PG Indy Game 6 - Loss

[DingleJerry]

We've talked about it before but almost all teams have a poor defender lead G type and they win. The team that just beat us has one. The key is the players around them rather than expecting a guy to do everything. Yea Dame is poor at D, but he showed late in games and in playoffs that he has it in him when needed to be ok/fine but he can't do it 40 mins a night all year. You have to get guys around him on the perimeter who can defend though, instead we had KM, Beaz, washed Jae, slow down Pat C. Those guys just don't even compare to modern athleticism/quickness on the perimeter. ETA: oh yea and since we play two big so much a guy like Bobby is out there on the perimeter too much too

[randy84]

I am confused why Portis' and Middleton's defenses get a pass but not Dame's?

[Ron Swanson]

Andrew Nembhard and TJ McConnell took turns sticking a knife in us.

10 points on 5/13 FGA
6 points on 2/6 FGA
7 points on 3/6 FGA
8 points on 4/11 FGA
6 points on 3/10 FGA

^^That's McConnell's game log this series (all except Game 2 with a negative +/-) before his 20-point, 9-assist, 4-steal explosion last night. I'm sure I don't have to state the obvious difference between Dame in Games 1-3 and Game 6....

Now do Nembhard. And compare his totals this series to the regular season.

You've got to deal with screens and switches on all these guys at the point of attack. If you want to say it was all the fault of the guy playing next to Dame, that's fine. But I think it doesn't match with the fact he sucked on defense much of the year, and quite a bit in Portland as well. We're going to have to expend real assets to find someone to make up for that. It's not a good position to be in for a coach.

Nah, you do Gabe Vincent and Jimmy on Jrue first

Nobody's saying Dame isn't a part of the defensive struggles. What you seem to be constantly implying is that it's some inescapable, championship killing flaw that will crater the entire team defense.

[ReasonablySober]

I am confused why Portis' and Middleton's defenses get a pass but not Dame's?

Haven't seen anyone give either a pass, especially Bobby.

[-Jragon-]

We've talked about it before but almost all teams have a poor defender lead G type and they win. The team that just beat us has one. The key is the players around them rather than expecting a guy to do everything. Yea Dame is poor at D, but he showed late in games and in playoffs that he has it in him when needed to be ok/fine but he can't do it 40 mins a night all year. You have to get guys around him on the perimeter who can defend though, instead we had KM, Beaz, washed Jae, slow down Pat C. Those guys just don't even compare to modern athleticism/quickness on the perimeter. ETA: oh yea and since we play two big so much a guy like Bobby is out there on the perimeter too much too

I wish there was a +2 button

[Perishable517]

Better to lose this way than on a Travis Best three at the buzzer.

My God, that made me sick.

Sent from my CPH2417 using RealGM mobile app

[randy84]

I am confused why Portis' and Middleton's defenses get a pass but not Dame's?

Haven't seen anyone give either a pass, especially Bobby.

Then why is Dame the one we have to get rid of because of his defense?

[ReasonablySober]

I am confused why Portis' and Middleton's defenses get a pass but not Dame's?

Haven't seen anyone give either a pass, especially Bobby.

Then why is Dame the one we have to get rid of because of his defense?

Not to speak for anyone else but my guess is people are moving Dame because he's the one with trade value.

Don't think Bobby gets you much of anything and Middleton has missed half the games the last two seasons. When he does play he only averages about 25 minutes a night.

Gotta give up something to get something.

[randy84]

Haven't seen anyone give either a pass, especially Bobby.

Then why is Dame the one we have to get rid of because of his defense?

Not to speak for anyone else but my guess is people are moving Dame because he's the one with trade value.

Don't think Bobby gets you much of anything and Middleton has missed half the games the last two seasons. When he does play he only averages about 25 minutes a night.

Gotta give up something to get something.

I would be curious to know who you are trading Dame for that is better than Dame.

[ReasonablySober]

Then why is Dame the one we have to get rid of because of his defense?

Not to speak for anyone else but my guess is people are moving Dame because he's the one with trade value.

Don't think Bobby gets you much of anything and Middleton has missed half the games the last two seasons. When he does play he only averages about 25 minutes a night.

Gotta give up something to get something.

I would be curious to know who you are trading Dame for that is better than Dame.

No idea who might be available. Maybe Riles decides to put Bam on the table for Dame?

What I'm more certain of is Khris and Brook will be worth more to the Bucks than they will be to other teams. I don't think trading either gets the Bucks closer to another title.

And forget about Bobby, Pat, Marjon, Ajax, or Green or a couple lousy picks in a bad draft. They're not getting the Bucks anything.

