06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation

SupremeHustle · Post #61 » by **SupremeHustle** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:58 pm

Memo rulez.

LUKE23 · Post #62 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:02 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3547

263 pounds.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mehmet_okur/

263 pounds.

Didn't ask me anything? This is a public forum.

Yi does not have the size to play center, especially on the defensive end. I mean, he had trouble with a lot of PF's on defense last year with regards to strength and holding position in the post, how is he going to be able to handle that vs. centers?

If anything Yi is a SF/PF. Just because he's 6-11/7 feet doesn't mean he's a F/C.

And also, there is absolutely zero guarantee or even likelihood that Love is better than Bogut anyway. Bogut is likely a 17/10/2 block type guy this year.

Rockmaninoff · Post #63 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:12 pm

LUKE23 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3547

263 pounds.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mehmet_okur/

263 pounds.

Didn't ask me anything? This is a public forum.

Yi does not have the size to play center, especially on the defensive end. I mean, he had trouble with a lot of PF's on defense last year with regards to strength and holding position in the post, how is he going to be able to handle that vs. centers?

If anything Yi is a SF/PF. Just because he's 6-11/7 feet doesn't mean he's a F/C.

And also, there is absolutely zero guarantee or even likelihood that Love is better than Bogut anyway. Bogut is likely a 17/10/2 block type guy this year.

I don't know. Seems Marcus Camby is fine on the defensive end at 220. Yi has the same length.

Yi was actually best on the defensive end last season. He struggled offensively.

Yi is in no way a small forward. Just because he can shoot?

There is no guarantee, but Love as a freshman was the best player on one of the best teams in the country. He has the same skill set, minus a couple of inches, and plus a better personality. He has also proven that he can shoot the ball against good competition. I'd take my chances.

jerrod · Post #64 » by **jerrod** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:14 pm

SupremeHustle wrote:Memo rulez.

future corey brewer>memo

pilprin · Post #65 » by **pilprin** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:26 pm

If I thought I could get Love at with a trade of Redd or Mo, I'd trade Yi and #8 for #3 in a heartbeat.

smooth 'lil balla · Post #66 » by **smooth 'lil balla** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:31 pm

Simulack wrote:How sweet would it be if we moved up to take Mayo and moved Redd for Howard? Talk about a dream offseason.

yes, this would be fantastic.

We just need stern to let us be good in a few years.

Post #67 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:39 pm

A Bogut for #3 swap simply makes too much sense in my opinion.

Forgive me for being able to look at a situation objectively, but here me out.

#1 - Bogut isn't a star. Like I said yesterday, if he's here then you need to find a star to put next to him. When's the last time a team contended without a stud at either the four or five?

#2 - Neither Yi nor CV and the #8 make sense for Minnesota. Their goal is to keep Jefferson at the four, the same position both Yi and CV play. Bringing in a backup to their star isn't worth the cost of moving down five spots and potentially missing out on a guy they like.

#3 - Bogut makes PERFECT sense for Minnesota. In the Haslem thread I said that we have the guy that does the dirty work (defends, rebounds, sets picks for others, scores the garbage points), what we need is the stud to pair him with. We aren't getting that star four at #8. We could get that star at #3, either in Mayo or Beasley. Meanwhile, Minnesota gets the perfect compliment to Jefferson. At #8 the Bucks can take a guy that may end up being a similar player to Bogut in Lopez (Luke, don't stone me).

If some of you guys can get past the thought of the Bucks without Bogut you can see how much of an upgrade in talent this team could see if the opportunity presents itself. I still liken this to draft day three years ago when the Bucks passed on the more talented options to go with the 'safe' big man that played a position that's tougher to fill. We need talent. It doesn't matter the position. Beasley and Mayo are the two most talented players in this class. If we can add either you do it, regardless of who we give up.

DanoMac · Post #68 » by **DanoMac** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:41 pm

I hope to god that Westbrook's promise is from the Clippers, therefore leaving Gordon falling to us. I was reading posts from teams in the 11-14 range, and they're all salivating over Gordon (knowing that he wouldn't fall that far). Man I hope he falls, that would be absolutely ideal.

LUKE23 · Post #69 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:44 pm

Rose is the best player in this class IMO, but we don't need to argue that.

