What level of success would make the Gobert trade acceptable?

[urinesane]

Yeah I do.

The lineup would have been

(DLo/Conley)/Pat Bev/ NAW
Ant / Beasley
McDaniels / Prince
Anderson / Vanderbilt
Kessler / Reid

100% guarantee we'd still be in the same position.

Hell we could have even gotten Clarkson for Beasley, and we definitely would be in a better position.

Or we could have packaged DLo with picks for another better PG.

Any number of things we could have done and we still would have finished the same or better than we did this season.

Kessler is already a watered down version of Rudy.

The lineup would have been
DLO/PatBev
Ant/Beasley
McDaniels/Prince
Anderson/Vando
KAT/Reid/Kessler (I doubt Kessler would have been the starter right away even with KAT down).

You can't assume that the DLo for Conley/NAW trade would have still happened, just who we know we would have had going into the season (not saying it couldn't still happen, but that we can't know for sure).

Not sure how you can 100% guarantee a hypothetical (seems non-sensical), but I personally don't think that roster minus KAT for most of the year wins more than 35 games (considering how badly PatBev/Beasley played this season and the fact that Reid would have been forced to start a decent amount of games without Rudy to fall back on).

Maybe I should start another poll to see what others think about that hypothetical.

Dude are you just being argumentative?! YOU asked what the lineup would look like without KAT. So I made one without him and you added him back on.

Why would KAT no longer exist on the roster? I just said factor in that KAT still misses those games, but he still would play the 29 regular season games. It wouldn't change the depth chart for the 29 games he was able to play.

[Klomp]

Watch Markannen tape, he's already a decent replacement for Rudy he does exactly the same things except he has more of an offensive game.

Yeah the Conley trade might not have happened we may have moved for another PG or a better one.

Pat Bev played roughly the same for the Lakers and Bulls as he did for us, he just didn't have the same effect on the Lakers. He actually gets some of credit for the Bulls run and defense in the latter half of the year.

Beasley didn't play wildly different either, just slightly worse. But personally I don't see him as a massive needle mover either way.

Vando would have come in super helpful throughout all of this, plus the leadership Bev brought. Add in a semi decent replacement for Rudy in Kessler and we would have shaped up the same.

But go ahead make the poll.

-Markannen does exactly the same things as a multi-DPOY? Since when?!
-PatBev's per 36 numbers went from 13/6/6 in MIN to 8/4/3 in LAL to 8/6/4 in CHI. That's not roughly the same.
-Beasley played similarly, which is borderline rotation minutes on a team with decent depth. AKA he wasn't really that valuable here, just a volume guy.
-Vando was unleashed in LAL partly because he was no longer splitting time with another no-range big in Kessler. Same issue would've happened here had the trade not been made. One of them would be stymied.
-Kessler is great, but part of the reason for the volume blocks is that vets test the rookie. That has always happened. Gobert's block rates were higher as a young guy too. Eventually people stopped testing him. If Kessler's block rate stays sky high for the next 5-10 years, it means his peers don't respect his abilities. That's why Shawn Bradley (career 3.9 blk per36) isn't considered an all-timer but Alonzo Mourning (career 2.8 blk per36) is.

[Note30]

Watch Markannen tape, he's already a decent replacement for Rudy he does exactly the same things except he has more of an offensive game.

Yeah the Conley trade might not have happened we may have moved for another PG or a better one.

Pat Bev played roughly the same for the Lakers and Bulls as he did for us, he just didn't have the same effect on the Lakers. He actually gets some of credit for the Bulls run and defense in the latter half of the year.

Beasley didn't play wildly different either, just slightly worse. But personally I don't see him as a massive needle mover either way.

Vando would have come in super helpful throughout all of this, plus the leadership Bev brought. Add in a semi decent replacement for Rudy in Kessler and we would have shaped up the same.

But go ahead make the poll.

-Markannen does exactly the same things as a multi-DPOY? Since when?!
-PatBev's per 36 numbers went from 13/6/6 in MIN to 8/4/3 in LAL to 8/6/4 in CHI. That's not roughly the same.
-Beasley played similarly, which is borderline rotation minutes on a team with decent depth. AKA he wasn't really that valuable here, just a volume guy.
-Vando was unleashed in LAL partly because he was no longer splitting time with another no-range big in Kessler. Same issue would've happened here had the trade not been made. One of them would be stymied.
-Kessler is great, but part of the reason for the volume blocks is that vets test the rookie. That has always happened. Gobert's block rates were higher as a young guy too. Eventually people stopped testing him. If Kessler's block rate stays sky high for the next 5-10 years, it means his peers don't respect his abilities. That's why Shawn Bradley (career 3.9 blk per36) isn't considered an all-timer but Alonzo Mourning (career 2.8 blk per36) is.

