PG Pacers Game 4 - Loss

[fan230]

I just read an interesting article from where I learned quite a few things: some reinforced what I thought and some was new to me.

Horst’s power with the bucks is decreasing. He wanted Nurse and we got Griffin. Later he wanted Atkinson And we got Doc Because the owners wanted Doc.

I did not want nurse because he tends to play his star players to the ground. The article talk about how he played Embiid for 44 minutes and he was almost dead with exhaustion in the last game.

The article confirmed what we all knew, that Doc relies heavily on his veterans And ignore younger players. This obviously means heavy minutes for veterans.

Heavy minutes are not what our old players can handle Without getting injured.

Philadelphia has tons of cap room and we have nothing like that.

I think we should bring back our big 4, and work on modifying The rest of our roster. And we need a coach who can load manage. This is super important the Load management that is. Otherwise, we have another season of injuries. Long time ago someone in the forum had mentioned that Atkinson is more like bud. If so, he would be a good candidate for consideration at least for next year. Of course we cannot get Bud.

We cannot afford another season with our big 3 hurt for long periods and during the playoffs. We usually need a coach who can load manage else. The next season will be doomed by injuries also.

[fan230]

I mean we need a coach who can coach well and very importantly load manage our veterans who are our stars. Bud for sure or Atkinson perhaps, comes to mind.

[Bernman]

I think this series has demonstrated that, when the games matter, the Bucks are still a good team w/out Giannis, and even respectable sans Dame too. Because Indy are a good (not great) team and bad match-up. But we'd have been up 2-1 or 3-0 w/out additional injuries to Dame & Khris. And even hung with them on the road when they were lights out, while Khris & Bev were playing additionally hobbled.

Dame coasted in the regular season but returned to playoff star. Khris is an all-star & playoff star. Brook was the all-time leading scorer for the Nets and can still work in the post if that's what's required. That's a lot of ammo. Replacing playoff choker Jrue Holiday, w/ Dame, this team had a lot of margin for error. But their bodies just failed them that much. Which we couldn't afford with such a small championship window.

At this point, we should cut our losses. Giannis and Dame should not be coming back risking re-injury down 3-1. The Bucks need to steal 1 at home, maybe on the road too, w/out them, to justify their return. I especially think Dame should be babied because that's been reported, at times, as a direct achilles strain. That's heightened risk of catastrophic injury. And it's going to hurt you worse long-term than Giannis because of differences in age. Dame would become a dead asset. Giannis would retain most of his for us & others.

[-Jragon-]

We look sloppy without Dame.. like really unorganized

[DingleJerry]

We look sloppy without Dame.. like really unorganized

They have no one who can handle the ball. It's not surprising at all to look this disorganized. The D can belly everyone up and no one can dribble by it. Next thing you know you're down to like 8 seconds on the clock before you've even been able to run a play/set

[-Jragon-]

We look sloppy without Dame.. like really unorganized

They have no one who can handle the ball. It's not surprising at all to look this disorganized. The D can belly everyone up and no one can dribble by it. Next thing you know you're down to like 8 seconds on the clock before you've even been able to run a play/set

Makes sense.. I know that's why we grabbed Payne but he can't get off the bench in Philly even so that was a good trade.

[-Jragon-]

I mean we need a coach who can coach well and very importantly load manage our veterans who are our stars. Bud for sure or Atkinson perhaps, comes to mind.

Good point. If we could combine Doc and Bud into 1 person -- winner

[-Jragon-]

It only took me like 20 years, but I'm almost to 6000 posts. Someone argue with me about KM or something so I can get up there lmao jk

[Fotis St]

I think this board cares more about winning another ring than the actual players. Giannis stopped improving as a player, stopped his mid range game, his FT routine worse than ever, he just went back to 19 year old dunking everything dude. So if someone wants to show me his "improved" stats, I am not sure he even watches games and understands what kind of shots Giannis takes. Attacking the rim in every possesion at his current health status was a time bomb set to explode ... unfortunately it boomed right before the playoffs.