The Bucks didn't pass up more talent for Bogut. They thought he was BPA, and actually most everyone in the media and most the fans did too. It was Bogut vs. Marvin, not Bogut vs. Paul or Bogut vs. Williams. Really nobody thought either of the PG's would be as good as they turned out to be.

I think Mayo will be a better talent than Bogut, I just don't think removing Bogut for his talent makes us a better team. Now, if you can keep those two together and have both the backcourt and frontcourt solidified, then you have something.

And Lopez isn't similar to Bogut, he's significantly worse. I don't think it really matters though, the Bucks aren't going to trade Bogut, and most likely not Yi.

Kerb Hohl · Post #70 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:45 pm

If they wanted Yi for some reason (the CV or Yi trades are doubtful to me seeing as they want Love and have Jefferson already)...

How about:

Redd/CV to Clips or Knicks for #6 or #7 + Thornton or Lee + TT or Richardson
Yi/#6 or #7 for #3(Mayo)

Draft Alexander at 8.

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Bell
Thornton/Simmons/MLE signing/Alexander
Alexander/TT/MLE signing
Bogut/Gadz

or

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Bell
Alexander/Q/MLE
Lee/Alexander/MLE
Bogut/Gadz

Trash may need to be added in the LAC/NY deals to make them work.

Post #71 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:51 pm

I simply think that those talking about #8 and [Yi or CV] are looking at this the wrong way. Just like the way people who wanted to pawn Redd and those two off on Denver for 'Melo simply don't get it. It's Bogut.

If the Bucks go to Minnesota in the hopes of trading up, the discussion is going to begin and end with Bogut. The question becomes how much does Hammond value either Mayo or Beasley. Remember DX's comparison for Mayo: Chauncey Billups. You don't think Hammond would love to build around a big, strong shot-making PG or a four that can hit shots all over the floor?

europa · Post #72 » by **europa** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:52 pm

The only player in this draft I'd consider trading Bogut for is Rose. That's it. No way in hell would I trade him for Mayo unless I was 100% convinced he was going to be a superstar. I'm not convinced of that and that seems to be the minority view around the league as well given how he'd be the slam-dunk No. 1 pick if he was.

Kerb Hohl · Post #73 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:53 pm

If we HAD to include Bogut in the deal...what about this?

Bogut/#8 for Craig Smith/#3

CV to GS for 14 (Rush)

Redd + Bell? to Dallas for Howard + Bass + trash

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Rush
Howard/Rush
Yi/Craig Smith
Bass/FA/Gadz

EDIT: Crap, Bass isn't really a C like I thought he was for some reason. Well, swing the trades around a little differently.

LUKE23 · Post #74 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:56 pm

CharlosVllnueva wrote:If we HAD to include Bogut in the deal...what about this?

Bogut/#8 for Craig Smith/#3

CV to GS for 14 (Rush)

Redd + Bell? to Dallas for Howard + Bass + trash

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Rush
Howard/Rush
Yi/Craig Smith
Bass/FA/Gadz

Bogut and the #8 for #3 and Bass at C? :lol:

That is a HORRENDOUS deal for the Bucks.

Post #75 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:57 pm

europa wrote:The only player in this draft I'd consider trading Bogut for is Rose. That's it. No way in hell would I trade him for Mayo unless I was 100% convinced he was going to be a superstar. I'm not convinced of that and that seems to be the minority view around the league as well given how he'd be the slam-dunk No. 1 pick if he was.

Maybe it's not the case with you, but those that watched Rose extensively early in the season are going to tell you he's far from a lock to be a star. The entire season he was simply just a solid player but far from a star. Overall what he did pails in comparison to what Beasley and Mayo showed. But he got a lot of people wet with what he did in the NCAAs. That's fine, but I choose to take his entire body of work into account.

Kerb Hohl · Post #76 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:59 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
CharlosVllnueva wrote:If we HAD to include Bogut in the deal...what about this?

Bogut/#8 for Craig Smith/#3

CV to GS for 14 (Rush)

Redd + Bell? to Dallas for Howard + Bass + trash

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Rush
Howard/Rush
Yi/Craig Smith
Bass/FA/Gadz

Bogut and the #8 for #3 and Bass at C?

That is a HORRENDOUS deal for the Bucks.

The damn edit kept not going through to fix my mistake with Bass at C.

