WCS Game 5: Minnesota at Denver, Tuesday

[life_saver]

Our spacing with some of these lineups is terrible. Also SloMo shouldn't play a single minute for rest of the series

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[m2002brian]

Not sure about this tbh...Murray has mostly been contained in this series bar 1 game..Wolves have also done a good job on MPJ after G1. I think the role players making shots has been the major difference. Also, if KAT had a G5 type performance in G4, then we could have won the G4...it's like our team rarely has games where both Ant + KAT go off.

This isn’t some anomaly. This is a skill flaw. (Cough Kat)
For as long as they’ve been playing together (4 years) to not have any sort of consistent 2 man game is a detriment to the team.
KAT is who KAT is, and their ability to play off each other is what it is.
Sometimes you have to just accept such things and either live with it or move on.

Ant has already learned to get off the ball and pass out of a double. Ant has learned to find the other guys. KAT still struggles to find anybody but KAT

[shrink]

This also isn't uncommon for a rising team/star to encounter. MJ vs Pistons, LBJ vs Pistons, Wade vs Pistons, Den vs GS, etc; If the wolves can get by Den, I would think they'd be the strong favorite going forward.

Excellent point. I still remember what a big deal it was for the Bulls to finally get out of Round 1, with that shot over Ehlo!

[KATKlownFeet]

After 5 games against Denver, here is the plus/minus for all Wolves (excluding garbage time crew) from best to worst:

Mike Conley: + 18
Jordan McLaughlin: +12
Rudy Gobert: +9
Monte Morris: +2
Jaden McDaniels: 0
Anthony Edwards: -11
KAT: -18
Naz: -34
SloMo: -34
NAW: -62

Gobert while he's been somewhat disappointing lately, but as the above stats show, he's not been our biggest problem. SloMo has been bad, but NAW has been awful. Also, Conley is essential and we need him to run the offense. A NAW run offense struggles (only 97 points) and when NAW is given extra duties as a ballhandler, his defense suffers. Hopefully, Conley plays but if not I'd rather go with Morris or even Jordan Mac before starting NAW.

[jpatrick]

Our spacing with some of these lineups is terrible. Also SloMo shouldn't play a single minute for rest of the series

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This is crazy but was 100% how they have played the last three games. Last night when Ant kicked it out, outside of early shots by NAW, most guys didn’t even shoot the open shot, just drove into traffic. Those spacing problems are survivable in the regular season, but playoffs, where scheming/game planning is ramped up, no way.

Gobert, Anderson, McDaniels are all problems. And even NAW and Morris are not consistent shooters.

[Calinks]

Not going to over react to this. We have a great team this year, Denver is still just better it seems and that is largely due to their MVP who is one of the best of all time. Murray and Gordon have shown multiple flashes though that have made them better than anyone else on our team outside of Ant.

Gordon has been amazing in his role, he knows exactly what he needs to do and he has done it the last few games. Murray has come up big when he needed it.

Our offense is just not on par with Denver, they can get buckets when they need them at any team, we cannot. They have also out-coached us with how they are deploying their players.

We are simply getting beat on multiple fronts and nothing other than an otherworld performance from one or two of our guys would have changed that. Maybe if our bench played a lot sharper, maybe if we could consistently force some more stops, but we haven't been able to do that.

If we lose tomorrow, it will be time to give Denver their flowers and our team will have to reassess and retool some more. It looks like we just aren't there yet, and that's ok, we still had a hell of a season, we got further than we have been in 20 years, and gained a lot of experience.

This is also another lesson in how important it is to hold on to the rope all year (which we mostly did) and get that number 1 seed. I think we would have made it to the WCF without much fuss if had that top seed though we still probably have a hard time against Denver after that.

Conelly will get back on his horse and find a way to make us better.

Not sure about this tbh...Murray has mostly been contained in this series bar 1 game..Wolves have also done a good job on MPJ after G1. I think the role players making shots has been the major difference. Also, if KAT had a G5 type performance in G4, then we could have won the G4...it's like our team rarely has games where both Ant + KAT go off.

I agree about the KAT and Ant thing. I have said before, we haven't found a great offensive role for Towns with this team. He has found a good role and he has played it really well this season but I still don't think we are using him optimally on offense at all. I am sure it harder to do with Rudy taking up space and Ant getting his.

I really wished we were able to develop a good two man game between Towns and Edwards. They don't have any of that chemistry, they don't play off each other or enhance each other like Jokic and Murray or even Jokic and Gordon. They just don't have any real bankable way to get consistent offense together. Its more one night Ant has it or one night Towns has it. Its been really rare where they both blew up on a team.