[Ron Swanson]

I don't think Brook, Bobby, and picks gets you a huge haul or anything. What I'd disagree with people on is this idea that getting decent 4-8 roster spot type dudes require you to sacrifice your second best player to acquire.

[Prez]

I just don’t buy the idea that a guy like Bobby has no trade value. I think he’s an empty stats dude that we gotta move on from, but there’s easily gonna be teams out there that would talk themselves into his skill set on paper and box score numbers. Definitely think Brook could get you something as well.

Pat, sure, you’re not getting anything there.

[GoldenAntlers]

I find it kinda hard to keep this "Dame's horrid defense cancels out his offense" narrative going when Haliburton put up a whopping 16/9/5 stat-line on 54% TS and was largely kept in check all series. If we wanna bitch about Dame not being "switchable" and getting swallowed up trying to defend Siakam/Turner in the post, well, yeah no ****. Need to find a way to scheme around that.

Dame played soft on D but the difference is that he has quick feet still and was willing to at least jump at a shooter. Playoff Dame isn't a difference maker on D but he's not much of a liability either.

I want #"s on how many charges he attempted to take in the playoffs. It was a good handful. More than is required to not be soft.

[GoldenAntlers]

I don't think Brook, Bobby, and picks gets you a huge haul or anything. What I'd disagree with people on is this idea that getting decent 4-8 roster spot type dudes require you to sacrifice your second best player to acquire.

Bingo.

[-Jragon-]

I find it kinda hard to keep this "Dame's horrid defense cancels out his offense" narrative going when Haliburton put up a whopping 16/9/5 stat-line on 54% TS and was largely kept in check all series. If we wanna bitch about Dame not being "switchable" and getting swallowed up trying to defend Siakam/Turner in the post, well, yeah no ****. Need to find a way to scheme around that.

Dame played soft on D but the difference is that he has quick feet still and was willing to at least jump at a shooter. Playoff Dame isn't a difference maker on D but he's not much of a liability either.

I want #"s on how many charges he attempted to take in the playoffs. It was a good handful. More than is required to not be soft.

Right.. I'm agreeing he's not a liability ..he uses his quick feet and stays near his guy at least.. then tries some gamble move like that or go for a steal. Mids and Bobby try the gamble steals too but can't stay with their guy often enough.

[theFireBlanket]

Khris was mostly solid on d on that series.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't think Brook, Bobby, and picks gets you a huge haul or anything. What I'd disagree with people on is this idea that getting decent 4-8 roster spot type dudes require you to sacrifice your second best player to acquire.

How are you getting decent 4-8 roster spot dudes? If you're not giving up guys 1-3, you have to convince other teams that your 4-8 are worth more to them than their 4-8. That would be easier if you have picks to sweeten the deal, but the Bucks don't. Their picks are given away or buried in swaps.

I don't know what teams are looking at Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez and thinking those guys are the missing pieces, and that they're going to give the Bucks athletic younger guys who can shoot in return.

[theFireBlanket]

Bobby for Steven Adams?

[Ron Swanson]

I don't think Brook, Bobby, and picks gets you a huge haul or anything. What I'd disagree with people on is this idea that getting decent 4-8 roster spot type dudes require you to sacrifice your second best player to acquire.

How are you getting decent 4-8 roster spot dudes? If you're not giving up guys 1-3, you have to convince other teams that your 4-8 are worth more to them than their 4-8. That would be easier if you have picks to sweeten the deal, but the Bucks don't. Their picks are given away or buried in swaps.

I don't know what teams are looking at Bobby Portis and Brook Lopez and thinking those guys are the missing pieces, and that they're going to give the Bucks athletic younger guys who can shoot in return.

Idk, just look at these 4-8 roster spots of other contending teams and ask yourself what they actually invested in those players. Horst found 3 of those guys in one offseason (Pat, Brook, Donte) using nothing but a mid-1st and minimum salary exceptions. Hell, look at last year's champions.

Bruce Brown (1-year taxpayer MLE)
KCP (salary filler trade)
Reggie Jackson (buyout guy)
Christian Braun (late 1st round pick)

Turning Brook, Bobby, and a 1st round pick into some combination of 2-3 better fitting role-players around Dame/Giannis shouldn't be some monumental task. Should honestly be the easiest job in the league to build around those 2 dudes.

[fan230]

We may want to look for a youngish sg who is a strong defender and is decent on offense. He would start with Dame. This would strengthen our poa defense in the starting lineup.

We have to bring back the big 4 for the coming year. Manage the rest of the team such that there is agility in the bench.

Hard to lose Bobby is my instinct. He is versatile in offense. Needs good coaching to strengthen his defense.