Ty's Blog:Is Sessions a better 2-guard than Redd?

jeremyd236 · Post #41 » by **jeremyd236** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:57 am

Mags FTW wrote:
jeremyd236 wrote:If Sessions is playing the 2 and those are the stats you are using (by using something like per 36 minutes or per 48 minutes compared with Redd), chances are that Sessions is playing against the other team's 2nd unit or in garbage time.

I'm not too sure about that, When Redd was out there was that stretch where Skiles liked to use that Ridnour/Sessions backcourt, even in crunch time.

Well okay, suppose that Redd and Sessions played against equal talent on every given night (which we both know they do not).

If Redd were to play something like 20-26 minutes per night, record his per minute stats, then estimate his per 37 minute stats....don't you think they'd be higher than what his averages on the season are?

My point is that you can't compare per x amount of minute stats because I personally don't think Sessions could get the stats in 36 minutes that his per minute stats would indicate. It doesn't work like that.

BDUB_30 · Post #42 » by **BDUB_30** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:24 am

another numbers thread ? :lol:

sessions is a better 2guard defender then redd ? sessions cant even keep andre miller from putting his body on him ... imagine vince carter being guarded by sessions .. or mike miller ... sessions vs kobe ...

i dont need to look at numbers to understand this ..sessions cant guard the 2 night in and night out ...sure , he can play against the other teams 2nd string 2 guard often ..

i guess thats not part of the calculation either .. the fact that redd is a starter and sessions is not .. meaning redd plays against the kobes and vince carters and sessions plays against the anthony morrows and eddie houses .

power4wardjinx · Post #43 » by **power4wardjinx** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:30 am

Defensively, Sessions was guarding Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Allen Iverson, Mo Williams, O.J. Mayo, Jamal Crawford, Jason Richardson ... eye test said the Ridnour-Sessions back court looked tight on the perimeter and the stats back it up. The opponent shooting percentages back it up.

Ramon's gamelogs in the 14 GWR (games without Redd) at basketball-reference.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... &year=2009

GWR for Ramon: 32 mpg, 15.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 5 apg. x .11 to get to 36 mins.

BDUB_30 · Post #44 » by **BDUB_30** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:50 am

power4wardjinx wrote:Defensively, Sessions was guarding Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, Allen Iverson, Mo Williams, O.J. Mayo, Jamal Crawford, Jason Richardson ... eye test said the Ridnour-Sessions back court looked tight on the perimeter and the stats back it up. The opponent shooting percentages back it up.

Ramon's gamelogs in the 14 GWR (games without Redd) at basketball-reference.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... &year=2009

GWR for Ramon: 32 mpg, 15.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 5 apg. x .11 to get to 36 mins.

not all 32 minutes were played at the 2 ....tell me how many minutes lue played during that stretch ....

power4wardjinx · Post #45 » by **power4wardjinx** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:15 am

Didn't say they were, only pointing out that Ramon's production doesn't fall off with more playing time as was suggested by Jeremy (didn't see your post until after I posted Ramon's stat lines).

three separate stat trains here. 1) is Bucks Diary's original blog about Ramon defending the 2 position better than Redd (the stats bear it out); 2) is OVERALL opponent 3-point % vs. the Bucks which backs up the idea that Sessions should be playing more at the two; 3) Generally whether Ramon would produce when given playing time - which he does, and did.

lawrybeard · Post #46 » by **lawrybeard** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:52 am

A week or two ago I was listening to the espn podcast and the host was talking about the Bucks. He was saying they were playing ok, but he would definitely like to see Sessions getting much more playing time over Ridnour. He then went on to say he hadn't seen any Bucks games of late, which leads me to my point.

I think there is a lot of love for Sessions from NBA fans who play fantasy basketball. It doesn't matter if they have seen him play or not, they know he can generate stats when he has minutes, and therefore he must be a good player who deserves minutes. I'm not saying this is true for this blog (and obviously not for this board), it's just an observation.

To compare Sessions with Redd is ridiculous, and I'm far from a Redd fan.

BDUB_30 · Post #47 » by **BDUB_30** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:22 am

power4wardjinx wrote:Didn't say they were, only pointing out that Ramon's production doesn't fall off with more playing time as was suggested by Jeremy (didn't see your post until after I posted Ramon's stat lines)..

thats not all you pointed out ... you pointed out that ramon sessions guarded ray allen , jason richardson ..etc etc ..

insuating that he played 32 minutes at the 2 guard .

when , he did not .. he played some 2 for us when redd was out ..and he also backed up ridnour because lue was getting very little burn during that time ...

take 13 minutes off of sessions 32 minutes ...19 ..he was backing up ridnour anywhere from 10-15 mpg...youre going to tell me that for the 15-20 minutes a game that sessions was playing 2 for us , youre certain that he was guarding the " ray allens and jason richardsons " ?