- I meant Kessler
- Bev's real impact was never as a pure offensive player, it was morale and defense.
- That's what I said
- You can split them up and not have them play in the same rotation, there would be reduced minutes across the board anyhow if you're getting 4 players to take the spot of 1 or 2.
- So? ... The impact is still undeniable.

[urinesane]

Watch Markannen tape, he's already a decent replacement for Rudy he does exactly the same things except he has more of an offensive game.

Yeah the Conley trade might not have happened we may have moved for another PG or a better one.

Pat Bev played roughly the same for the Lakers and Bulls as he did for us, he just didn't have the same effect on the Lakers. He actually gets some of credit for the Bulls run and defense in the latter half of the year.

Beasley didn't play wildly different either, just slightly worse. But personally I don't see him as a massive needle mover either way.

Vando would have come in super helpful throughout all of this, plus the leadership Bev brought. Add in a semi decent replacement for Rudy in Kessler and we would have shaped up the same.

But go ahead make the poll.

-Markannen does exactly the same things as a multi-DPOY? Since when?!
-PatBev's per 36 numbers went from 13/6/6 in MIN to 8/4/3 in LAL to 8/6/4 in CHI. That's not roughly the same.
-Beasley played similarly, which is borderline rotation minutes on a team with decent depth. AKA he wasn't really that valuable here, just a volume guy.
-Vando was unleashed in LAL partly because he was no longer splitting time with another no-range big in Kessler. Same issue would've happened here had the trade not been made. One of them would be stymied.
-Kessler is great, but part of the reason for the volume blocks is that vets test the rookie. That has always happened. Gobert's block rates were higher as a young guy too. Eventually people stopped testing him. If Kessler's block rate stays sky high for the next 5-10 years, it means his peers don't respect his abilities. That's why Shawn Bradley (career 3.9 blk per36) isn't considered an all-timer but Alonzo Mourning (career 2.8 blk per36) is.

- I meant Kessler
- Bev's real impact was never as a pure offensive player, it was morale and defense.
- That's what I said
- You can split them up and not have them play in the same rotation, there would be reduced minutes across the board anyhow if you're getting 4 players to take the spot of 1 or 2.
- So? ... The impact is still undeniable.

- I figured the Markannen one was a typo.

- PatBev's impact is definitely more on the defensive end, and team mentality side... but you can't just gloss over the fact that his per 36 went down 40% in points, 30% reb (in LA which makes sense due to AD/Lebron), and 30-50% in assists (between LA/CHI). While his biggest impact is not offensively, it's really tough for his already not jaw dropping stats to take that kind of hit.

- Skipping the Beasley part.

- It's always preferable to consolidate production into as few players as possible. By that I mean you're much better off having a guy that averages 21/12 than 3 players averaging 7/4. What often happens (and often ruins teams) is that they take a player (like KAT) who puts up big numbers and breaks him up into a bunch of smaller pieces that equal the same production in total, but takes up that many more positions/minutes of playtime to produce those numbers. This almost NEVER works, unless one of those players was in a bad situation and is ready to break out in the right situation (which means that they will actually produce more than expected in the new situation). It usually goes the opposite and those pieces end up being unproductive and barely playable (while our talented player goes to a better situation and wins more, KG, Love, Wiggins, Rubio etc).

- You can't just look at the box score and say "Kessler = similar impact to Rudy". As you selectively used in your PatBev defense, Rudy also brings intangibles on defense (and offense when used correctly) that do not show up in the stats/metrics (which is why no matter how many stats you gather, you can never get the full picture of the reality of a game based on the numbers generated in it). As Klomp mentioned, they are in different parts of their careers. Kessler has everyone testing him, so he gets more opportunities for blocks, whereas many times this season you saw guards get into the paint go "Oh ****, that's a 3x DPOY" and then pass it out. Which unlike in the past, was usually passing up what would have been a great shot in the paint in previous years to a worse shot or often times into a forced contested jumper, turnover/shotclock violation.

Kessler isn't a bad player (and I would have been happy to have kept him), but he is not as impactful as Rudy currently at this stage in his career (nor should be expected to be as a rookie). Whether or not he will ever be as impactful as Rudy in the league remains to be seen, but he definitely is not anywhere near Rudy's level of impact on the game currently.