Our offense overall has been disappointing, part of that is personnel, we just don't have ball handlers and shooters, but the other part is our chemistry still isn't there either. Fortunately we developed great chemistry on defense this year but the offense has a ways to go.

[life_saver]

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[Colbinii]

Not going to over react to this. We have a great team this year, Denver is still just better it seems and that is largely due to their MVP who is one of the best of all time. Murray and Gordon have shown multiple flashes though that have made them better than anyone else on our team outside of Ant.

Gordon has been amazing in his role, he knows exactly what he needs to do and he has done it the last few games. Murray has come up big when he needed it.

Our offense is just not on par with Denver, they can get buckets when they need them at any team, we cannot. They have also out-coached us with how they are deploying their players.

We are simply getting beat on multiple fronts and nothing other than an otherworld performance from one or two of our guys would have changed that. Maybe if our bench played a lot sharper, maybe if we could consistently force some more stops, but we haven't been able to do that.

If we lose tomorrow, it will be time to give Denver their flowers and our team will have to reassess and retool some more. It looks like we just aren't there yet, and that's ok, we still had a hell of a season, we got further than we have been in 20 years, and gained a lot of experience.

This is also another lesson in how important it is to hold on to the rope all year (which we mostly did) and get that number 1 seed. I think we would have made it to the WCF without much fuss if had that top seed though we still probably have a hard time against Denver after that.

Conelly will get back on his horse and find a way to make us better.

Not sure about this tbh...Murray has mostly been contained in this series bar 1 game..Wolves have also done a good job on MPJ after G1. I think the role players making shots has been the major difference. Also, if KAT had a G5 type performance in G4, then we could have won the G4...it's like our team rarely has games where both Ant + KAT go off.

I agree about the KAT and Ant thing. I have said before, we haven't found a great offensive role for Towns with this team. He has found a good role and he has played it really well this season but I still don't think we are using him optimally on offense at all. I am sure it harder to do with Rudy taking up space and Ant getting his.

I really wished we were able to develop a good two man game between Towns and Edwards. They don't have any of that chemistry, they don't play off each other or enhance each other like Jokic and Murray or even Jokic and Gordon. They just don't have any real bankable way to get consistent offense together. Its more one night Ant has it or one night Towns has it. Its been really rare where they both blew up on a team.

Our offense overall has been disappointing, part of that is personnel, we just don't have ball handlers and shooters, but the other part is our chemistry still isn't there either. Fortunately we developed great chemistry on defense this year but the offense has a ways to go.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

[jpatrick]

Not sure about this tbh...Murray has mostly been contained in this series bar 1 game..Wolves have also done a good job on MPJ after G1. I think the role players making shots has been the major difference. Also, if KAT had a G5 type performance in G4, then we could have won the G4...it's like our team rarely has games where both Ant + KAT go off.

I agree about the KAT and Ant thing. I have said before, we haven't found a great offensive role for Towns with this team. He has found a good role and he has played it really well this season but I still don't think we are using him optimally on offense at all. I am sure it harder to do with Rudy taking up space and Ant getting his.

I really wished we were able to develop a good two man game between Towns and Edwards. They don't have any of that chemistry, they don't play off each other or enhance each other like Jokic and Murray or even Jokic and Gordon. They just don't have any real bankable way to get consistent offense together. Its more one night Ant has it or one night Towns has it. Its been really rare where they both blew up on a team.

Our offense overall has been disappointing, part of that is personnel, we just don't have ball handlers and shooters, but the other part is our chemistry still isn't there either. Fortunately we developed great chemistry on defense this year but the offense has a ways to go.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

If we lose game six, I think there is at least a decent chance KAT gets moved. But it’ll be for money. Not because of maximizing Ant. KAT is really the only consistent floor spacer in that starting lineup outside of Conley and I’m not sure how much his body has left. If we trade KAT for a PF that isn’t a premium shooter, we are cooked.

Even if McDaniels shows some improvement in shooting, I don’t think he’ll ever be a guy teams respect out there. It’ll be how we play Aaron Gordon. He may make some, but we’re going to give him that shot.

[Note30]

Not sure about this tbh...Murray has mostly been contained in this series bar 1 game..Wolves have also done a good job on MPJ after G1. I think the role players making shots has been the major difference. Also, if KAT had a G5 type performance in G4, then we could have won the G4...it's like our team rarely has games where both Ant + KAT go off.

