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Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#541 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 8:19 pm

cmoss84 wrote:KAT is traded. Just business.
To NY is my prediction.
Something like Donte, Mitchell, Bojan, and future 1st
For
KAT, Wendell, 2nd rd

OK, I fully understand that a certain power forward in New York is not popular here....HOWEVER I just want to say that from what I've seen from the current iteration of an offensive gameplan here, I wonder if a driving/bruising forward would have more success than Towns. I know everyone thinks spacing is sorely needed, but I think this team at it's core is physicality. And to me, Randle represents that more than Towns, especially if additional assets come along with him in the trade.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#542 » by BlacJacMac » Mon May 13, 2024 8:24 pm

Klomp wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:KAT is traded. Just business.
To NY is my prediction.
Something like Donte, Mitchell, Bojan, and future 1st
For
KAT, Wendell, 2nd rd

OK, I fully understand that a certain power forward in New York is not popular here....HOWEVER I just want to say that from what I've seen from the current iteration of an offensive gameplan here, I wonder if a driving/bruising forward would have more success than Towns. I know everyone thinks spacing is sorely needed, but I think this team at it's core is physicality. And to me, Randle represents that more than Towns, especially if additional assets come along with him in the trade.


Literally the #1 or #2 (the other is D'Lo) worst Playoff performs in NBA history relative to their regular season play...
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#543 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 8:29 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:Literally the #1 or #2 (the other is D'Lo) worst Playoff performs in NBA history relative to their regular season play...

I get it. However, people have said the same about Gobert, and he's a big reason why we're as far as we are today.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#544 » by BlacJacMac » Mon May 13, 2024 8:31 pm

Klomp wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:Literally the #1 or #2 (the other is D'Lo) worst Playoff performs in NBA history relative to their regular season play...

I get it. However, people have said the same about Gobert, and he's a big reason why we're as far as we are today.


But its Randle's offense that completely falls apart in the postseason. Probably because he's a high volume bad shooter and Playoff defenses amplify that.

His defense is consistently bad no matter what.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#545 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 8:48 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:But its Randle's offense that completely falls apart in the postseason. Probably because he's a high volume bad shooter and Playoff defenses amplify that.

His defense is consistently bad no matter what.

Randle has never played with someone the caliber of Anthony Edwards opening up driving lanes. Brunson is fine, but he's not Anthony Edwards. Not even close. I also think it's important to remind people...Chris Finch has a history with Julius Randle. When Randle was at his best and most efficient, Finch was around for that version of Randle. So was assistant Kevin Hanson. So was Dell Demps in the front office. I think they could potentially unlock something in him.

And as much as we hate to talk about it, our salary cap situation is a thing to monitor, no matter who is calling the shots. Even if there's not a mandate from above, creating cap flexibility through money-wise transactions is still helpful when we are about to have our 22-year old likely to make 30% of the cap plus other big-ticket players.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#546 » by BlacJacMac » Mon May 13, 2024 9:00 pm

Klomp wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:But its Randle's offense that completely falls apart in the postseason. Probably because he's a high volume bad shooter and Playoff defenses amplify that.

His defense is consistently bad no matter what.

Randle has never played with someone the caliber of Anthony Edwards opening up driving lanes. Brunson is fine, but he's not Anthony Edwards. Not even close. I also think it's important to remind people...Chris Finch has a history with Julius Randle. When Randle was at his best and most efficient, Finch was around for that version of Randle. So was assistant Kevin Hanson. So was Dell Demps in the front office. I think they could potentially unlock something in him.

And as much as we hate to talk about it, our salary cap situation is a thing to monitor, no matter who is calling the shots. Even if there's not a mandate from above, creating cap flexibility through money-wise transactions is still helpful when we are about to have our 22-year old likely to make 30% of the cap plus other big-ticket players.


Hopefully the 3 of them will tell Connelly to stay clear of him.

He's the very definition of "empty numbers".
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#547 » by shrink » Mon May 13, 2024 9:21 pm

Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

For the record, in 24 Playoff Games, Towns is .487 FG%, .413 3P%, .805 FT%, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 18.7 PPG
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#548 » by shrink » Mon May 13, 2024 9:22 pm

Randle is inferior to KAT in nearly every way, and there is no way anyone would want Towns and Thibs reunited.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#549 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 9:25 pm

shrink wrote:Randle is inferior to KAT in nearly every way, and there is no way anyone would want Towns and Thibs reunited.

New York is about more than just Thibs.

