dirk nowitzki

Post #41 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 6, 2008 10:58 pm

I think the guy they need to deal is Kidd. Try to acquire their Rondo, i.e. a young, somewhat competent PG that'll work his ass off on defense.

Actually, now that I think about it, a guy like Westbrook would make all the sense in the world for that team. He's the guy you sick on Deron Williams and Chris Paul for the next eight or nine years.

How they go about getting a top 10 pick is the tricky part. Josh Howard might do it.

Post #42 » by **paulpressey25** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:03 pm

DrugBust wrote:How they go about getting a top 10 pick is the tricky part. Josh Howard might do it.

Now we are talking. Bucks trade #7/Simmons for Howard.

El Duderino · Post #43 » by **El Duderino** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:24 pm

fam3381 wrote:I agree with Chap to some extent...this is far tougher for the Mavs than us.

Thinking about it a bit, I have a hard time seeing Cuban being able to pull the trigger on this kind of deal unless he's head over heels in love with Yi and thinks Redd is much better than we do. We've become kind of jaded about both, but I still don't know if they're enough.

Dirk hasn't been able to carry them in the playoffs the past two seasons, but they are bringing in a new coach and can also move Howard for some fresh talent as well. It's not like Dirk is a cancer or is demanding out or whatever. He's one of the best players in the game and I don't see them getting better by trading him.

Yep

If i was Cuban, i'd listen to offers for Dirk, but wouldn't consider at all any of the offers i've seen in this thread. I'd only trade Dirk for some just can't turn that down type of offer.

As for moving Dirk to the Bucks, Bogut would have to be included in any offer before i'd even bother to keep listening to Hammond.

Maybe if say Miami won the draft lottery and Cuban was listening to offers, something involving to first pick and Marion could make sense.

raferfenix · Post #44 » by **raferfenix** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:43 pm

People are looking at this in the wrong way---it wouldn't be Redd that would entice Cuban at all, it'd have to be Yi and our pick to a lesser extent.

I assume Cuban was more than aware of Del Harris' fascination with Yi, so it's not a long shot by any means that he'd be a big fan too. the businessman in Cuban also would have a hard time turning down the marketing potential of Yi if it does work, and I'm positive he'd be more than able to take advantage of having a billion new potential fans.

Furthermore, Jason Kidd could REALLY spur Yi's development in as vast a contrast to Mo Williams as you possibly could have. It'd be a great transition period for that team, where they get to spur the new guy's develpment as they older player walks off into the sunset (with his giant expiring contract). The Mavs also wouldn't necessarily be a horrible team either, as Redd did play very well with Kidd for team USA. Even if they aren't a playoff team that'd be ok as long as they can get the fans excited about the future.

El Duderino · Post #45 » by **El Duderino** » Tue May 6, 2008 11:57 pm

raferfenix wrote:People are looking at this in the wrong way---it wouldn't be Redd that would entice Cuban at all, it'd have to be Yi and our pick to a lesser extent.

That's not why i or others don't think Cuban would take that offer. My reason is if Cuban put Dirk up for sale, he'd get offers better than a very overpaid SG that does nothing else except score points, Yi, and the 7th pick in a not loaded draft.

mofobmo31 · Post #46 » by **mofobmo31** » Wed May 7, 2008 12:00 am

I would like to see a Redd/Howard trade. He doesnt have a bad contract to take on. I do not want Dirk. He is not a leader and you won't go anywhere with him. Yeah they made it to the Finals in '06 but he disappears in games and is a baby and complains about everything.

Balls2TheWalls · Post #47 » by **Balls2TheWalls** » Wed May 7, 2008 12:23 am

paulpressey25 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Now we are talking. Bucks trade #7/Simmons for Howard.

Drool.

What do we do with Redd/Mo then?

Nowak008 · Post #48 » by **Nowak008** » Wed May 7, 2008 12:30 am

Balls2TheWalls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Drool.

What do we do with Redd/Mo then?

Redd+Yi for Brand.

smauss · Post #49 » by **smauss** » Wed May 7, 2008 2:47 am

Balls2TheWalls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Drool.

What do we do with Redd/Mo then?

Nowak quote: "Redd+Yi for Brand."