I agree about the KAT and Ant thing. I have said before, we haven't found a great offensive role for Towns with this team. He has found a good role and he has played it really well this season but I still don't think we are using him optimally on offense at all. I am sure it harder to do with Rudy taking up space and Ant getting his.

I really wished we were able to develop a good two man game between Towns and Edwards. They don't have any of that chemistry, they don't play off each other or enhance each other like Jokic and Murray or even Jokic and Gordon. They just don't have any real bankable way to get consistent offense together. Its more one night Ant has it or one night Towns has it. Its been really rare where they both blew up on a team.

Our offense overall has been disappointing, part of that is personnel, we just don't have ball handlers and shooters, but the other part is our chemistry still isn't there either. Fortunately we developed great chemistry on defense this year but the offense has a ways to go.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

Considering what we just watched, there's some pretty odd statements on here.

No one except Ant isn't movable.

[m2002brian]

Zion if healthy would give us a mini shaq and mj/wade combo

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I'm really worry about Jaden. At the price we will pay him, he need to be able to score at leat 15 per games or it will be a problem. His defense is huge but we need more offense from him.
Slomo is so bad this year, it's a shame after playing so well last year. When him , Rudy and Jaden are on the court, all Denver has to do is to double ANT and we are done.
Hope Mike is playing. We need him badly if we want to have a chance in game 6.

[TimberKat]

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It's a mind game right? They knew he wants to take over and the ball will be sticky with him. DEN wants to see if he makes the correct play. He needs to pass it out even though JMcD aren't making the shots.

[TimberKat]

Our spacing with some of these lineups is terrible. Also SloMo shouldn't play a single minute for rest of the series

Read on Twitter

I don't remember what happened on this play but looks like it should be a pass to Gobert or to the corner to JMcD, assuming the low guy goes out. KA would have a small guy on him. Either take the shot or pass to Gobert or back to Ant. Ant can pass to Morris first then to JMcD. My point is if Ant draws three like that, his job is done and we have the advantage.

[Colbinii]

I agree about the KAT and Ant thing. I have said before, we haven't found a great offensive role for Towns with this team. He has found a good role and he has played it really well this season but I still don't think we are using him optimally on offense at all. I am sure it harder to do with Rudy taking up space and Ant getting his.

I really wished we were able to develop a good two man game between Towns and Edwards. They don't have any of that chemistry, they don't play off each other or enhance each other like Jokic and Murray or even Jokic and Gordon. They just don't have any real bankable way to get consistent offense together. Its more one night Ant has it or one night Towns has it. Its been really rare where they both blew up on a team.

Our offense overall has been disappointing, part of that is personnel, we just don't have ball handlers and shooters, but the other part is our chemistry still isn't there either. Fortunately we developed great chemistry on defense this year but the offense has a ways to go.

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

Considering what we just watched, there's some pretty odd statements on here.

No one except Ant isn't movable.

What's odd?

Gobert has been tremendous. McDaniels fits a key role as a 3/4 who can defend 1-4. Conley is signed to a 2 year extension.

[cmoss84]

I'm really worry about Jaden. At the price we will pay him, he need to be able to score at leat 15 per games or it will be a problem. His defense is huge but we need more offense from him.
Slomo is so bad this year, it's a shame after playing so well last year. When him , Rudy and Jaden are on the court, all Denver has to do is to double ANT and we are done.
Hope Mike is playing. We need him badly if we want to have a chance in game 6.

I still have a hard time believing he doesn't eventually average close to 20. If I am coach...I give him a mindset of getting a dunk (or anything close range) and a 3 every quarter. He is way too talented.

[Note30]

I'm really worry about Jaden. At the price we will pay him, he need to be able to score at leat 15 per games or it will be a problem. His defense is huge but we need more offense from him.
Slomo is so bad this year, it's a shame after playing so well last year. When him , Rudy and Jaden are on the court, all Denver has to do is to double ANT and we are done.
Hope Mike is playing. We need him badly if we want to have a chance in game 6.

I still have a hard time believing he doesn't eventually average close to 20. If I am coach...I give him a mindset of getting a dunk (or anything close range) and a 3 every quarter. He is way too talented.

Is he? He's doing **** all to score. Even when gets the ball nothing. Great defense, decent transition scorer, total non factor on the other end.

[Note30]

Good stuff here.

It's important we get to the point where we realize ANT can be the best player on a Championship team. The last 2 players who played like him and his size were Dwyane Wade and Michael Jordan (Jordan has about 2, inches on ANT but similar styles).

