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Just noticed a report suggesting that Andris Biedrins will sign for $63m for 6 years, with the 6th year being a player option.

My first reaction to think that Bogut's contract is definitely fair market value when compared to Biedrins. Both are young C's with loads of talent and potential to improve, with Bogut being the more accomplished to date.

On average biedrins would be getting $10.5m per season in comparison to Bogut receiving $12m on average. I would say that the difference between the two salaries is about right given Bogut's superior skill set.

Not sure how everyone else feels about the Bogut contract now, but to me it shows that Hammond made the right decision in locking up Bogut now rather than waiting.

Agreed. Bogut > Biedrins.

Bogut's play WILL be improved next year. Biedrins? Nice player - but will he excel?

Looking at this move in a vacuum (disregarding the Ellis deal, Turiaf/Maggette signings, etc.), it seems a very good deal. People forget how young Biedrins is, Bogut's age, right?

Very efficient player who is a solid help defender, and big men command a lot of money, obviously.

I generally hate player options, though.

I believe Biedrins is about 1 or 2 years younger.

I tend to believe that Biedrins has less improvement in him than Bogut, because Bogut's game is already pretty well rounded for a C, except for the mid-range jumper and the ft%.
I think Biedrin's stats are largely a result of the warriors style of play, and i'm not sure if he'd have as much success in a half-court style game, whereas Bogut would be able to adapt.

I actually see Biedrins as a Tyson Chandler type, but with a little less length, and slightly better offensive game.

One thing to remember when comparing contracts is that Biedrins is a draft class older than Bogut. So he was an RFA this summer, and his extension kicks in right away this season. So he's guaranteed 6-years/$63mm whereas Bogut is guaranteed 6-years/$66 million under his deal if you count what Bogut will be paid this upcoming season. The devil is in those $12.5mm in incentives Bogut has.

Biedrins also doesn't have averaged into his $63mm one "cheap year" by virtue of the fourth year of his rookie deal like Bogut has when you use his six-year/$66mm, so Biedrins deal is a bit less expensive than Bogut's might be on that count, depending on what Bogut signs for his first year out of this new deal five years from now.

Biedrins was born in April 1986 so he's going to be 23 next spring. Bogut turns 24 in November, so he is about a year and a half older.

I really like Biedrins, but I think Bogut passed him by this past season.

This makes me very happy with the Bogut deal.

These guys all get $60mm+ deals....Bogut, Biedrins, Chandler, Nene, Dalembert, etc.....

The only thing is that none of them are good enough to carry their teams......so you basically pay up and hope that "Chris Paul" joins your team. Or a trio of Brand, Iggy, Andre Miller.

paulpressey25 wrote:The devil is in those $12.5mm in incentives Bogut has.

Biedrins was born in April 1986 so he's going to be 23 next spring. Bogut turns 24 in November, so he is about a year and a half older.

I love the incentives. I won't be mad if he performs well enough to reach them. I also don't consider a one year age difference to be relevant. To me, Biedrins is a good shot blocker and rebounder but I can't ever see him being a player you feed in the post on offense. Bogut IMO has more potential and offers more at the center position.

paulpressey25 wrote:These guys all get $60mm+ deals....Bogut, Biedrins, Chandler, Nene, Dalembert, etc.....

The only thing is that none of them are good enough to carry their teams......so you basically pay up and hope that "Chris Paul" joins your team. Or a trio of Brand, Iggy, Andre Miller.

I can't believe Denver paid Nene that much, what a bad move. ~60 million+ is a lot but that is market value for a good young center. There are only a handful of players good enough to carry their teams in the NBA and they all get the max. 60 million for a #3 starter is a lot but you get what you pay for I suppose.

I hope that Chris Paul joins our team.

I like AB (Latvian version). To me he is almost identical to our AB, although I like our version slightly more (more complete).

paulpressey25 wrote:The devil is in those $12.5mm in incentives Bogut has.

My understanding is that they're unlikely to be realized.

http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/7/23/57736 ... bogut-s-de

Biedrins is a very good player. Obviously, defense is his biggest strength, but people forget (or never knew) that he lead the NBA in FG% last season (64%). He's very promising.

fam3381 wrote:My understanding is that they're unlikely to be realized.

You make a good point about them not qualifying to be counted under the cap. I just wish they'd get fully disclosed though so we can all make that decision for ourselves.

fam3381 wrote:

paulpressey25 wrote:The devil is in those $12.5mm in incentives Bogut has.

My understanding is that they're unlikely to be realized.

http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/7/23/57736 ... bogut-s-de

Do you know what they are? Are they literally the things you mentioned like making all-NBA teams?

adamcz wrote:Are they literally the things you mentioned like making all-NBA teams?

I believe they are.