It's "home" for Karl.
The CAA connection.

Like it or not, these are significant factors.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#550 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 9:29 pm

shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

I never once said that. My discussion comes from two places.

1. Schematics
2. Financials

These are very real factors that shouldn't simply be lumped into "KAT sucks in playoffs"! I'd like to think I've earned enough over my 19 years to be viewed as providing more nuanced takes than that.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#551 » by shrink » Mon May 13, 2024 9:32 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

I never once said that.

And I never once said you did. You have been one of the most even-handed about Towns.

Some of these other posters (granted, I’m reading the General Board now too, but still…!) …
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#552 » by Klomp » Mon May 13, 2024 9:37 pm

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

I never once said that.

And I never once said you did. You have been one of the most even-handed about Towns.

Some of these other posters (granted, I’m reading the General Board now too, but still…!) …

OK good, I just wanted to clarify that, because there are some who are quick to see a trade idea in this thread and assume that the poster is desperate to trade the guy or has a vendetta against him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#553 » by shrink » Mon May 13, 2024 9:44 pm

Towns has always been nice to everyone, but if there was one guy he should dislike, it’s probably Thibs. He created the Jimmy situation by refusing to look for trades, he allowed Jimmy to blow up that practice, and he let Towns take the blame, irreparably damaging his reputation. Towns continued to be team-first in the media, refusing to engage while Jimmy controlled the story. Towns deserves better.

Now, I am interested in the idea of more of a bruiser if it isn’t Randle. But hard to find one that still is a good three point shooter to keep lanes open for Ant, quick enough to defend the perimeter, and wants to be in MIN, letting Ant get all the spotlight.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#554 » by Neeva » Mon May 13, 2024 11:20 pm

shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

For the record, in 24 Playoff Games, Towns is .487 FG%, .413 3P%, .805 FT%, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 18.7 PPG

He needs to score more, and stay out of foul trouble, he is payed like a superstar he needs to show why.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#555 » by minimus » Tue May 14, 2024 8:06 am

Neeva wrote:
shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

For the record, in 24 Playoff Games, Towns is .487 FG%, .413 3P%, .805 FT%, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 18.7 PPG

He needs to score more, and stay out of foul trouble, he is played like a superstar he needs to show why.


Here is a thing that bugs me.

Towns is definitely a unicorn: can shoot threes with great accuracy, can postup, can drive, can rebound and can defend a bit. But if I try to say his patent move that he can use to score in clutch there is not a single one. Here is why:

1) bigs usually uses postup to score, but in more perimeter oriented game this skill disappeared or to say better it is now more and more responsibility of all players to explore advantage in postups. Once a postup player Towns moved away from this in course of his career. Jokic is a good example of using quick decisive postup to score or create for others.

2) true wings can create his own shot or attack closeouts with drives. Towns was a very successful slasher in five-out system in first Finch years. Also team have started to use against him a wing to prevent from driving, with a big roaming in paint. Also Towns is prone to commit all kind of offensive fouls. Giannis is an example of slashing big. Towns slashing game is also predictable because he is a straight line driver who favours heavily finishes with right hand. See Jokic who is an elite finisher from short range with very weird long floaters.

3) bigs usually set and use screens as advantage, which can flow into DHO game, see Sabonis as example. But screens and passes is not Towns strength, because he is prone to set moving screens.

4) pure shooters can use screens as advantage, see Murray as example. Because of different body type Towns has never been a movement shooter.

5) another go-to move for big can be mid range shooting. Embiid is great at it with his hanging dribbling, Jokic has grown from mid range shooter to three point shooter. For some reason Towns never receives the ball in such situations, and when he receives it turns into least efficient postups from 18 ft.

6) Towns has great right hand, he can finish difficult layups, but his footwork is mediocre at best, which I believe limits his ability to earn free throws. Embiid and Jokic both have great timing, great footwork, making referees job easier.

I can sum up all things from above and I can't ONE go-to move that Towns can use to create scoring situation for himself in clutch. But I remember another great bigs who usually delegated scoring in clutch to his teammates: Tim Duncan and KG. But both player were description of fundamentals both offense and offense.