Brook needs to go ... I am not watching a single Bucks game next season unless we replace Brook with a young athletic 6'10 dude. I don't even care if he is a rookie.

I appreciate Khris "warrior" mentality but if there is a KD for Khris type of trade, I am pulling the trigger. Horst just let Siakam & Anunoby go somewhere else who were both would have been perfect us.

Anyway as I said in previous posts, I consider Khris not staying healthy as a reason Giannis is hurt at the playoffs. Giannis just tears himself up during the regular season. Lillard carried in the regular season too. So Khris on a no stress hero ball act in the playoffs does not erase his total absence during the regular season.

DeBud the team as soon as possible.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Crowder being washed has been an underrated factor. Bucks have wasted a ton of time wishing away his dead legs. If he was serviceable it would have been huge for us at both forward spots, alternatively, if they'd just given up on him straight away, there might have been a better contingency plan.

My first clue that Crowder was done was watching him in PHX. My second clue was when PHX said "Go home, bro. You're done."

3rd clue was when bud glued his ass to the bench on the brink of elimination with giannis hurt and we could have used him the most

[-Jragon-]

I think this board cares more about winning another ring than the actual players. Giannis stopped improving as a player, stopped his mid range game, his FT routine worse than ever, he just went back to 19 year old dunking everything dude. So if someone wants to show me his "improved" stats, I am not sure he even watches games and understands what kind of shots Giannis takes. Attacking the rim in every possesion at his current health status was a time bomb set to explode ... unfortunately it boomed right before the playoffs.

Brook needs to go ... I am not watching a single Bucks game next season unless we replace Brook with a young athletic 6'10 dude. I don't even care if he is a rookie.

I appreciate Khris "warrior" mentality but if there is a KD for Khris type of trade, I am pulling the trigger. Horst just let Siakam & Anunoby go somewhere else who were both would have been perfect us.

Anyway as I said in previous posts, I consider Khris not staying healthy as a reason Giannis is hurt at the playoffs. Giannis just tears himself up during the regular season. Lillard carried in the regular season too. So Khris on a no stress hero ball act in the playoffs does not erase his total absence during the regular season.

DeBud the team as soon as possible.

Good points about regular season Khris, but I do think Giannis neglected a lot of 'big man' game before this year being paired up with Dame. We needed him on the PnR (which was a knowledge gap he had to learn) and down on the block (his footwork on the block was better this year than ever) and he had an amazing year. He had to take a break from the jumper stuff to get his big man game going and help Dame and I respect that A LOT. It shows selflessness, maturity and willingness to adapt for the betterment of the team. I don't believe ALL guys were as willing to do that ahem...

[Fotis St]

I am sorry for pointing out our weaknesses BUT my "deBud the team" statement includes alot of our current flaws.
Bud's RANDOM basketball is the reason
Giannis never learned to pick and roll, to improve his post game, to fix his efing 15 second FT routine, Khris and Brook never improved anyhting, Khris handles , stamina... come on guys... ppl here are honest enough and posted alot of our flaws correctly even when we were the best record rs team in the league.

Brook is just old and slow, he should have been benched 2 years ago.

That ring just removed any motive from our core. I think we are more emotionally invested here than they are. They are millionaires now doing other things off court etc. It is obvious they don't put the extra effort and sacrifice to improve. I think they feel good retiring even tomorrow, they are playing to collect those fat checks, than actual winning a championship.

[DingleJerry]

I thought Giannis improved his decision making on O a lot this year. He's still not great the roll man part of PnR but he's better and clearly put in effort to adapt. At the same time his being the handler in it seemed about as good as its been if not better. Better passing, better decision making on avoiding charges/barreling into people, better shot selection taking fewer bad 3s. So I don't really see the knock on him. Only area I'd criticize is he's toned it down on D from being the freak he was to just being good now, I really can't even blame him on that as he ages. Its probably the right move to try and preserve himself, and even with doing that he still got hurt. So more taking it easy is probably necessary regular season, I'd assume he could ramp it back up easily on D come playoffs. But combine him trying less on D, Brook aging more, Dame and all wings being bad at D and it made for a tough combo though. Need to freshen up the stuff around them this offseason.

