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Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included)

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Should the Bucks match the 4-year/$16 million dollar offer sheet?

Yes, Sessions is worth this deal. Figure out the luxury tax issues via other moves.
173
72%
No, Sessions is not worth it. Let him go to Minnesota
68
28%
 
Total votes: 241

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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#61 » by BDUB_30 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:18 pm

MajorDad wrote:I can't see any team wanting ridnour. Any team that accepts ridnour is going to want to exchange garbage back to us in return or demand we throw in a first round pick to take ridnour off our hands. . they are not just going to take ridnour off our hands for nothing. And the bucks have too many players already to take more players back in return. the clippers just gave an offer to Arryo. Face it, hammond really screwed this entire summer, and also past season away.

perhaps hammond can trade Warrick or Delfino or potsie too. based on how many other teams were interested in Warrick, i'd say the chance of that is ZERO !!!!

if hammond wants to salvage the Summer, he should make an offer to felton or iverson. Iverson would help the bucks secure that top draft pick and fill some seats in the arena. I've always felt felton was a better pg than Sessions. I could care less what their stats reflect. if the bucks want to sign a Pg for 4 years, i'd rather they signed felton over Sessions.

i hate to say it, but all the talk about the bucks making a bunch of other trades once the Sessions thing was resolved all came from Bucks real gm posters or other internet fan blog sites, not from the bucks. it was interesting to read that the knicks hadn't talked to the twolves about Rubio for the past 2 months. yet internet fan sites said they were constantly talking trying to work out a deal.

it should be noted hammond almost had a sign and trade deal agreed upon a month ago, but he decided to play the GM waiting game instead to wait Sessions out. Anybody want to agree with me now as to the stupidity of GMs playing that waiting game? it's a stupid game and produces no winners. but it's on page 15 of Hammond's GM manual and stupid posters all believe that's what GMs should do so they can save money and get the player at the lowest possible salary. What happens when you don't get the player? YOU LOSE!

I'd rather have kohl work on giving us an affordable health care plan than give us Sessions. That, after all is his real job and where his priorities should be. it's time the Senator went back to being a Senator, and left the bucks to wallow in their sorrow.

My guess is Charlie bell is happy. on draft night, jennings said to all who refused to listen, that Sessions was gone. perhaps some review of his draft night words might be in order.




Your crazy as hell if you think JH has any interest in trading Ridnour , as is anyone else with this train of thought .


If youre going to move ridnour you with out a doubt must get back a better talent not equivlant to Ridnour , but equivlant to what JH can do with 6.5 millon dollars in 2010.



You think Hammond is going to give up that flexability just to sign Ramon ? :lol: Let me get this straight . Hammond is going to give up 6.5m in roster space in 2010 , have no vet pg expirence for the 09/10 season , just to make room for a guy his coach said cant run an nba offense ? For a guy Hammond himself said " shouldnt call himself an nba pg " .


Ridnour fills a need now , and provides a nice amount of flexability going down the road . The only way he goes is if we get back talent on a level that exceeds what John Hammond can do with 6.5 mil in 2010. and i would even argue that the talent has to be an nba pg concidering were not going to trust the entire season on weather or not BJ can learn the offense .


Why the hell would we give up roster flexability to another team and PAY them to do it ? 6.5 millon next year will come in very useful.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#62 » by MajorDad » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:21 pm

hammond has finally bought into the bigelow plan. be as bad as possible from DAY 1. tank the entire season rather than starting to tank away the season in march. the bucks have tanked man y seasons, but never from day 1 before.

it's kind of obvious what hammond is doing. he Is REBUILDING ! and he has no real plan of being better until 2011. hammond even said the future looks good in 2011 in one of his press conferences last year.

we've all said we'd rather be really bad than being the 9th best team in the east.. Hammond is trying to please us. be satisfied. it's what the majority of you wanted, demanded and hoped for.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#63 » by carmelbrownqueen » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:22 pm