im sure he was in some capacity ..but not comparable to redd ...as weve established now ...ramon played 15-20 minutes at the 2 ...redd plays ...32+ ..against starting caliber players ... the same can not be said about ramon ... thats a huge flaw in this arguement ...

power4wardjinx · Post #48 » by **power4wardjinx** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:59 am

BDUB_30 wrote:
power4wardjinx wrote:Didn't say they were, only pointing out that Ramon's production doesn't fall off with more playing time as was suggested by Jeremy (didn't see your post until after I posted Ramon's stat lines)..

take 13 minutes off of sessions 32 minutes ...19 ..he was backing up ridnour anywhere from 10-15 mpg...youre going to tell me that for the 15-20 minutes a game that sessions was playing 2 for us , youre certain that he was guarding the " ray allens and jason richardsons " ?

im sure he was in some capacity ..

Sessions and Ridnour finished out nearly every single one of those games as the guard tandem in the 4th quarter, and those were the games they made 4th quarter pushes against some tough competition. For a few of those games, Charlie Bell was hobbled and seeing limited action -- so Sessions and Ridnour were out there quite a lot together.

The Bucks were at the top of the league defending 3's. Then Redd came back. Now they're 18th in opponent 3-point %. If you just took the 25 games he's played, the Bucks would be 28th. It doesn't seem to matter who Redd is guarding - when he guards forwards, their eFG % is 63 percent. The Bucks simply can't guard the perimeter well when Redd is on the court. Somehow, when Sessions was filling in for him, the opponents shots were challenged.
If there's any flaw here, it's in Redd's inability to play defense, not in Bucks Diary's OP or anybody else who put these together the various stats, all of which point to the same thing.

Post #49 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:42 pm

power4wardjinx wrote:Redd came back. Now they're 18th in opponent 3-point %. If you just took the 25 games he's played, the Bucks would be 28th. .

We drop to 28th based on percentages allowed during the 25 games Redd has played in? From what would be the #1 percentage if we used the 14 games Redd did not play in?

LUKE23 · Post #50 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:43 pm

The Bucks were in the top 5 in 3 point d early in the year, maybe even top 3. I don't remember the exact rank at the time Redd came back though (although my stat update thread probably has it).

smooth 'lil balla · Post #51 » by **smooth 'lil balla** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:57 pm

the very premise of this thread is a joke.

power4wardjinx · Post #52 » by **power4wardjinx** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:18 pm

smooth 'lil balla wrote:the very premise of this thread is a joke.

Yet so well-timed.

old skool · Post #53 » by **old skool** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:00 pm

This could start a whole new trend.

Why it makes more sense to start Darvin Ham over Glen Robinson.

Why it makes sense to start Dan Gadzuric over Charlie Villanueva.

Why it makes more sense to start Michael Ruffin over Andrew Bogut.

Rockmaninoff · Post #54 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:20 pm

old skool wrote:This could start a whole new trend.

Why it makes more sense to start Darvin Ham over Glen Robinson.

Why it makes sense to start Dan Gadzuric over Charlie Villanueva.

Why it makes more sense to start Michael Ruffin over Andrew Bogut.

I wish we still had Michael Ruffin. That guy was incredibly solid.

trwi7 · Post #55 » by **trwi7** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:19 am

Just thought I'd add a little more.

Looking through 82games and I saw they have stats by quarter. Guess who comes in last place in fourth quarter FG%?

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S6.HTM

Post #56 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:37 am

trwi7 wrote:Just thought I'd add a little more.

Looking through 82games and I saw they have stats by quarter. Guess who comes in last place in fourth quarter FG%?

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S6.HTM

I'm not really sure how that is possible given how many players are in that list. It's the entire NBA basically it appears.

Max Green · Post #57 » by **Max Green** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:44 am

Michael Redd should be coming off the bench.

AussieBuck · Post #58 » by **AussieBuck** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:09 am

Rockmaninoff wrote:
old skool wrote:This could start a whole new trend.

Why it makes more sense to start Darvin Ham over Glen Robinson.

Why it makes sense to start Dan Gadzuric over Charlie Villanueva.

Why it makes more sense to start Michael Ruffin over Andrew Bogut.

I wish we still had Michael Ruffin. That guy was incredibly solid.

Hell yeah, we could use that situational D a fair bit.

lawrybeard · Post #59 » by **lawrybeard** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:10 am

trwi7 wrote:Just thought I'd add a little more.

Looking through 82games and I saw they have stats by quarter. Guess who comes in last place in fourth quarter FG%?

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S6.HTM

At least he's in the top 20 in FGA for the 4th quarter though!

AussieBuck · Post #60 » by **AussieBuck** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:11 am

MVP4Champ wrote:Michael Redd should be coming off the bench.

Sessions 4.6 points in the 4th @ 48%
Redd 3.3 points in the 4th @ 24%