The two things that I'm not 100% sure on are the "ballot all-star" incentive and the championship thing. My understanding is that he would have to be voted into the all-star game, which is based on my interpretation of the term "ballot all-star." Obviously that's not likely with Dwight Howard around, though if it was just getting on the all-star team then it would be different. If anyone hears any clarification on that it would be great to verify it, but I'd also note that the impression I got overall from the description of the incentives was that it's basically a $60 million deal. Which is probably the most important thing.

Also, I think Ian Thomsen alluded to the Bucks just needing to make the finals for that incentive to be reached, whereas I heard they had to win it. Given where we are now, neither of those scenarios seem all that likely, so splitting hairs there probably doesn't make much difference.

I think Bogut was overpaid by 1 or 1.5 million per season, but his base contract is fine with me. The thing that upset me the most about his contract is the incentives because I don't believe he has done anything to have the ability to earn even more money added on to his contract which is already slightly overpaying him.

Biendris I thought was worth about 8-10, Bogut I thought was worth 9-11, so I think Beindris is just barely overpaid... But at the same time Biendris also doesn't have incentives on his deal.

Aside from the passing ability, can anyone tell me one single thing that Bogut does better than Biedrins?

I don't know that I would have given either the contract that they got, but if you want to compare defense, rebounding, scoring and athletic ability then Bogut gets the short stick. That said, I'd still have to take Bogut right now because he used to be able to shoot and he appeared to have an offensive arsenal at one point.

If Bogut gets that shooting stroke back and starts to look like the offensive weapon he was coming out of Utah then I'd much, much rather have him. If he's the Bogut of '08 at this time in '09, we're all going to be screaming for Hammond's head.

DrugBust wrote:Aside from the passing ability, can anyone tell me one single thing that Bogut does better than Biedrins?

I don't know that I would have given either the contract that they got, but if you want to compare defense, rebounding, scoring and athletic ability then Bogut gets the short stick. That said, I'd still have to take Bogut right now because he used to be able to shoot and he appeared to have an offensive arsenal at one point.

If Bogut gets that shooting stroke back and starts to look like the offensive weapon he was coming out of Utah then I'd much, much rather have him. If he's the Bogut of '08 at this time in '09, we're all going to be screaming for Hammond's head.

from what ive seen of biedrins (admittedly not extensive), i would actually take Bogut's d over his any day of the week. Sure Biedrins can block some shots, but he didnt seem to hold his ground well against anyone i saw matched up against him. Hes really a run and jump type of centre, and might not excel in a halfcourt system the way he does over there.

Having said that, you're right, we are paying Bogut on the assumption that he still has a lot of improvement left in him. I dont know how good Bogut can actually become, but i have faith that he will work hard to make the most of his physical gifts. Hes been a slow learner thus far, but i think if he fills out his potential he should have a much superior career to Biedrins. But i agree, we're paying him on his potential.

Name Team GP Min M A Pct M A Pct M A Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG
Andrew Bogut MIL 78 34.9 6.0 11.7 51.1 0.0 0.1 0.0 2.4 4.1 58.7 3.1 6.6 9.8 2.6 2.2 0.8 1.7 3.3 14.4

Andris Biedrins GS 76 27.4 4.5 7.1 62.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.5 2.5 62.0 3.4 6.4 9.8 1.0 1.1 0.7 1.2 3.5 10.5

Comparing the stats, although Biedrins has a higher fg% how many of his shots were something other than dunks and put-backs?? I'm not sure, but just asking the question as i'd assume Bogut has had to take his man 1 on 1 more than Biedrins.

Secondly, i'm not sure why people calling Biedrins a better defender. Bogut averaged more blks per game last season (albeit in 7 more mins) and is also regarded as one of the best players in the NBA (not just C's) at taking chargers. He is stronger in the body than Biedrins and a better one-on-one post defender.

With Bogut's superior offensive game, including his passing and ball-handling abilities, he is easily a superior player and has just as much potential to grow as Biedrins.

I agree with Redred, I personally think Bogut is the better defender overall. Biedrins definitely a better help defender, with the man defense going to Bogut. Factor in Bogut's improved help defense though and I think the defensive edge overall swings in his favor (I still think the charges Bogut takes are underrated).

Otherwise though, this is great value, Biedrins is a solid guy. At first I thought his stats may be inflated a little due to GS out of control pace, but no, I didn't realize he doesn't play a lot of minutes, so it kind of offsets that (e.g., his rebound rate is very good).

It all comes back to how Bogut comes out of the gate. If he plays the balance of his career like he did the second half, he's a better player than Biedrins in ALL facets of the game.

A year ago when Biedrins was an 11/9.5/1.5 guy we all loved him on here over Bogut. But a year later Bogut has become a better scorer, rebounder and shotblocker than Biedrins.