PG Indy Game 6 - Loss

[Ron Swanson]

Anyone saying we'd be better this season with Jrue and Grayson obviously did not watch Jrue or Grayson in these playoffs.

The point is this. We blew our wad on Dame. And frankly what we got was Harden (I like Steger’s comp there) versus Steph.

You can say “yes, I want Harden more than Grayson and Jrue” and that’s fine. But it belies the fact we also traded three full years of our draft, at a time when Giannis will be 34 years old. Those swaps and pick had tremendous value. Those assets could have been used in a different trade.

I don’t fault the Dame trade. Seemed like a great idea at the time. But it didn’t work.

An actual non-toxic, ultra-competitor version of Harden is basically the exact kind of co-star you want next to Giannis. And it certainly "worked"to the tune of us having statistically the best lineups in the league built around those two. Playing zero playoff minutes together and immediately declaring the pairing a failure is pretty wild.

[fansinceforever]

The sun has set on this group's championship hopes. This group doesn't change meaningfully unless you decide to trade one of Dame or Middleton.That's really it.

Maybe some of you believe this group still has it in them or that they can improve significantly on the margins by moving Brook/Bobby/Pat/etc.

I think that's a major stretch.

[PG Graveyard]

Giannis would have scored so many points against these guys. He may have broken Jerry West’s per game average of 46.3 if the games were close enough.

[Siefer]

It feels like this season was defined by panic. Firing Bud, then picking a guy they knew wasn't right to try to appease Giannis. Ownership bringing in Doc mid-season instead of Atkinson. Giannis trying to play on a bad calf/achilles. And then Doc tightening up like he always does, and playing bum vets over young guys that actually showed something like he always does.

No stability, no confidence, no composure.

[-Jragon-]

Anyone saying we'd be better this season with Jrue and Grayson obviously did not watch Jrue or Grayson in these playoffs.

The point is this. We blew our wad on Dame. And frankly what we got was Harden (I like Steger’s comp there) versus Steph.

You can say “yes, I want Harden more than Grayson and Jrue” and that’s fine. But it belies the fact we also traded three full years of our draft, at a time when Giannis will be 34 years old. Those swaps and pick had tremendous value. Those assets could have been used in a different trade.

I don’t fault the Dame trade. Seemed like a great idea at the time. But it didn’t work.

When we made the trade though it was with the playoffs in mind... Dame did wayyyy more than Jrue and Allen combined in the playoffs. Comparing the regular season is irrelevant to the build of our team talent-wise since we knew we would make the playoffs.

The question is: how do we build around Dame and Giannis correctly in order to win next year. Dame and GA are the future hall of famers. I don't think that answer is known until we see the rest of the playoffs and see who wins most and how -- so we can combat that.

First -- most obvious so far is to decrease our age and increase our speed.

Second -- most obvious is make sure everyone can play defense close enough to the shooters so they can't just be wide open but also have some lateral ability to change their path to the hoop so help can arrive and trap.

This is how we lost the last 3 years... Moving on from Brook, Bobby and Midds on favor of guys who fit the above description seems like it would be the right direction. Bev (going back to philly I bet), AJG, AJJ, Liv, maybe playoff Pat.. that's the only guys that fit in on our current roster. Time to upgrade.

[theFireBlanket]

Why wasn't James Johnson ejected?

[theFireBlanket]

(Re)Watching Malik's matador ball watching, no fight defense on just Tyrese in the first half.... Cmon Doc. Obvious decision.

[RiotPunch]

It feels like this season was defined by panic. Firing Bud, then picking a guy they knew wasn't right to try to appease Giannis. Ownership bringing in Doc mid-season instead of Atkinson. Giannis trying to play on a bad calf/achilles. And then Doc tightened up like he always does, and playing bum vets over young guys that actually showed something like he always does.

No stability, no confidence, no composure.

I think (based on what I've heard):

Giannis wanted Bud out even before the Heat series, wanted to, "run the show." Other players had also tuned out Bud.

Ownership wanted Bud gone, too. Dating back to the Nets series. Horst was forced into a tough spot.

Horst wanted Atkinson, ownership wanted Nurse, Giannis wanted a former NBA player. Think Monty was the first choice, but too expensive. Next best was satisfying Giannis and ownership by taking Nurse's right hand man, who had a long NBA career, and interviewed well with Giannis.

Bone thrown to Horst by hiring on Stotts as the likely in-season successor, as he was behind the scenes working to get Dame.

They were ready to fire Griff by Christmas, after the Stotts fiasco and the team being disorganized and morale low. Had to wait for Giannis to be on board.

Not sure Horst's opinion on Doc, but I think he was in lock-step with ownership in thinking he was the best available option at the time. Don't think Atkinson was an option mid-season.

Here we are. Hopefully this year humbled Giannis and ownership to not overstep basketball people making basketball decisions.

[Plossum]

The sun has set on this group's championship hopes. This group doesn't change meaningfully unless you decide to trade one of Dame or Middleton.That's really it.

Maybe some of you believe this group still has it in them or that they can improve significantly on the margins by moving Brook/Bobby/Pat/etc.

I think that's a major stretch.

I tend to think you’re right but it’s also frustrating that we now haven’t had a healthy playoff run since the title year in 2021. We don’t know what this group still has left in the tank but we’re def carrying some guys who are passed it.

I think it’s worth running it back with Giannis, Dame and Khris next year but need to stop hiring vet stiffs.

Maybe dangle Brook at OKC and see if we can get a young guy from their bench.