[-Jragon-]

Indeed... so what do you guys think the % chance is that Giannis plays? and Dame?

[Brewhoopfan]

Bless you guys for trying to evaluate or glean anything from these role guys when our two star players aren't out there, but I just can't. Andre looks like he belongs on an NBA court I guess?

Yeah, When you've lost your 2 players who can get the defense into rotation, the roles you're asking players to play offensively really don't exist. Spoelstra is the only coach who can scheme the defense into rotation; but everyone else relies on their stars. Carlisle bet correctly on Lopez and Middleton not having enough to beat them.

If we can't evaluate AJJ now, because of injuries, and the only time he consistently sees the floor is when multiple players are sitting or hurt, then when, exactly, would you say is the appropriate time to evaluate him? Summer League? No Giannis/Dame/Khris. Preseason? Same. Regular season mop up duty? Same. The organizational failure has been the refusal to give him a legitimate shot with the guys who are actually going to see the floor when it matters. I mean, even as late as last night we're still going back to the Jae well as if it wasn't plain as day MONTHS AGO that he's completely washed.

100% agree. Something just doesn't pass the smell test with AJJ. It's pretty obvious to see how he can contribute on the court simply on instincts. Is he a player that completely Fs up mentally in practice all the time? It just doesn't add up.

[-Jragon-]

Yeah, When you've lost your 2 players who can get the defense into rotation, the roles you're asking players to play offensively really don't exist. Spoelstra is the only coach who can scheme the defense into rotation; but everyone else relies on their stars. Carlisle bet correctly on Lopez and Middleton not having enough to beat them.

If we can't evaluate AJJ now, because of injuries, and the only time he consistently sees the floor is when multiple players are sitting or hurt, then when, exactly, would you say is the appropriate time to evaluate him? Summer League? No Giannis/Dame/Khris. Preseason? Same. Regular season mop up duty? Same. The organizational failure has been the refusal to give him a legitimate shot with the guys who are actually going to see the floor when it matters. I mean, even as late as last night we're still going back to the Jae well as if it wasn't plain as day MONTHS AGO that he's completely washed.

100% agree. Something just doesn't pass the smell test with AJJ. It's pretty obvious to see how he can contribute on the court simply on instincts. Is he a player that completely Fs up mentally in practice all the time? It just doesn't add up.

Because when Doc came, it was the spot in the schedules where it's just film room, shoot around and walk throughs. I'm sure them old vets can look good in some shooting drills when they don't have to run up and down the floor. Before the playoffs they had like a week to get their conditioning so they were running basically old guys vs young guys and could probably barely beat them, thus showing Doc the value of AJJ --- just putting 2 and 2 together idrk

[RogerMurdock]

Khris handles , stamina... come on guys...

Did you watch the last couple playoff games? Don't see how anyone can question his stamina.

[-Jragon-]

Khris handles , stamina... come on guys...

Did you watch the last couple playoff games? Don't see how anyone can question his stamina.

Because of several shots late by Indy where KM just stops and watches them shoot... forum guys would attribute that to his conditioning in hopes that mentally he wishes he took 2 more steps and challenged the shot but his legs were to tired to actually do so.

[Fotis St]

Khris handles , stamina... come on guys...

Did you watch the last couple playoff games? Don't see how anyone can question his stamina.

Yes and Me

[-Jragon-]

Some of it is still confusion for some reason.. it doesn't seem like the wing guys always know when they have help underneath and have to stop and go get MIles. There were a couple plays where it look like MIdds thought he had help and they just went straight around him for a layup with noone there. A whole F##king season and vets couldn't figure out how to defend a straight line drive.