If the Bucks act as expected (in my opinion) and don't match this deal for Ramon, I'm sure it will always be perceived (by fans) that it was done strictly because of luxury tax issues. However I think it goes deeper than that.. Ramon showed improvement last year in some areas but not in others.. he's not the leader they need him to be, has limited defensive potential, and most importantly they don't trust him to be a full time floor general for this team. These are huge issues when you are talking about the guy who is supposed to be the floor general for your team going forward, and they can't be overlooked. Perhaps they will end up being wrong about him and Brandon Jennings, but ultimately they are willing to take the risk based on their assessment of Sessions long term abilities. I don't have to like it or agree with it (many of the criticisms I do agree with though).. and hopefully they end up being right in the end, but I am not isolating this decision (like many) to an issue of the lux tax alone.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#64 » by LUKE23 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:23 pm

For the people against this deal, I will ask again:

name me the non-rookie salary PG's that are a better value than Ramon Sessions at $4M per year.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#65 » by LUKE23 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:24 pm

carmelbrownqueen wrote:If the Bucks act as expected (in my opinion) and don't match this deal for Ramon, I'm sure it will always be perceived (by fans) that it was done strictly because of luxury tax issues. However I think it goes deeper than that.. Ramon showed improvement last year in some areas but not in others.. he's not the leader they need him to be, has limited defensive potential, and most importantly they don't trust him to be a full time floor general for this team. These are huge issues when you are talking about the guy who is supposed to be the floor general for your team going forward, and they can't be overlooked. Perhaps they will end up being wrong about him and Brandon Jennings, but ultimately they are willing to take the risk based on their assessment of Sessions long term abilities. I don't have to like it or agree with it (many of the criticisms I do agree with though).. and hopefully they end up being right in the end, but I am not isolating this decision (like many) to an issue of the lux tax alone.


He's played 95 f'ing games, and you can make all those claims about him? I will expect that 1/7 through next season Jennings isn't a stud, you will be saying the same things about him.

To act like Sessions is not going to improve at age 23 is just ridiculous.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#66 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:24 pm

Wise1 wrote:Four years is too long for a player that will be a backup and clearly is not an impact player.


I think you anti-Sessions guys are now needing to drop back into the "four-years is too long" camp since the yearly starting at $3.7 million is pretty reasonable.

We'll never have anyone decent filling the 6th-10th man roles on this team if your standards are that tight.

Besides, I can't think of one GM of a contending 50-win team being prevented from winning said 50-games because they had a medium term $4 million dollar contract on their payroll. This situation is a speck of sand compared to the Redd/Gadz/Simmons/RJ debacles.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#67 » by LUKE23 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:26 pm

I think you anti-Sessions guys are now needing to drop back into the "four-years is too long" camp since the yearly starting at $3.7 million is pretty reasonable.

We'll never have anyone decent filling the 6th-10th man roles on this team if your standards are that tight.


Yep. It's amazing to me that people don't want to spend that money on Sessions, but then are fine with other Hammond moves this offseason. How do people think we are going to fill our roster in future years? You think we're going to sign a bunch of better value deals than what Ramon is getting? GET REAL.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#68 » by InsideOut » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:26 pm

carmelbrownqueen wrote:
tim_ wrote:Tell me guys, I'm a Wolves fan. Should I be excited for Sessions? What do you guys see from him in the future, whether or not the Bucks match?
Sessions is a nice young player that worked really hard previous offseasons with our player development coach. He has some upside but not as much as some of the diehard fans on this board want to believe. In general I like him and think he's a good young player. I don't believe he's a starting PG, and I don't think he was worth over $3 million per but I think you will like him. He's a nice kid. I wish him luck in Minny.


So you like him as he has some upside, is a hard worker and you feel he is a good young player. If this isn't a guy you think we should keep I'd be interested in hearing your description of the players you do think we should keep. Would that description cover guys like Ridnour, JA, Delfino, Elson, Sharpe, KT, Ukic or Warrick?
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#69 » by Bernman » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:28 pm

Wise1 wrote:Four years is too long for a player that will be a backup and clearly is not an impact player. No wasted dollars on mediocre talent until the Bucks are first able to use their earmarked future dollars on hopefully an allstar caliber frontcourt player.

