bulls fan here

[stellation]

I want no part of Ben Wallace. He's a total liability at this point and owed a lot of money.

I completely agree.

[europa]

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Actually, I forget who reported this, but supposedly the Bulls did offer Deng but Kobe vetoed the trade with his no-trade clause cuase he thought the Bulls wouldn't be good enough wtihout him to make it worth it.

The Bulls also declined to trade for Garnett last year because they didn't want to part with Deng. No way they trade him for Redd if they think he's more valuable than Kevin Garnett.

In the highly unlikely event that Redd is traded to Chicago, I'd demand that Hinrich has to be part of any deal. Other than Deng, he's the only player I'd want to bring back in a deal for Redd.

[skones]

bulls fan living in Milw. I see bucks going nowhere fast.

I'm sorry but am I the only one who found this ironic?

[Simulack]

best I would do for redd is wallace, duhon, noc and our #1 for Redd and Danny G or Simmons

Damn, you suggested this just a few days back:

bulls would love him-I know gordon wouldn't probably work for you, so how about TThomas or noah, thabo, our pick (no restrictions), duhon and Jsmith or PJ

Has Redd's trade value dropped that much in the last two days?

[dflaschberger]

I would make the 1st unprotected, with the wallace, duhon, noc package for danny or simmons and Redd

we don't need more young guys, so our #1 is not that needed. Wallace isn't playing too poorly-he's actually doing well for what he is-he is just way overpaid (like Redd, but more-of course).

Wallace duhon and noc would add to your toughness

finally-deng is not coming in a deal for redd or bogut

[Simulack]

finally-deng is not coming in a deal for redd or bogut

What about something like Redd for Nocioni, Thomas or Noah and filler? Too much for the Bulls to give up?

Also works with Gordon though IMO the difference between Redd Gordon isn't worth a former lottery pick like Thomas or Noah. I just throw it out there in case the Bulls would rather do that for whatever reason.

[skones]

I would make the 1st unprotected, with the wallace, duhon, noc package for danny or simmons and Redd

we don't need more young guys, so our #1 is not that needed. Wallace isn't playing too poorly-he's actually doing well for what he is-he is just way overpaid (like Redd, but more-of course).

Wallace duhon and noc would add to your toughness

finally-deng is not coming in a deal for redd or bogut

No way I take a Wallace, Duhon, and Nocioni packge for Simmons or DG and Redd. Wallace gives us absolutely nothing. He's not the player he once was, plain and simple. At this stage in their careers, Bogut is the better option, period. Duhon is a backup and Nocioni is a nice player. Getting rid of Bobby in that deal is redundant given how Wallace, like Bobby, is just a bad contract. I mean honestly, would you do a Redd for Nocioni and Duhon swap if YOU had Redd? I think not.

[Simulack]

Smith works as filler.

Nocioni, Joe Smith and Thomas (or Noah) for Redd.

It would be even better if Yi or Thomas could play some 3 since there is a bit of a logjam at the 4 spot. But since CV is not likely to be part of this team a year or two from now its not as big of an issue. Hell, include CV in this trade if that is what it takes to get it done.

[dflaschberger]

i figure, bucks need D badly-wallace plays good D still-Simmons looks useless to me

We all know Redd is very good but not great-does not have superstar talent but is paid superstar $. Wallace, noc and duhon add toughness-don't forget the bulls #1, no protection-could be the most valuable part of trade?

[Debit One]

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What about something like Redd for Nocioni, Thomas or Noah and filler? Too much for the Bulls to give up?

Also works with Gordon though IMO the difference between Redd Gordon isn't worth a former lottery pick like Thomas or Noah. I just throw it out there in case the Bulls would rather do that for whatever reason.

I'm far from a Michael Redd supporter, but I think that you're underestimating his value.

In a deal for Redd the Bulls need to give up at least two out of the Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni group, + one of their young bigs or a draft pick, or Deng plus one of their young bigs or a draft pick. If they want someone like CV, Simmons or Gadz they can be added.

[Simulack]

I'm far from a Michael Redd supporter, but I think that you're underestimating his value.

In a deal for Redd the Bulls need to give up at least two out of the Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni group, + one of their young bigs or a draft pick, or Deng plus one of their young bigs or a draft pick. If they want someone like CV, Simmons or Gadz they can be added.

IMO you are VASTLY overvaluing Redd. Look at what Ray Allen (older but always considered a better player than Redd by non-Bucks fans) went for last year: Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak and the rights to the #5 pick in this years draft.

The deal I propsed compares favorably with that. We are getting Thomas who, though disappointing (although you can argue he hasn't been given enough of a change in Chicago), was the #4 pick in 2006. He's considered to have more upside as a defensive player than an offensive player unlike many of the guys on our roster. We are also getting Nocioni who would be a massive upgrade from any SF on our roster. He's signed to a pretty reasonable contract and gives us the type of feisty defensive minded player we lack.