A-Rod mentioned that Towns had 17 technical fouls last season and 0 this season, also Towns showed extreme dedication and maturity in recovering from injury and keeping himself in excellent physical shape. This is basically the best version of Towns. Can Towns improve even more? I think big difference between Jokic and Towns development is that Nikola had as side kick for four years Paul Millsap a veteran who was one of the smartest PF, and right after DEN got Aaron Gordon. So Nikola has been playing for many years in almost ideal development environment, while Towns had probably the worst development environment in his first six years, plus multiple personal dramas. One thing that Towns certainly has been doing well is that this season he executing within team defense and offense. He does not have clutch DNA, nor feeling, but at least he is executing well when our coaching staff has prepared a game plan.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#556 » by TwolvesFanRome » Tue May 14, 2024 12:21 pm

I really like Johnson from ATL but idk what is his value right now.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#557 » by moss_is_1 » Tue May 14, 2024 2:45 pm

TwolvesFanRome wrote:I really like Johnson from ATL but idk what is his value right now.

I can't imagine ATL is willing to move him. He's about all the defense they have.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#558 » by Guest84 » Tue May 14, 2024 3:23 pm

Neeva wrote:
shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

For the record, in 24 Playoff Games, Towns is .487 FG%, .413 3P%, .805 FT%, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 18.7 PPG

He needs to score more, and stay out of foul trouble, he is payed like a superstar he needs to show why.


I preface by saying, I'm not on the trade Karl bandwagon yet. However, sometimes tough decisions have to be made and that's one the front office may have to discuss in the near future.

Secondly, stats can be a bit misleading. But if we're going use them, Karl's production has decreased each year in the playoffs. Although he's had some improvement this year vs years past, it's still not where you'd like it to be. Karl has shown to be an all-nba world talent in the "reg season" but come playoff time, something happens.

Now, I've noticed he has avg. fewer FGA in the playoffs so I'm sure it has to do game planning for him more. But that can't be an excuse for your all-nba player. I would love to see Karl success in a wolves uniform but I think the team has to take a hard look at whether or not his production in the playoffs is worth keeping around. Especially if he's the one taking himself out of games (fouls, etc) vs what the other team is actually doing.

We've seen we can get out the first round with Kat as the 2 but is he more of a 3 like Love/Bosh???
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#559 » by TimberKat » Tue May 14, 2024 3:32 pm

minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:
shrink wrote:Towns has been excellent in the first six games of the playoffs, especially with ridiculously hard defensive assignments and coming back from injury early.

But it doesn’t take more than two losses for people to ignore that, and jump back to “KAT sucks in the playoffs!”

For the record, in 24 Playoff Games, Towns is .487 FG%, .413 3P%, .805 FT%, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 18.7 PPG

He needs to score more, and stay out of foul trouble, he is played like a superstar he needs to show why.


Here is a thing that bugs me.

Towns is definitely a unicorn: can shoot threes with great accuracy, can postup, can drive, can rebound and can defend a bit. But if I try to say his patent move that he can use to score in clutch there is not a single one. Here is why:

1) bigs usually uses postup to score, but in more perimeter oriented game this skill disappeared or to say better it is now more and more responsibility of all players to explore advantage in postups. Once a postup player Towns moved away from this in course of his career. Jokic is a good example of using quick decisive postup to score or create for others.

2) true wings can create his own shot or attack closeouts with drives. Towns was a very successful slasher in five-out system in first Finch years. Also team have started to use against him a wing to prevent from driving, with a big roaming in paint. Also Towns is prone to commit all kind of offensive fouls. Giannis is an example of slashing big. Towns slashing game is also predictable because he is a straight line driver who favours heavily finishes with right hand. See Jokic who is an elite finisher from short range with very weird long floaters.

3) bigs usually set and use screens as advantage, which can flow into DHO game, see Sabonis as example. But screens and passes is not Towns strength, because he is prone to set moving screens.

4) pure shooters can use screens as advantage, see Murray as example. Because of different body type Towns has never been a movement shooter.

5) another go-to move for big can be mid range shooting. Embiid is great at it with his hanging dribbling, Jokic has grown from mid range shooter to three point shooter. For some reason Towns never receives the ball in such situations, and when he receives it turns into least efficient postups from 18 ft.

6) Towns has great right hand, he can finish difficult layups, but his footwork is mediocre at best, which I believe limits his ability to earn free throws. Embiid and Jokic both have great timing, great footwork, making referees job easier.

I can sum up all things from above and I can't ONE go-to move that Towns can use to create scoring situation for himself in clutch. But I remember another great bigs who usually delegated scoring in clutch to his teammates: Tim Duncan and KG. But both player were description of fundamentals both offense and offense.

