Two moves: Marion and Hinrich to Milwaukee

[EastSideBucksFan]

Per wiretap it appears Pat Riley is exploring trading Marion for a playmaker at the PG spot. I'm sure Mo Williams still has to be on his radar. While I know they are very keen on keeping cap space available to try and land a huge FA in two years, I think they have to balance that goal with keeping the team competive enough for Dwyane Wade to want to stay. If he decides he wants to make a move and win now, I would offer up this deal for Marion.

Bucks trade: Mo/Gadz/2009 1st (top 10 protected)
Heat trade: Shawn Marion

Bucks would be clearing a ton of cap space in this deal while becoming much more competive in the short term. Marion can play PF well in the east and while there are concerns about him resigning, I think at the very least we would get a great career year out of Marion and if he doesn't resign, we get a ton of cap space next summer. Marion helps to instill a defensive attitude to this team and gives Skiles a very versatile player to help make it happen on the floor. Miami doesn't want to take on Gadz's deal, but a first motivates them to do it just to land Mo.

This move would then be followed up to get the point guard we covet to run the show.


Bucks trade: CV/Mason
Bulls trade: Kirk Hinrich

The Bulls clear the log jam in the backcourt and clear out some salary which will give them more flexibility in resigning Deng and Gordon. Bulls receive two expiring contracts and two players who can get in their rotation this year. Bucks take on salary here, but cement their backcourt for the next few years. Hinrich is the perfect fit for Skiles and the perfect fit next to Redd. A defensive minded pass first point guard with a record of success.

These two moves instantly could put us in the top 4 of the eastern conference

Hinrich/Sessions
Redd/Bell
Jefferson/Alexander
Marion/Alexander
Bogut/FA


We would need to still bring in a couple of min salary front court players to help fill in some minutes, but that is a great starting 5 and one that only has one bad defender (Redd) and has plenty of versatility on the defensive side and a lineup that can score at will.

[Reggie White]

I think your Bulls trade makes sense for both teams. We just can't have CV on this team if we want to have a defensive focus. The Bulls have a logjam and they would get value for Hinrich, who is clearly a lame duck with Rose being acquired.

However, I don't think your proposed acquisition of Marion helps us. I think someone else said it best: if we trade CV, we need to bring back another PF in that trade or another. By bringing in Marion, another SF, we now have 3 potential starters at SF (Jefferson, Alexander and Marion) and nothing at PF. Would we go smal ball? Didn't we already try taking Bobby Simmons, a supposed defensive specialist and try him out at PF? I vaguely remember comments like "He's got the wingspan of a PF" a couple of years ago.

Now I feel like I'm posting stuff that has already been posted in other places. If we can acquire a better PG with a trade involving CV, then we need to be able to bring in a PF with a trade involving Mo. If Gadz's contract was 1 year shorter, then we'd be able to include him in more potential deals. His deal doesn't expire until 2011 ... one year after "the year of Lebron/Wade/Bosh."

[paulpressey25]

All these Heat PG stories end in them trying to acquire Andre Miller, Hinrich, and now Ellis. You never see Mo's name in these stories.

[EastSideBucksFan]

I think your Bulls trade makes sense for both teams. We just can't have CV on this team if we want to have a defensive focus. The Bulls have a logjam and they would get value for Hinrich, who is clearly a lame duck with Rose being acquired.

However, I don't think your proposed acquisition of Marion helps us. I think someone else said it best: if we trade CV, we need to bring back another PF in that trade or another. By bringing in Marion, another SF, we now have 3 potential starters at SF (Jefferson, Alexander and Marion) and nothing at PF. Would we go smal ball? Didn't we already try taking Bobby Simmons, a supposed defensive specialist and try him out at PF? I vaguely remember comments like "He's got the wingspan of a PF" a couple of years ago.

Now I feel like I'm posting stuff that has already been posted in other places. If we can acquire a better PG with a trade involving CV, then we need to be able to bring in a PF with a trade involving Mo. If Gadz's contract was 1 year shorter, then we'd be able to include him in more potential deals. His deal doesn't expire until 2011 ... one year after "the year of Lebron/Wade/Bosh."

Marion has primarily played power forward in recent years. Next to Amare Stoudemire he played PF before the Shaq trade. Moving him to the Eastern Conference would be make it much easier for him to be a PF since there are fewer premier PF's.

[slappyg]

Rumors are that Miami may trade Marion for Hinrich. Hinrich is a higher perceived value than what we have to offer.

[EastSideBucksFan]

All these Heat PG stories end in them trying to acquire Andre Miller, Hinrich, and now Ellis. You never see Mo's name in these stories.

Did you see any stories that referenced the Bucks being interested in RJ?



You don't have to see a guys name in the paper to think he could be traded.

It could be Riley trying to drive up the price with someone he is interested in.

[paulpressey25]

Did you see any stories that referenced the Bucks being interested in RJ?

Agreed. But we didn't have a history of the Bucks trying to publicly acquire RJ as a FA last summer.

It probably is good Mo's name isn't being mentioned since those trades are the ones that seem to get made.

I'm just noting that the "media" and much of their fanbase on here don't seem to feel that Mo is a suitable PG for the Heat to target.

This board will explode though if Mo/CV/Dez aren't dealt for some combination of Marion, Hinrich, Haslem, Collison, Camby, etc. here in the next week or two.

[Reggie White]

paulpressey25 wrote: "This board will explode though if Mo/CV/Dez aren't dealt for some combination of Marion, Hinrich, Haslem, Collison, Camby, etc. here in the next week or two."

