bulls fan here

yiyiyi · Post #41 » by **yiyiyi** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 2:52 pm

[quote="dflaschberger"]good points all

if only yi would be traded to Chicago . in my eyes , Chicago=bulls=Jordan=God

europa · Post #42 » by **europa** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 5:23 pm

Simulack wrote:IMO you are VASTLY overvaluing Redd. Look at what Ray Allen (older but always considered a better player than Redd by non-Bucks fans) went for last year: Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak and the rights to the #5 pick in this years draft.

Ray was 32 years old. If you want to compare the two more legitimately in my opinion, then look at what the Sonics acquired to get Ray when he was traded by the Bucks. Like Redd, Ray was 28 at the time and he brought back a proven second-tier player (Payton) and a young player regarded around the league as a player on the rise (Mason).

Now if the Bucks want to wait four years and trade Redd then the Ray trade would likely serve as a better barometer for what they could receive in return.

Post #43 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 5:45 pm

europa wrote:Now if the Bucks want to wait four years and trade Redd then the Ray trade would likely serve as a better barometer for what they could receive in return.

I don't think Ray is as good as Redd....or as desirable a trade piece at this stage.....

At the time of that deal, Ray had two-years left for a total of $28mm in salary. Redd's got 4-years and $66mm.

Ray was two-years removed from starring in the ECF. Redd's been a part of two tankfest teams.

Ray was in a Denzel movie and everybody loved him nationally....Redd is more quiet. Likable, but not a bankable star to the extent Ray was.

europa · Post #44 » by **europa** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 5:50 pm

I agree Ray was more bankable and I agree he was regarded more highly around the league then than Redd is now. But their production is very similar. Ray was averaging 21-5-4 at the time of his trade from Milwaukee. Redd is averaging 25-5-4. I don't think you can compare what the Sonics got for a Ray Allen who is 32 years old and on the downside of his career and say that's what the Bucks should get for a 28-year-old Michael Redd who is having easily the best all-around season of his career and whose game clearly isn't on the decline.

Post #45 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 6:11 pm

To be honest, I think the Sonics got more for Allen than we did.....

Few of us realized how crappy GP was when we got him....he's sorta like Shaq is today....not worth much. And Desmond is a nice player but he was the 17th pick in a not real strong draft. It seemed like a lot at the time....

It just comes down to who would view Redd as a key piece to their puzzle and is what they could sent to us in return worth it. i.e. the Cavs have nothing I want....at all. That's why these Bulls trade ideas keep floating...they do have some nice assets.

europa · Post #46 » by **europa** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 6:14 pm

I liked the trade at the time and still think it was the right move to make. It's not like Ray led the Sonics to anything more than what happened in Milwaukee after he left. If the Bucks could get a proven second-tier player and a young highly regarded player for Redd, I'd be all for the trade. Obviously, you hope to get better players than Payton and Dez turned out to be but I still maintain that's the model that needs to be followed since it's a strong one in my opinion.

Post #47 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 6:28 pm

J-rock on the MJS board has your trade for you Europa...I love it as well, but it probably won't happen.

Redd for Mike Miller and Mike Conley. Good vet and high value youth player.

If we needed to toss CV into it or take back Brian Cardinal we could add other players to make it more palatable to Memphis. I can't see Memphis doing it though....but I'd love that deal.

You'd have to sell Memphis that they can flourish with Gay, Redd, Gasol, Lowry and Navarro.

nwy2211 · Post #48 » by **nwy2211** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 6:32 pm

If Redd goes we need to get an unprotected first in next years draft from whatever team we trade him to (hopefully one that is lotto bound). If we then had two top 7 picks(assuming) our future would be very bright, especially with the talent in the 08 draft class. If that happened I would be more than willing to wait 2 years for development. It would be fun watching the players grow and we would hopefully be very competitive within 2-3 years. By the time their rookie deals are up Gadz and Simmons would be off the books, so we could then resign them. Core = Yi and 2 picks #1-7 from 08 draft.

europa · Post #49 » by **europa** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 6:32 pm

I don't think there's any way the Grizzlies would do that give how highly they value Conley. But I'd make that deal.

dflaschberger · Post #50 » by **dflaschberger** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:43 pm

i have offers in with the bulls' #1 (no protection)

Here are 2 options:
1. Wallace, noc, duhon and our #1 for Redd

2. Wallace, Noah, Noc and our #1 for Bogut and Simmons

europa · Post #51 » by **europa** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:48 pm

dflaschberger wrote:i have offers in with the bulls' #1 (no protection)

2. Wallace, Noah, Noc and our #1 for Bogut and Simmons

As much as I hate Wallace's contract and severely declining play, I'd sign off on this deal.

Simulack · Post #52 » by **Simulack** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:53 pm

dflaschberger wrote:i have offers in with the bulls' #1 (no protection)

Here are 2 options:
1. Wallace, noc, duhon and our #1 for Redd

2. Wallace, Noah, Noc and our #1 for Bogut and Simmons

Both of these deals fail to pass the trade checker because of the contracts involved.

dflaschberger · Post #53 » by **dflaschberger** » Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:32 pm

the 1st would need filler from Milw

the second should work?

Bernman · Post #54 » by **Bernman** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:01 pm

What about a deal like:

Chicago gets- Redd, Cassell, Villanueva, Voskuhl/Gadzuric
Milwaukee gets- Hinrich, Nocioni, J. Smith, Maggette
LAC gets- Mo Williams, Bell, Noah

Contracts are virtually even, though the trade checker said otherwise. Said only problem is Chicago, yet they have like 104 out, and 102 in (with Voskuhl). Don't get it.

Anyways, a deal like this would improve the Bucks' defense dramatically, as well as their offensive dynamic. No true #1, but I think that could work as a ballclub. Chicago gets a huge boost offensively, inside and out. Plus a guy with immense playoff experience and success in Sam Cassell. Clippers aren't going anywhere this year, and only give up two players with expirings, who won't help them achieve anything. In exchange they receive a long term answer at point guard to replace the aging Cassell and aging Livingston. Also get a prospect in Noah.

Bucks could then flip Simmons for one of the many overpaid backup centers w/ bulk in the league. Your trash is our treasure.

5 Bogut...Overpaid center...Gadzuric
4 Yi...J. Smith
3 Nocioni...D-Mase
2 Maggette...(D-Mase)
1 Hinrich...Sessions/Ivey