A-Rod mentioned that Towns had 17 technical fouls last season and 0 this season, also Towns showed extreme dedication and maturity in recovering from injury and keeping himself in excellent physical shape. This is basically the best version of Towns. Can Towns improve even more? I think big difference between Jokic and Towns development is that Nikola had as side kick for four years Paul Millsap a veteran who was one of the smartest PF, and right after DEN got Aaron Gordon. So Nikola has been playing for many years in almost ideal development environment, while Towns had probably the worst development environment in his first six years, plus multiple personal dramas. One thing that Towns certainly has been doing well is that this season he executing within team defense and offense. He does not have clutch DNA, nor feeling, but at least he is executing well when our coaching staff has prepared a game plan.

Great summary. I feel the same. I think his best go to move right now is the low post - post up, like Jokic. He can't really create a 3 but shoots well if he is open. I am also wondering why we don't run pick and roll/pop with Ant? Although part of the reason maybe Ant would take the shot 90% of the time. That is why when the game isn't flowing, I like to see him post up to initiate. He still should take lots of 3s when it's available to him but he isn't going to do dribble fate away 3s or teams doesn't need to double team him out on the 3pt line.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#560 » by Guest84 » Tue May 14, 2024 4:00 pm

TimberKat wrote:
minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:He needs to score more, and stay out of foul trouble, he is played like a superstar he needs to show why.


Here is a thing that bugs me.

Towns is definitely a unicorn: can shoot threes with great accuracy, can postup, can drive, can rebound and can defend a bit. But if I try to say his patent move that he can use to score in clutch there is not a single one. Here is why:

1) bigs usually uses postup to score, but in more perimeter oriented game this skill disappeared or to say better it is now more and more responsibility of all players to explore advantage in postups. Once a postup player Towns moved away from this in course of his career. Jokic is a good example of using quick decisive postup to score or create for others.

2) true wings can create his own shot or attack closeouts with drives. Towns was a very successful slasher in five-out system in first Finch years. Also team have started to use against him a wing to prevent from driving, with a big roaming in paint. Also Towns is prone to commit all kind of offensive fouls. Giannis is an example of slashing big. Towns slashing game is also predictable because he is a straight line driver who favours heavily finishes with right hand. See Jokic who is an elite finisher from short range with very weird long floaters.

3) bigs usually set and use screens as advantage, which can flow into DHO game, see Sabonis as example. But screens and passes is not Towns strength, because he is prone to set moving screens.

4) pure shooters can use screens as advantage, see Murray as example. Because of different body type Towns has never been a movement shooter.

5) another go-to move for big can be mid range shooting. Embiid is great at it with his hanging dribbling, Jokic has grown from mid range shooter to three point shooter. For some reason Towns never receives the ball in such situations, and when he receives it turns into least efficient postups from 18 ft.

6) Towns has great right hand, he can finish difficult layups, but his footwork is mediocre at best, which I believe limits his ability to earn free throws. Embiid and Jokic both have great timing, great footwork, making referees job easier.

I can sum up all things from above and I can't ONE go-to move that Towns can use to create scoring situation for himself in clutch. But I remember another great bigs who usually delegated scoring in clutch to his teammates: Tim Duncan and KG. But both player were description of fundamentals both offense and offense.

A-Rod mentioned that Towns had 17 technical fouls last season and 0 this season, also Towns showed extreme dedication and maturity in recovering from injury and keeping himself in excellent physical shape. This is basically the best version of Towns. Can Towns improve even more? I think big difference between Jokic and Towns development is that Nikola had as side kick for four years Paul Millsap a veteran who was one of the smartest PF, and right after DEN got Aaron Gordon. So Nikola has been playing for many years in almost ideal development environment, while Towns had probably the worst development environment in his first six years, plus multiple personal dramas. One thing that Towns certainly has been doing well is that this season he executing within team defense and offense. He does not have clutch DNA, nor feeling, but at least he is executing well when our coaching staff has prepared a game plan.

Great summary. I feel the same. I think his best go to move right now is the low post - post up, like Jokic. He can't really create a 3 but shoots well if he is open. I am also wondering why we don't run pick and roll/pop with Ant? Although part of the reason maybe Ant would take the shot 90% of the time. That is why when the game isn't flowing, I like to see him post up to initiate. He still should take lots of 3s when it's available to him but he isn't going to do dribble fate away 3s or teams doesn't need to double team him out on the 3pt line.


Always wondered this too. Ant tends to use the PnR as a scoring option more so currently than play-making. But it could also have to with spacing/personnel. Karl is one of the few spacers on the court. But Karl isn't the best picker either.

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