I think that every 3rd post at this board right now includes a different "variation on a theme" of PP's comment above. Maybe MD or PP25 should put a moratorium on posts of potential trades until July 9th when trades can first be announced?

[sonny]

Bulls currently have a logjam at pf/sf.

Gooden/Deng/Tyrus/Thabo/Nocioni.

Unless we're trading for very good players, the Bulls will probably look to trade Hinrich/Nocioni for guys that don't require a lot of playing time and expirings.

I don't see Gooden getting moved and Tyrus is one of Vinny's favorites and he's been working hard this summer and has grown some.

[paulpressey25]

The board would die out if we couldn't keep talking about Redd, Mo or CV and possible trades for them......

I just hope we get something done here in July so we can all "move on" mentally. We've burned two-years talking about the faults of Redd, Mo, and CV. We need a new angle.

[RAtheMONsession]

I dont think the bulls would be interested in that trade. I posted that same one on their forum and nobody was for it.

I do think something like this would work though.... (both were successful on the trade checker)

1st trade
Mo Williams and Dan Gadzuric for Anderson Varejao and Eric Snow

2nd trade
Charlie Villanueva for Ramond Felton

Depth Chart for next season

PG- Felton, Sessions, Snow
SG- Redd, Bell, Mason
SF- Jefferson, Mason, Alexander
PF- Varejao, Alexander
C- Bogut, Varejao

That would make us a serious playoff contender, and IMO both are very fair

[bango_the_buck]

Unless we're trading for very good players, the Bulls will probably look to trade Hinrich/Nocioni for guys that don't require a lot of playing time and expirings.

That's good, because both Mason and CV (qualifying offer) are expiring. Mason wouldn't need a lot of PT, though CV would. But given how offensively challenged most of the Bulls bigs are, I don't think that would be much of a problem...

[paul]

That's a scarey lineup Eastside and makes the mouth water, however one big stumbling block I can see is that we would then potentially be a LOT better than the Heat imo, Riley may be loathe to put another team from the East above his in the postseason pecking order.

[Chapter29]

Eastside,

I would do both trades no questions asked.

The problem I see, though they a reasonably fair deals, I don't think either team agrees.

The Heat as Press has said is not very likely to be interested in Mo. I think they were last year for the mid level, but now that he is signed for a fair amount more and signed past 2010 I cannot see it happening. To me if I was Paxon I would pull the trigger on that deal, but it would appear from their fanbase that they are not interested in CV.

Edited to add..

I took a peak at the Miami board and there is a thread about Mo for Haslem. Seems they may be for such a deal, but a couple posters said that any Mo deal must include Banks. I think that may be doable. Much more so than Marion.

[randy84]

This trade doesn't make sense for the Bucks.

We would be in the same boat as Miami, having no PG and none available in free agency.

Secondly, why would the Bulls trade with the Bucks. They are both trying to make the post season so why would they try to make the Bucks better. I never understand why people don't realize this when making trade proposals.

[Chapter29]

What does it matter if the Bulls and Bucks deal? Didn't the Bulls just deal with Cleveland?

Being in the division is irrelevant. I would certainly assume that if the Bulls deal with the Bucks it isn't to make the Bucks a better team, but perhaps rather to make the Bulls a better team.

We would indeed be thin at PG if we do Mo for Haslem, but Sessions is my preferred choice as a starting PG anyways so we aren't that far off, just need some depth. I would rather be thin at PG with Sessions and Bell then thin at PF with CV and Alexander.

[randy84]

What does it matter if the Bulls and Bucks deal? Didn't the Bulls just deal with Cleveland?
Being in the division is irrelevant. I would certainly assume that if the Bulls deal with the Bucks it isn't to make the Bucks a better team, but perhaps rather to make the Bulls a better team.

We would indeed be thin at PG if we do Mo for Haslem, but Sessions is my preferred choice as a starting PG anyways so we aren't that far off, just need some depth. I would rather be thin at PG with Sessions and Bell then thin at PF with CV and Alexander.

As to your first point, look how that turned out. Cleveland made the playoffs and Chicago was in the lottery.

Secondly, how does CV make the Bulls a better team? If we don't want him and we need a PF, why would Chicago want him when they have decent PFs?

[Chapter29]

So the Bulls made the trade to make Cleveland better?

No they rid themselves of a way overpriced has-been player (Wallace) for a player (Gooden) who at least fit a bit of team need (interior scoring) and Hughes. Did you happen to notice that the Bulls stunk prior to the trade (17 games out) and Cleveland was pretty good? 2 role players were not going to make a huge short term difference for the Bulls, with Cleveland hoping the trade would be enough to put them over the top. Shedding the Wallace mistake was fairly important. I mean come on a FC of Wallace, TT and Noah. That's just plain dumb. 3 extremely similar players who don't compliment each other well at all.

CV maybe does not make the Bulls better, in fact I said I thought that they would turn down that offer. Hence, they wouldn't do it just to make the Bucks better. Go figure. Though you never really know what they are thinking and they certainly don't value Hinrich all that highly after his terrible season and the acquisition of Rose. With that said I personally would keep Hinrich given his lower trade value and need for a backup PG>

[EastSideBucksFan]

Who says the Bulls do it to make themselves a better team on the floor?

Plenty of teams have unloaded talent for cap space and I don't know that the Bulls will have too many teams willing to offer expiring contracts for Hinrich.

[randy84]

Teams that are rebuilding or have horrible contracts are the ones that usaully try to gain expiring contracts. The Bulls really aren't in this situation and they are looking to make the playoffs.