How about Wolves give us Gomes and 3 for Bogut and 8.

Draft McGee at 14.

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Gomes/FA
Howard/Gomes/Simmons
Yi/Bass
McGee/FA/Gadz

LUKE23 · Post #77 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm

DrugBust wrote:
europa wrote:The only player in this draft I'd consider trading Bogut for is Rose. That's it. No way in hell would I trade him for Mayo unless I was 100% convinced he was going to be a superstar. I'm not convinced of that and that seems to be the minority view around the league as well given how he'd be the slam-dunk No. 1 pick if he was.

Maybe it's not the case with you, but those that watched Rose extensively early in the season are going to tell you he's far from a lock to be a star. The entire season he was simply just a solid player but far from a star. Overall what he did pails in comparison to what Beasley and Mayo showed. But he got a lot of people wet with what he did in the NCAAs. That's fine, but I choose to take his entire body of work into account.

This really isn't accurate and it's a good example of guys tending to shift arguments towards their guys. I'm a Mayo guy, but I'm high on Rose as well. Rose averaged like 21/5/5 in the tourney and led his team to the championship game as a freshman. Why shouldn't they take the tourney into account, he didn't have to be a huge scorer during the regular season given how deep that team was and how badly they were dismantling their opponents. He's athletically very gifted and is a true PG in every sense. What he did during the season does not "pail in comparison" to Mayo and Beasley. That is ridiculous.

europa · Post #78 » by **europa** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:01 pm

And those of us who watched Mayo extensively saw a player whose stock dropped in the first half of the season. Like Rose, Mayo was a guy whose stock went up in the second half of the season. Many scouts were disappointed with Mayo early on. Even now there are questions about him and if he was a slam-dunk superstar, why in God's name would the T'Wolves even think about trading him if they can draft him? But apparently they're thinking about it and it sure sounds like they're thinking about it strongly.

LUKE23 · Post #79 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:02 pm

CharlosVllnueva wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
CharlosVllnueva wrote:If we HAD to include Bogut in the deal...what about this?

Bogut/#8 for Craig Smith/#3

CV to GS for 14 (Rush)

Redd + Bell? to Dallas for Howard + Bass + trash

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/Rush
Howard/Rush
Yi/Craig Smith
Bass/FA/Gadz

Bogut and the #8 for #3 and Bass at C?

That is a HORRENDOUS deal for the Bucks.

The damn edit kept not going through to fix my mistake with Bass at C.

How about Wolves give us Gomes and 3 for Bogut and 8.

Draft McGee at 14.

Mo/Sessions
Mayo/FA
Howard/Simmons
Yi/Bass
McGee/Gadz

People are debating Bogut for #3 being fair, and for some reason you keep throwing in #8. You do realize the Bucks get raped in that deal right?

Oye...

Bernman · Post #80 » by **Bernman** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:03 pm

Quick takes, not sucking (I'm kind of in a hurry here)

- If Mayo projects to be Brandon Roy, that's probably a good thing. Roy is a player who makes all the right decisions offensively. He can take opponents one-on-one when need be and make players better. Defensively, he'll put the clamps on counterpart. If you had 5 Brandon Roys on a team you'd win a championship. No shame in Mayo having a Roy level career and in hindsight we should have traded up to get him if the comparison comes to fruition.

- Shyi Jianlian would be a good fit in Minnesota. He could cover your lankier centers, while Jefferson takes the more girthy ones. Offensively, Jefferson is a low post player while Jianlian is a roamer. It's a good fit on both ends of the court. If people are reluctant to trade Yee, ask yourself this question, has he exceeded the expectations of a #6 pick when considering the opportunity he was given. Clearly he hasn't when looking at his PER and just relying on subjective observation. He certainly hasn't played himself into a #3 pick level player in the draft. If the Wolves were to offer the #3 for Yee, from a basketball not financial standpoint, you sign on the dotted line before their Xanax wears off.

- If Bogut simply translates his jumper from international/college ball, which sets up his dribble drive, and he starts hitting his throws at a decent clip; he's one of the premier centers in the NBA statistically. A premier center is worth more than a #3 pick. Say your average NBA career for a player drafted that high is 12 years. So 36 players are drafted in the top 3 over 12 years. Or theoretically the top 7 at each position. Bogut would be better than a top 7 center if he averaged 18/10/3/2.