Also, trading Ramon's contract at a later date is not as easy as some of you would like to believe. It is indeed a gamble since there are so many point guards in the league already that are as good as Ramon or better. Why trade for Ramon when you have someone that is just as good but may be cheaper or at the very least has similar talent and a similar contract?

What if the Bucks luck up and draft a John Wall? How will Sessions' deal look then getting virtually no minutes on this team? I think Meeks will prove to be a better 2 guard than Sessions would be.

We can't invest 16mil in a backup until we've firmly put into place our longterm pieces at every starting position.


1. The deal being long term means nothing if you don't factor in the dollar per year amount.
2. Him being a backup and clearly not an impact player is speculative anyways.

This is really about not wanting Ramon back because he'll threatening the playing time of your boy Brandon Jennings. Brandon Jennings is a 19-year old who sucked in Europe last season. You and he can both wait a year or two for him to enter the starting lineup, if the goal is for the Bucks to win the most games in the interim. Which it is, and speaking of which, if Ramon returned, then the chances the Bucks would pick high enough to procure John Wall are slim to none as a result. Therefore, that's a false dilemma.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#70 » by Newz » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:29 pm

I have no problems paying a back-up point guard $3.7 million that can score, distribute and play some 2-guard when asked. I think this is a reasonable price for Sessions, I would match it if it was possible. He would be a solid 'combo guard' off of the bench at this price, in my opinion.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#71 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:29 pm

carmelbrownqueen wrote:they don't trust him to be a full time floor general for this team.


I do not disagree with that.

But does that prevent you from trusting him to be your 3rd or 4th guard in the rotation? Think of how nice it was for Toronto to have that TJ/Calderon platoon. We can have that the next four years for about $6-8 million in total. For four years.

I remember that one reason we let ZaZa go was over not wanting to have a malcontent for matching. I hope that consideration doesn't show in this one.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#72 » by blueedwards » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:29 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Wise1 wrote:Four years is too long for a player that will be a backup and clearly is not an impact player.


I think you anti-Sessions guys are now needing to drop back into the "four-years is too long" camp since the yearly starting at $3.7 million is pretty reasonable.

We'll never have anyone decent filling the 6th-10th man roles on this team if your standards are that tight.

Besides, I can't think of one GM of a contending 50-win team being prevented from winning said 50-games because they had a medium term $4 million dollar contract on their payroll. This situation is a speck of sand compared to the Redd/Gadz/Simmons/RJ debacles.
True that holmes! :wink:
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#73 » by MilBucksBackOnTop06 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:29 pm

Hell no!

It does not come down to what he is "worth." Probably you can say it all comes down to what he deserves or what value do you have for him now or down the road.

But IMHO, technically he is worth whatever some fool team pays him, like the Wolves or what the market can bear.

I say, he lucked out and waited until the fallback Wolves who passed on OJ Mayo one year, and then traded Foye a budding star another year and then botched a draft by taking Rubio over Derozan or even Curry this year...

A complete laughingstock of a team. Let him go. He won't win there either! The only way you match is to work out a sign and trade deal for him to dump more salary on the Wolves and take back something from them perhaps...

Some players only get better and develop when they are around better players. that is Sessions. And some players will never max out what they can be playing with scrubs or those with equal or sub par abilities not much better then their own.

He got paid and got richer, but his game just got weaker...Good luck Wolves. You will need it!!! No one on that team will make him better or valuable. Not even Flynn. Their games clash...and Flynn has a learning curve himself in his rookie year.

