in such a trade discussion is Jurkic's experience playing with Dame. There's probably something that could work with him coming back too

Like, what are you guys talking about? Nurkic is legit one of the worst contracts in the league no matter how you wanna spin this. Brook even at 36-years old is still more useful than Nurk will ever be and simply being on an expiring makes him much more valuable as a trade chip.

What are you talking about? He has like 2/35 left on is deal, look around the league if you think that's one of the worst contracts in the league.

You have it in your head Nurkic sucks when he doesn't. He's been a consistent 10/10 guy willing to do the dirty work. Competent NBA starter and at least backup who can play 20-25 mins a game. Just played a fully healthy season and is only 29 years old. Sure I'd rather have him at 10 mil than 17 or whatever but that's the nba. When teams stop paying guy like him 15 mil a year or more we can say its a 'worst contract in the league'. Look at guys like Zubac, Adams, there's people in this same skillset/level with similar deals all over We just gave a 37ish year old 25 mil per year.

And yes for some teams that are clearing salary cap Brook could be more valuable. A team like PHX likely would rather have the younger guy since they're close to the same level of player. Can play him while younger or trade him later when something comes up. A team like them and many other don't want to lose the salary slot next year.

[German Athens]

I wanted Kenny during the season, but that article is just more Doc slander. I don’t buy it.

The “he didn’t play the young guys until it was too late” is nonsense. In a tied 1-1 series, Dre played more minutes than anyone else on the bench. In game 4 he played the fourth most minutes. It’s hard to scale up Dre’s minutes much more because he gets in foul trouble quickly, but even still Doc is playing him.

Doc has also had a really short leash on Beasley, Crowder, and Pat. He’s searching for guys who can play in any given game, and he isn’t approaching it poorly.

He didn't intend to play AJJ. Bucks were down 17 in the blink of an eye in Game 3 so Doc went into flinging-sh*t-at-the-wall mode. And AJJ, despite helping to flip the early script, didn't see the floor in crunch time, even though everyone else was gassed and his energy, athleticism, and ability to come up with the 50/50 balls was sorely needed to secure a single defensive round.

Giannis and Dame were OUT for game 4, Bobby got booted in the 1st quarter, and AJJ still wasn't on the court in crunch time despite having a really nice overall game. Doc's approach has been completely and embarrassingly reactive.

I agree with a lot of this, even if I think he’s played Dre more minutes than his available wing counterparts and with that is being unfairly ripped on for not playing Dre or the young guys enough, but my point is a little less about Doc. This article is Horst spin, attempting to absolve him of any wrong doing.

I agree that Doc should have stuck with Dre in game 3 - it was a mistake, much like Bud not playing Jevon against Boston even after seeing him give Jaylen brown issues in the first game.

Bud also struggled to play young guys or stick with the hot hand in favor of more trusted vets. This isn’t me attempting to say that since Bud made similar mistakes, therefore they’re both great. It’s more that, and I think I’m siding with GOS here, it’s overstated.

I think most coaches would be down in this series, including bud, given the same circumstances, but we have bigger problems elsewhere.

For years we’ve struggled with defensive versatility in our front court, and we’re paying our bigs outside Giannis 36M who can’t even play together on the court. We have relied upon Giannis as a cure-all, but there’s no reason other versatile defensive pieces wouldn’t work well alongside Giannis.

That’s a problem, and it has been for years.

We also struggle to play with quickness on the perimeter, whether that’s beating a man off the bounce, or cutting into space.

That’s a problem, and it has been for years.

Both of those things are predominantly Horst’s issues, but this piece certainly won’t frame it that way.

[ReasonablySober]

That Horst leak is something, man. (I absolutely believe it)

[paulpressey25]

That Horst leak is something, man. (I absolutely believe it)

Horst is gone to Detroit. That much seems clear.

[Profound23]

Whatever we do, please bring back Pat Bev and play AJJ more next year.

[theFireBlanket]

Mark my words, Doc will be our new GM. Doc probably can read what's going on, he has owners favor and with Horst going out he'll fall upwards.

He didn't see what happened to get Bobby ejected last night. Didn't want to give his real opinion of what happened, sounds like GM/Coach in the making.

[Ron Swanson]

I have it in my head that "Nurkic sucks" because we just witnessed him get completely annihilated in a 1st round playoff series vs. a team that didn't even need to go small, while also being a negative asset last offseason that had to be folded into the Dame trade just so Portland could get off his contract. What teams out there would look at that and be like, "Yeah, sign me up" and gladly take on his contract without an asset attached, i.e. view him as even neutral value? Nurkic is actually what every single anti-Brook guy thinks Brook is.

[Bernman]

Jimmy Haslam running the Bucks just like he runs the Browns. None of us should be surprised.

I'm the last proponent of the owners running the show, if true.

That said, this is an ironic critique, cuz the Browns made the playoffs & had coach of the yr, while his other team the Columbus Crew won their (2nd) title w/ a coach who should have won the same award. Both were up and comer types. So I guess I wish he'd run it like his other teams, in this regard.

The reality is, Horst was around long before Haslam. And he had the tendency to make the teams excessively old for 5 seasons. The Griffin hire was clearly influenced by Giannis. We see how terrible of a GM he is at all-star weekend.

IDK about the Doc hire, but Atkinson was technically under contract. Might just be p.r. spin by Horst to get another gig, cuz he's insecure he'd land on his feet otherwise. This was a guy who was probably originally hired to be a pushover by an openly meddlesome owner in Lasry. It's not clear what he's good at, yet.

[Profound23]

That Horst leak is something, man. (I absolutely believe it)

Horst is gone to Detroit. That much seems clear.

As soon as he gets there, see how many picks he will give for Khris.


Khris/Lopez for Cade/Duren and four first round picks....cmon Horst help us out.

[SupremeHustle]

Mark my words, Doc will be our new GM. Doc probably can read what's going on, he has owners favor and with Horst going out he'll fall upwards.

Doc to the front office, Joerger to head coach?