When you have a player who can be the best player on a title team, the clock starts to tick. How can you put the right players around him to win and maximize both him [ANT] and players around him.

Rudy Gobert is clearly maximized or close to it. Dude is balling out defensively, has incredible +/- indicators and is playing defense at the highest level against this Nuggets team.

Mike Conley and other Point Guards who can shoot off the catch, defend at a positive level and control the flow and pace of a game are excellent fits. They get ANT the ball in a timely manner and understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game and the tempo of a game.

McDaniels makes for a perfect wing pairing defensively and is accepting of any role offensively. I want(ed) to see more growth from him offensively but he still provides so much defensively by eating up the hardest defensive assignment to allow ANT to flourish offensively.

I think KAT ends up sort of being this odd-man out. He is supremely talented, and he has shown to be a good fit but not consistently enough. We have seen KAT play for nearly a decade now and he is what he is. He is the best Big man shooter of all-time. He can also be sloppy, foul prone and lack of Pick and Roll effectiveness hurts his off-ball impact, even as a supremely talented shooter.

KAT shouldn't and won't be moved for pennies on the dollar, but Minnesota should try to identify a player or players who can fit better NOW and moving forward. I doubt KAT does get moved, but Connelly is going to be doing everything he can to put this team over the hump, and Towns is a major sticking point in getting over that hump, especially with the limited assets this team has.

Considering what we just watched, there's some pretty odd statements on here.

No one except Ant isn't movable.

What's odd?

Gobert has been tremendous. McDaniels fits a key role as a 3/4 who can defend 1-4. Conley is signed to a 2 year extension.

No one besides Ant has been of any use these past 3 games.

[shrink]

Our spacing with some of these lineups is terrible. Also SloMo shouldn't play a single minute for rest of the series

Read on Twitter

I don't remember what happened on this play but looks like it should be a pass to Gobert or to the corner to JMcD, assuming the low guy goes out. KA would have a small guy on him. Either take the shot or pass to Gobert or back to Ant. Ant can pass to Morris first then to JMcD. My point is if Ant draws three like that, his job is done and we have the advantage.

This is what I noticed too. When Towns went down six weeks ago and teams could focus on doubling Ant regularly, I was very pleased how Ant made a lot of growth figuring out how to pass out of the double team. And to his credit, he has been able to make the kick out passes to teammates for three pointers. Not his fault that so many are missing open shots.

Unfortunately, he still really struggles to feed Gobert. This picture, with Rudy open, with his hands in the air, is repeated twenty times a night. Gobert sets a screen, rolls to the basket, and Ant never gets him the ball, and is stuck with both defenders on him. On the rare occasion he does feed Rudy, the pass is too late, Gobert has finished the roll and a new player has picked him up.

It might be too late in the season for Ant to develop this skill. However, it makes me excited for next year. Ant is very coachable, and we have the best guy in the NBA, Mike Conley, to teach him how to use Rudy. Gobert is one of the best screeners in the NBA, and if Ant can learn how to use him as an option, as opposed to a guy that doesn’t get the pass and just brings a defender in the paint, then Gobert will magnify Ant’s talents.

[Foye]

After 5 games against Denver, here is the plus/minus for all Wolves (excluding garbage time crew) from best to worst:

Mike Conley: + 18
Jordan McLaughlin: +12
Rudy Gobert: +9
Monte Morris: +2
Jaden McDaniels: 0
Anthony Edwards: -11
KAT: -18
Naz: -34
SloMo: -34
NAW: -62

Gobert while he's been somewhat disappointing lately, but as the above stats show, he's not been our biggest problem. SloMo has been bad, but NAW has been awful. Also, Conley is essential and we need him to run the offense. A NAW run offense struggles (only 97 points) and when NAW is given extra duties as a ballhandler, his defense suffers. Hopefully, Conley plays but if not I'd rather go with Morris or even Jordan Mac before starting NAW.

If Mike Conley is out, Jordan McLaughlin is the way to go.
He is the only player on the roster somewhat capable of distributing the ball to others outside of Mike Conley.
Alexander-Walker is a great defender but it is confusing as hell to watch him with the ball in his hands. If he is the one initiating your offense you are in big trouble.
Also, you don't want to have Edwards handling the ball too much because it will wear him down and you want him to be a difference maker, not using his energy to bring up the ball every possession.

Anyway, good luck for game 6 and possible game 7. Regardless of the outcome a respectable season.