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LUKE23 wrote:Carter was better than either Redd or RJ last year, and I believe he is available as well.

Carter's more talented but he brings issues with him that neither RJ or Redd carry. That knocks his value down a peg and maybe more in my opinion.

europa wrote:

smauss wrote:
First off, I'm taking what I think Kohls perspective would be on the trade discussed with the Wizards in context. How many subsequent trades do you think we will make; especially involving a core piece of the team? I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, heaven knows I would in a heart beat but I don't think Kohl does.

If the RJ to the Wizards trade would be made, Ridnour goes for sure since James is a veteran reserve PG. I don't see why Kohl wouldn't make the trade. Hammond hasn't wanted to trade RJ or Redd for expirings only. He wants to bring back talent. This trade does that in a big way assuming Hammond likes Harden. If he does, I see nothing stopping this trade from happening.

That's assuming Harden is there at 5.

europa wrote:

LUKE23 wrote:Carter was better than either Redd or RJ last year, and I believe he is available as well.

Carter's more talented but he brings issues with him that neither RJ or Redd carry. That knocks his value down a peg and maybe more in my opinion.

In your opinion, yes. But I highly doubt a franchise like Washington who has Gilbert Arenas will think anything of Carter's "issues"

Well, all I can say europa, I would absolutely love to be proven completely and utterly wrong on this!

We shall see what we shall see......

The pipe dream trade IMO is RJ for #5, Songalia, James.

That solves almost everything for us. We save money now, get a bench foul/banger in Songalia. Get a gunner as well. Plus then you take whoever falls to you at 5 (Harden, Thabeet, Rubio, Hill).

The question is would the Wizards do that? Probably not IMO. So would they do it if the trade-off was swapping the 5/10 picks?

LUKE23 wrote:Carter was better than either Redd or RJ last year, and I believe he is available as well.

Carter was the first one on my list. The only drawback that I see is he has 3yrs left on his deal instead of 2.

paulpressey25 wrote:The pipe dream trade IMO is RJ for #5, Songalia, James.

That solves almost everything for us. We save money now, get a bench foul/banger in Songalia. Get a gunner as well. Plus then you take whoever falls to you at 5 (Harden, Thabeet, Rubio, Hill).

The question is would the Wizards do that? Probably not IMO. So would they do it if the trade-off was swapping the 5/10 picks?

The pick swap would make it too much in their favor.

Carter's more talented but he brings issues with him that neither RJ or Redd carry. That knocks his value down a peg and maybe more in my opinion.

Like what?

Include the pick, make it Thomas and James for the expirings and have the Wizards include the 33rd pick. I don't want to give up the 10th pick but at least this way the Bucks have a chance to add a potentially decent player with another pick.

Bucks come out of the draft with:

5. Harden
33. Heytvelt
41. McNeal/Brown etc.

Hammond could also package 41 and a future 2nd to try and get the 24th pick from Portland. Take someone like Sam Young there. Then deal Ridnour/cash for one of the T'Wolves' or Spurs' seconds. Not sure how it all adds up under the tax when that's all said and done but that's a pretty nice night's work in my opinion.

LUKE23 wrote:

Carter's more talented but he brings issues with him that neither RJ or Redd carry. That knocks his value down a peg and maybe more in my opinion.

Like what?

Ask the Raptors.

Ask Richard Jefferson too. Not sure Jason Kidd's a huge fan either.

But even if you want to ignore all that as Doc said his contract is worse than RJ's or Redd's.

Ask the Raptors.

Ask Richard Jefferson too. Not sure Jason Kidd's a huge fan either.

But even if you want to ignore all that as Doc said his contract is worse than RJ's or Redd's.

This isn't much of a case. So because he was traded and because two ex-teammates had bad words? Pretty funny that one of those guys beat the hell out of his wife repeatedly too, great character reference.