Now that would be quite an offseason..........

europa · Post #50 » by **europa** » Wed May 7, 2008 3:39 am

Nowak008 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Redd+Yi for Brand.

My first Redd trade proposal. I still get a little misty-eyed seeing it.

worthlessBucks · Post #51 » by **worthlessBucks** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:02 am

paulpressey25 wrote:If Cuban can pull a Redd for Josh Howard, he may want to do that. I'm just pointing out that there are limited scenarios we could conjure up right now that make Dallas a serious contender again next season.

At some point you have to deal with the fact you've got an aging PG taking up $20mm of cap room. And no center of any worth. And no shooting guard of any worth. And all your draft picks are going to be in the #20 range where you hope you might luck out and get a Jason Maxiell but you aren't getting Brandon Roy.

For Dallas to get back up there, they'll need to blow up the team but retain Dirk, which means you'll suck and by the time your young guys get good, Dirk might be completely over the hill. There is no easy answer for Dallas right now.

It really makes you wonder why on Earth they traded for Kidd, any rational human being doesn't give up that much.

europa · Post #52 » by **europa** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:10 am

MFScho wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It really makes you wonder why on Earth they traded for Kidd

I think there were a bunch of reasons. Among them:

1. Avery was never a big fan of Harris as the starting PG. There was a school of thought that what the team needed was a strong leader and distributor at the PG position. Devin's game isn't really based on him being a strong creator.

2. Dirk's biggest flaw is he's not a take-charge guy in the clutch and there are questions about how mentally tough he is. Kidd has been a take-charge guy and he'd never been one to melt in the clutch. He was the anti-Dirk in a lot of ways and that appealed to the Mavs because they believed that Kidd could succeed where Dirk failed.

3. They wanted big-game experience. Kidd obviously has plenty of that.

On the surface, you could argue it was a move worth making but it clearly didn't work out the way they hoped. The people in this forum who argued that the Kidd trade was a lot like the Payton trade the Bucks made were absolutely correct in that regard. Kidd, like Payton, was acquired because his rep was strong in areas where his new team was weak. But Kidd, like Payton, had more rep than game when it mattered most for his new team.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #53 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:32 am

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think there were a bunch of reasons. Among them:

1. Avery was never a big fan of Harris as the starting PG. There was a school of thought that what the team needed was a strong leader and distributor at the PG position. Devin's game isn't really based on him being a strong creator.

2. Dirk's biggest flaw is he's not a take-charge guy in the clutch and there are questions about how mentally tough he is. Kidd has been a take-charge guy and he'd never been one to melt in the clutch. He was the anti-Dirk in a lot of ways and that appealed to the Mavs because they believed that Kidd could succeed where Dirk failed.

3. They wanted big-game experience. Kidd obviously has plenty of that.

On the surface, you could argue it was a move worth making but it clearly didn't work out the way they hoped. The people in this forum who argued that the Kidd trade was a lot like the Payton trade the Bucks made were absolutely correct in that regard. Kidd, like Payton, was acquired because his rep was strong in areas where his new team was weak. But Kidd, like Payton, had more rep than game when it mattered most for his new team.

OK here's my take on a few of these things

Dream: We got get Dirk b/c Cuban and/or Dirk are sick of the mediocrity they've been stuck in. We think we can get Dirk for Yi/#7/Simmons or Gadz......not going to happen, not yet

Ideally: We think we can get an MVP player for Redd/Yi. Dumping our underachieving star and picking up a primetime player....I don't think it will happen....but it might in the future

Reality: Cuban and Dirk are close. They both never believed in Avery after sometime and they both believe that Avery was not the right coach for Kidd and Dirk.

I don't think Avery really loved the Kidd trade, although he did agree Devin wasn't the answer. Avery just didn't adjust the offense for Kidd, which he should of done.

SO, Cubans answer is to bring in Rick Carlisle, who is a great mix of offense and defense. He's someone who Cuban and Dirk believe can open it up and run the right offense for Kidd.

Remember, Cuban wanted Kidd, badly. He's not going to give up on the success of Kidd and Dirk quite so easily.

Howard is the piece to be moved and the most realistic option is moving Redd for him. Redd fills a great need for that team and I think both parties, Redd and the Mavs, would be extremely excited to see if that could work.

BUT, the question I would like to ask is this.