Deng plus one of their bigs or a draft pick? Please tell me you are kidding... there is no way in hell Chicago would even remotely consider such a deal. Deng has more trade value than anyone on our roster.

Thinking they are going to give up two of Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni AND Thomas/Noah is also utterly preposterous. Do you really think the difference between Redd and Ben Gordon is something like Hinrich and a lottery pick?:o

Nocioni, Thomas and Smith for Redd is more than fair. No chance we are getting anything like what you proposed.

[trwi7]

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I'm far from a Michael Redd supporter, but I think that you're underestimating his value.

In a deal for Redd the Bulls need to give up at least two out of the Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni group, + one of their young bigs or a draft pick, or Deng plus one of their young bigs or a draft pick. If they want someone like CV, Simmons or Gadz they can be added.

I think you're overestimating his value. Think of what Ray Allen got Seattle. A top draft pick (Thomas or Noah), a short contract to make salaries match (Szczerbiak) and a decent guard (West).

I don't think we can expect much more than that especially if we're going to try to dump one of our crap contracts off on them.

[Debit One]

Thinking they are going to give up two of Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni AND Thomas/Noah is also utterly preposterous. Do you really think the difference between Redd and Ben Gordon is something like Hinrich and a lottery pick?

Earlier in this thread I said that the following would be reasonable. I stand by that.

Maybe something like Redd + CV for Nocioni, Noah or Thomas, Gordon.

Forget about where Tyrus Thomas was drafted. The guy has shown nothing other than an ability to jump really high, and is the one guy on the Bulls who is getting zero PT under the new coach.

[Debit One]

Nocioni, Thomas and Smith for Redd is more than fair. No chance we are getting anything like what you proposed.

Well, I'd pass on that deal. It really doesn't do anything for us. Of course I don't place much value on Tyrus Thomas.

[Simulack]

Earlier in this thread I said that the following would be reasonable. I stand by that.

Maybe something like Redd + CV for Nocioni, Noah or Thomas, Gordon.

Forget about where Tyrus Thomas was drafted. The guy has shown nothing other than an ability to jump really high, and is the one guy on the Bulls who is getting zero PT under the new coach.

Noah>CV

Gordon and Nocioni>Redd

That deal is horrible for the Bulls. The difference between Redd and Gordon is not that great. Gordon's regressed a bit this year but that whole team is struggling. Last year he averaged 21/4/3 on a 2nd round playoff team - if he signs to a deal around 10 million a year, you might even be able to make the argument that he is going to be a better value than Redd given age/contract.

In regards to Thomas, no doubt he has been a disappointment. But I find it funny how quickly many here are to write off other young players who haven't been given much of an opportunity yet guys like Bogut keep getting a free pass and still have potential despite not improving much in 3 years in most facets of the game (I don't mean you necessarily, just a general attitude here). Thomas was drafted as a project so IMO its too early to judge him.

If you don't like him, swap him with Noah. It seems fair when compared t what the Sonics got for Allen. Smith also comes off the books after next season so it saves us some money.

[Debit One]

In regards to Thomas, no doubt he has been a disappointment. But I find it funny how quickly many here are to write off other young players who haven't been given much of an opportunity yet guys like Bogut keep getting a free pass and still have potential despite not improving much in 3 years in most facets of the game (I don't mean you necessarily, just a general attitude here). Thomas was drafted as a project so IMO its too early to judge him.

While Bogut is not producing as hoped, you can at least talk in terms of what he has accomplished or is producing. With Tyrus Thomas we have nothing ... absolutely nothing. What we do know is that his coaches appear to feel that Aaron Gray and Joakim Noah are as productive as Thomas.

[dflaschberger]

good points all

so, forget wallace
JSmith, noc, duhon and our #1 for redd and minimal filler

you get smith (can move CV), a good 3 man (move mason to 6th man) and a tought pg-plus our #1

Not sure how else to do it
MAYBE gordon and Noc, plus VK for Redd-but might be too much for us

[trwi7]

I'd do either deal you proposed.

[Simulack]

Smith, noc, duhon and our #1 for redd and minimal filler

I'd prefer Thomas or Noah over the #1 pick since I think with Redd the Bulls make the playoffs. As **** as there start has been, the Bulls are only 2 1/2 games from the eight seed.

With Tyrus Thomas we have nothing ... absolutely nothing. What we do know is that his coaches appear to feel that Aaron Gray and Joakim Noah are as productive as Thomas.

Thats fine, we obviously disagree on TT's value. If you don't like him, add Noah instead.

I'm in the camp that moving Redd in itself would be a positive in certain ways especially if we get cap relief: without him we end up with a higher lottery pick this year and free up more shots for our young guys. Add in two pieces of value in Nocioni and TT/Noah in areas where we are lacking (3 spot and defensive bigs) and I think this deal would be a step in the right direction for the Bucks.

[dflaschberger]

i might do Thomas, noc and duhon for Redd-plus VK for filler. Noah no, he's our future C

back to bogut-my first choice, what would it take?