Regarding the contract, it's longer, but it's quite obvious the Wizards wouldn't be worried about that if they are going to take Redd or RJ either. To say they would take those two at their salaries but that they wouldn't take VC because he goes one year longer is pretty funny.

Like I said, if you want to ignore the past issues, that's fine. That's your choice. Maybe the Wizards agree; maybe not. But his contract is worse than RJ's or Redd's. So from that perspective alone I'd rather have RJ or a healthy Redd. When you combine everything, Carter isn't a guy I'd be all that interested in. But that's just my opinion.

Hopefully Gilbert is in Grunfeld's ear and not Jamison. Gilbert probably would want Jefferson, while Jamison would probably want Carter.

You still haven't said what past issues. VC isn't viewed like Zach Randolph in the league. So we can completely disregard that as a reason they wouldn't want him.

Contract, like I said, if they are willing to take Redd/RJ, they would be willing to take one extra year of VC.

Carter quit on the Raptors. Just flat out tanked on them so they'd be forced to trade him. That's common knowledge. That's a pretty significant issue in my opinion. It's one thing to dog a game or two. That's bad enough. But to just quit on a team in order to force your way out of town. That's pretty despicable in my opinion. And the rumors are Jefferson and Kidd didn't get along all that well with Carter and there is a school of thought around the league which believes the reason why the Nets fell apart was Carter's arrival.

Like I said, you don't have to agree with any of this. That's fine. But I guarantee you there are teams around the league who do and hold Carter in lesser standing despite his talent because of it.

I've invited the Wizards fans over. They really need to be a part of this. Please treat them with respect, as I hope they join the thread.

RJ and Butler's deals expire the same year which is a big chunk of change freed up, with Jamison's deal being an expiring at that point.

The issue with Vince is that he plays when he wants to, regardless of any outside influence. There are nights when he plays NBA first team level basketball. Even at his current age and health, he can get to the rim at will and make plays no one (except maybe Lebron) can. But then there are nights when he shows up, shoots aloof jumpers without ever venturing in the paint, stands upright and stationary on D, etc. He played this way for Toronto for an entire year before getting traded for crap, then temporarily reverting to elite level.

I don't want any part of this arguement, but it would be naive to say that Vince does not have a reputation as a soft me-first guy. He does. Its all part of the Vince Carter enigma. New Jersey signed him to an extension, and then was actively shopping him within a month or two.

Suffice to say, Vince can still be a game winning difference maker when he wants to be.

And put me in the camp agreeing that there is absolutely zero chance that Washington would be interested in aquiring Redd.

RJ maybe.

Redd to Washington makes zero sense from an on court or financial perspective.

Wiz fan here. First off, our beat writers typically don't have good opinions about basketball. Michael Lee is a lot better than Ivan Carter, but I still don't read them much because I either don't learn anything or I find major flaws in their reporting or views. In other words - Michael Lee saying that RJ is a great fit means nothing to me.

I actually think Jefferson would be a horrible fit in DC, both position-wise and financially. He's not a shooting guard and to play him there is to play him out of position IMO. We already tried the "use a SF at SG' idea with Caron Butler last year and it was a failure. He just wasn't as good playing SG, and I absolutely expect that the same would happen with Jefferson. And if the guy isn't as effective playing out of position, why pay him all that money or give up assets to acquire him? So adding RJ to our current core is not an option IMO. I'd much rather go after guys like Richard Hamilton or even Vince Carter (although many don't like him) because they are true backcourt players.

Now if the Wiz traded Butler to get a big like Bosh or Stoudamire (assuming that one or the other is actually available) then I'd absolutely trade Jamison for Jefferson to get a starter at SF who can defend. Not sure if that works for you guys, though. Having Mbah a Moute at the other forward would allow Jamison to take the easier defensive matchup and you would open up more potential minutes for Joe Alexander. But having Jamison+Redd on the floor at the same time makes you smaller, slower, and softer.

In the end, I probably don't see the Wiz/Bucks as good trade partners.