If the Bucks get a #2 or #3 pick, basically Beasley or Mayo. Not Rose, because I wouldn't move him.

But if you could get Dirk for Yi and the #2 or #3 pick would you do it and try to win now in the weak east? For a player who was an MVP just a couple of years ago?

Yi/#2 or 3 plus a contract, Mo/Simmons/Gadz for Dirk?

I would in a heartbeat

europa · Post #54 » by **europa** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:37 am

I'd trade any player in this draft other than Rose to get Dirk.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #55 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:44 am

europa wrote:I'd trade any player in this draft other than Rose to get Dirk.

Yep, I agree as well.

Rose in my mind, right now, could be another Deron Williams/Chris Paul type player. As far as rookie/young point guard impact on a team.

Beasley/Mayo both look great, but both have a chance of busting or just not being ready for awhile.

I would move either one plus Yi to be able to acquire Dirk.

Thats the only thing that I think could really entice Cuban is if we get a Top 3 pick.

But like I said, I think Cuban and Dirk are looking forward to get another coach in there. Dirk had some not so nice parting words for Avery and even Don Nelson in the media recently.

So, I think they will give it another shot.

IF, they are horrible perhaps they will move Kidd and/or Dirk at the deadline.

If they are in the hunt, they'll probably play the year out.

If it's another one and done, perhaps Cuban blows it up and sells the team.

Then Dirk will be truly available.

europa · Post #56 » by **europa** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:50 am

I don't think Rose will be as good as Paul, but I do think he can get to Deron Williams' level - and that's obviously a pretty damn good level. I don't see anybody else in this draft with the upside to reach Dirk's level as a player.

But ultimately, I don't think Dirk is going anywhere. I agree with you that Cuban probably wants to give Dirk and Kidd more time together while adding a third prominent player ::coughMichaelReddcough:: to the mix.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #57 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:52 am

europa wrote:I don't think Rose will be as good as Paul, but I do think he can get to Deron Williams' level - and that's obviously a pretty damn good level. I don't see anybody else in this draft with the upside to reach Dirk's level as a player.

But ultimately, I don't think Dirk is going anywhere. I agree with you that Cuban probably wants to give Dirk and Kidd more time together while adding a third prominent player ::coughMichaelReddcough:: to the mix.

Yeah, what I'm basically saying is that wherever Rose goes, in my opinion, that team is getting significantly better quickly.

Adding a talented point guard has a history of doing that.

He's not the same level of Paul (since he is off the charts right now), but I think he can have a similar significantly positive impact wherever he goes.

europa · Post #58 » by **europa** » Wed May 7, 2008 4:55 am

Wrong thread.

Rockmaninoff · Post #59 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Wed May 7, 2008 12:14 pm

raferfenix wrote:People are looking at this in the wrong way---it wouldn't be Redd that would entice Cuban at all, it'd have to be Yi and our pick to a lesser extent.

Exactly.

This trade would be all about Yi. Yi would appeal to businessman and the basketball fan in Mark Cuban. It would be a new guy to hang his hopes and dreams upon. New hope for the fanbase. A guaranteed 4 games a season of Yi vs. Yao. The perfect replacement for Dirk Nowitzki.

Face it, the situation in Dallas has grown stale. How much is a new coach going to change that?

Anybody notice the dark circles around Dirk's eyes? The guy is obviously stressed from the pressure. This would be a way for Cuban to repay him for everything he has done. Give Dirk to a team and a fan base that has no expectations.

I honestly can't think of another team that would want to and could give a better package than Redd/Yi. Fagen and the Handlers (good band name) would have to absolutely love the idea of Yi in Dallas, doing the Texas two-step with Yao. Again, this is good for both teams.

The next step then, is to do whatever it takes to get Rudy Fernandez from Portland. Then, the international triumvirate is complete.

Post #60 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed May 7, 2008 12:22 pm

I like the idea of seeing if #7 and Simmons would get Josh Howard. Then I'd keep Redd. Do the old standby of Mo for Haslem. Sign Duhon. I'd be ok with that team going into next year.

I agree though with the sentiments above that Cuban will try another year with Dirk and Kidd. And he might want to add Redd to the mix to do that. So I'd also make the Redd-Howard deal.