[fan230]

I think Giannis Khris match & understanding ate much stronger than those for Giannis Dame. Thus if they have to trade Dame or Khris, it would have to be Dame.

Khris is more injury prone but is a better match with Giannis.

We fired Bud. Got exactly the same result with Doc. 1st round exit in 6 games. How do we react?

[Sigra]

Hat's off to James Khristian Middleton man. What a **** warrior.

Nope. He rested a lot during regular season. If Giannis and Dame rested that much during 82 games they could also be warriors in 6 playoff games.

So, hat's off to Giannis and Dame who both played 73 regular season games averaging 35 minuted per game. They didnt rest and they put their health at risk playing injured. Without their heroic we wouldnt make playoffs. What a warriors.

Middleton played 55 games (27 minutes per gam) resting on back to backs. Not my herro.

[Sigra]

But I will tell you one thing. Actually 2 thing:

1. This regular season was interesting with more close games, more Giannis games, some Dame heroics. Regular seasons with Bud were really boring.

2. Bucks with Dame are great to play with in 2k24

[Sigra]

And one more thing (before you guys wake up), this team became contender when we added Lopez. He has been perfect C for Giannis as we know because he box out, protect paint and shoot 3s. All 3 of those things are extreamly important for Giannis to be Giannis.

Now, he is geting older and losing steps and I do think we need to find young C but that young C must do those 3 things that Lopez did for us. Protect paint, box out and hit 3s. Is there young C who do that? I would trade Dame, Midds and everything else (except Giannis offcourse) for that C because that is key for Giannis to be Giannis and we need Giannis ti be Giannis for us to be contenders in future.

[FAH1223]

And one more thing (before you guys wake up), this team became contender when we added Lopez. He has been perfect C for Giannis as we know because he box out, protect paint and shoot 3s. All 3 of those things are extreamly important for Giannis to be Giannis.

Now, he is geting older and losing steps and I do think we need to find young C but that young C must do those 3 things that Lopez did for us. Protect paint, box out and hit 3s. Is there young C who do that? I would trade Dame, Midds and everything else (except Giannis offcourse) for that C because that is key for Giannis to be Giannis and we need Giannis ti be Giannis for us to be contenders in future.

Young 7-footers who shoot 3s, box out, protect the paint dont grow on trees

Horst has his work cut out for him to find one of those with limited draft capital and being a luxury tax team.

[stellation]

Still dwelling on it. Such a bummer. Having a really tough time of it with a couple of things, had no idea how much of an emotional crutch I’d placed on us getting through this game to keep on fighting.

There’s always next year. I genuinely love interacting with you guys- thanks for making every run at it, no matter how, frustrating, enjoyable. Sport fandom is silly, but it’s great for the genuine emotional connection of community.

[tsamo]

Some stray thoughts from this series and season.

Bobby should not be proud of his double doubles anymore. We all knew, but this series showed even more that Bobby is more of a... Westbrook kind of rebounder. Most rebounds were empty and wide open for anyone but Bobby just sniped them out of the air. When it mattered, he could not rebound for ****.

Lopez for all the **** he's heard, is still a winning player. He's shooting the 3 well, can go inside(even if the whistle he gets is horrendous) and can defend but he needs someone to pair him with(see Giannis). All year long he's been stuck between a rock and a hard place, because the main defenders were, Dame, Beasley and Middleton. Something had to give.

Giannis needs to be better defensively when coming back. For how good he was offensively this year, he let a lot go defensively. Don't know if it was by design or he was tired or what but he needs to try hard again. Very interested to see how he'll play defensively in the Olympics.

Beasley was a great deal but he needs to be coached hard. More of what Doc did all series long and less what he did with him last night. If he's hitting great, if not he needs to be taken out of there. And no more main defender ****.

We need some young blood and fast. AJJ and Green should get way more time next year. Legit not sure what to do with Beauchamp. Seems to have the skills but lacks the mindset maybe?

Holiday and Grayson were not it, as showcased by the playoffs this year. Dame was the correct choice, even with all that have happened.

I would like to keep Pat Bev but apparently we are not going to be able to pay him and he'll probably leave.

Middleton is still one of the best players to have in the playoffs when healthy. Defensively he's not what he once was, but even then in the playoffs when locked in was slightly better.

Nick Nurse for all the clout he has, just lost to a injury riddled Knicks team, with a healthy 76ers team. While I would have preferred him over Griffin, I think he's about at the level of Rivers as a coach.

[JayMKE]

With Jrue or Grayson does the team lose in the 1st round in 6 or 5 games? There wasn’t any moral victory here that rectifies this nightmare of a season, they’re going to be even older and less flexible to change next year.

[Baddy Chuck]

Hat's off to James Khristian Middleton man. What a **** warrior.

Nope. He rested a lot during regular season. If Giannis and Dame rested that much during 82 games they could also be warriors in 6 playoff games.

So, hat's off to Giannis and Dame who both played 73 regular season games averaging 35 minuted per game. They didnt rest and they put their health at risk playing injured. Without their heroic we wouldnt make playoffs. What a warriors.

Middleton played 55 games (27 minutes per gam) resting on back to backs. Not my herro.

Unsurprisingly trash take from one of the least surprising people.

[JayMKE]

Indy shot well a couple game but was thoroughly unimpressive this series imo

Knicks should wipe the floor with them

[Coach Carter]

We’re never winning a title with Dame.

He’s like Big Dog twenty-five years earlier. He causes your defense to have too many breakdowns. You can’t hide him. Bill Simmons was correct back in October.

And yet I feel if Spoelstra had him, he'd find a way to hide him.