Flynn needs finishers and shooters. Sessions is neither...Good luck Kurt Rambis. They should have hired Mark Jackson or Avery Johnson...although they made up for it hiring Bill Laimbeer. That was a great hire...But no do not match this.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#74 » by carmelbrownqueen » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
carmelbrownqueen wrote:If the Bucks act as expected (in my opinion) and don't match this deal for Ramon, I'm sure it will always be perceived (by fans) that it was done strictly because of luxury tax issues. However I think it goes deeper than that.. Ramon showed improvement last year in some areas but not in others.. he's not the leader they need him to be, has limited defensive potential, and most importantly they don't trust him to be a full time floor general for this team. These are huge issues when you are talking about the guy who is supposed to be the floor general for your team going forward, and they can't be overlooked. Perhaps they will end up being wrong about him and Brandon Jennings, but ultimately they are willing to take the risk based on their assessment of Sessions long term abilities. I don't have to like it or agree with it (many of the criticisms I do agree with though).. and hopefully they end up being right in the end, but I am not isolating this decision (like many) to an issue of the lux tax alone.


He's played 95 f'ing games, and you can make all those claims about him? I will expect that 1/7 through next season Jennings isn't a stud, you will be saying the same things about him.

To act like Sessions is not going to improve at age 23 is just ridiculous.
It's okay that you are gung-ho to re-sign Sessions at whatever the cost and declare him as a player with higher upside than I project but it isn't okay for me to think alternately? Wow.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#75 » by BDUB_30 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

LUKE23 wrote:For the people against this deal, I will ask again:

name me the non-rookie salary PG's that are a better value than Ramon Sessions at $4M per year.



This is the garage sale shopping approach to building a roster . Hey look ,its fairly priced lets get it . The question is weather or not we NEED IT . The answer is , we dont.

As this roster stands now , were not in need of a pg. Thats just the bottom line and its being ignored by some who are slaves to this "value " approach of building a roster . Somewhere along the lines you got confused that the process of building a team is not solely related to stacking fair contracts . Somewhere in the process you have to look at the ingrediants youre putting into the pot and ask if its the right mixture. Putting Ramon into the pot at this point is like putting a slice of watermelon into spagetti sauce .


Hammond knew this from day one . He knew that Ramon even before BJ was bad for the mix. Smart fans that dont just follow box scores so it on the court. Lots of people wanted no part of having a young selfish pg who cant run the offense to be part of this team longterm. At 2 mil or 5 mil it doesnt matter , he simply doesnt fit here . A non shooting , non defending , over dribbiling , blind pg leaves alot to be desired .
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#76 » by Bernman » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Wise1 wrote:Four years is too long for a player that will be a backup and clearly is not an impact player.


I think you anti-Sessions guys are now needing to drop back into the "four-years is too long" camp since the yearly starting at $3.7 million is pretty reasonable.

We'll never have anyone decent filling the 6th-10th man roles on this team if your standards are that tight.

Besides, I can't think of one GM of a contending 50-win team being prevented from winning said 50-games because they had a medium term $4 million dollar contract on their payroll. This situation is a speck of sand compared to the Redd/Gadz/Simmons/RJ debacles.


Well said......and owned.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#77 » by LISTEN2JAZZ » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:31 pm

I still maintain that the people who don't like Sessions at this price are either comparing him to all-star players like Billups who make 2-3x as much money, or to fictional players that they assume exist but who can't be named specifically.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#78 » by Chapter29 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:31 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:As I said in the other thread, this is ZaZa all over again. This should be a no-brainer to match. Hammond should be grateful someone did his work for him and the contract is neither full MLE nor five-years.


Yep.
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#79 » by LUKE23 » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:32 pm

1. Where did I say "at any cost"? Never did.
2 We're talking about the contract in question. Anyone that is saying $4M is too high based on what Sessions has shown is not being truthful about his abilities, or is just way off, one of the two.
3. It is common sense to expect a 23 year old player that has played 95 games to improve? I'm guessing you agree? If not, then Alexander, LRMAM, Bogut, and Ersan all are done improving for sure, correct?
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Re: Ramon Sessions T-Wolves offer: Do we match? (poll included) 

Post#80 » by Redd Shaman » Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:32 pm

"Yes, Sessions is worth this deal. Figure out the luxury tax issues via other moves. "

Yes please.
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