[shrink]

I was thinking today how there was a very narrow margin for how this season will be thought of, which people will always correlate with the Gobert trade.

1. We almost made a Backwards Step, and missed the play offs! Remember, we needed a win on Game 84. I think we were lucky to match up so well with OKC, but this could also have been NOP. Also, we needed to come back from being down at halftime in Game 82 to get the eighth seed (as well as win the final three games of the year .. @BRK was no joke!). I think if we were the ninth seed, I wouldn’t trust us to win two in a row.

2. We almost made a Forward Step, and had a legitimate chance to make the second round. That first play-in game against the Lakers went into overtime, because Towns started the game so well. If Ant, or anyone for that matter, scored a single point more? That was a winnable game. And to be honest, I think we would have had a real shot at beating the Grizzlies this year, with an answer to the rebounding issues from the last post-season.

If we had made the second round, would it have changed anyone’s views on the team and the Gobert trade? If we missed the playoffs, would that amplify people’s frustrations?

[Folklore]

I was thinking today how there was a very narrow margin for how this season will be thought of, which people will always correlate with the Gobert trade.

1. We almost made a Backwards Step, and missed the play offs! Remember, we needed a win on Game 84. I think we were lucky to match up so well with OKC, but this could also have been NOP. Also, we needed to come back from being down at halftime in Game 82 to get the eighth seed (as well as win the final three games of the year .. @BRK was no joke!). I think if we were the ninth seed, I wouldn’t trust us to win two in a row.

2. We almost made a Forward Step, and had a legitimate chance to make the second round. That first play-in game against the Lakers went into overtime, because Towns started the game so well. If Ant, or anyone for that matter, scored a single point more? That was a winnable game. And to be honest, I think we would have had a real shot at beating the Grizzlies this year, with an answer to the rebounding issues from the last post-season.

If we had made the second round, would it have changed anyone’s views on the team and the Gobert trade? If we missed the playoffs, would that amplify people’s frustrations?

For me that's a no. For the amount that we paid he should have had an extra three blocks and 8 points to help us win the game anyway.

These type of questions are confusing. Like asking, if McDonalds remembered to add your fries with the burger and soda, would you be glad with your order? With no mention that the meal cost $46.97. At a low price McDs is great, and the same goes for Rudy. But a $15.83 Big Mac is foolishness.
And brining up how it was such a great sandwich for its time, and how its double patties changed the game will never change the fact that it will never be worth that price. But at $3.93 its easier to swallow without thinking of its flaws.

[TimberKat]

I was thinking today how there was a very narrow margin for how this season will be thought of, which people will always correlate with the Gobert trade.

1. We almost made a Backwards Step, and missed the play offs! Remember, we needed a win on Game 84. I think we were lucky to match up so well with OKC, but this could also have been NOP. Also, we needed to come back from being down at halftime in Game 82 to get the eighth seed (as well as win the final three games of the year .. @BRK was no joke!). I think if we were the ninth seed, I wouldn’t trust us to win two in a row.

2. We almost made a Forward Step, and had a legitimate chance to make the second round. That first play-in game against the Lakers went into overtime, because Towns started the game so well. If Ant, or anyone for that matter, scored a single point more? That was a winnable game. And to be honest, I think we would have had a real shot at beating the Grizzlies this year, with an answer to the rebounding issues from the last post-season.

If we had made the second round, would it have changed anyone’s views on the team and the Gobert trade? If we missed the playoffs, would that amplify people’s frustrations?

For me that's a no. For the amount that we paid he should have had an extra three blocks and 8 points to help us win the game anyway.

These type of questions are confusing. Like asking, if McDonalds remembered to add your fries with the burger and soda, would you be glad with your order? With no mention that the meal cost $46.97. At a low price McDs is great, and the same goes for Rudy. But a $15.83 Big Mac is foolishness.
And brining up how it was such a great sandwich for its time, and how its double patties changed the game will never change the fact that it will never be worth that price. But at $3.93 its easier to swallow without thinking of its flaws.

So this is where I have problem with the Gobert sucks or don't fit argument. Connelly paid for it, so take it out on him. The big mac taste the same. The foolishness is the person who paid for it. This is a down year for him for various reasons but he didn't suck. If Connelly paid too much, what do you expect a trade for Gobert cost? Remember the only player that Jazz half wanted was Kessler and no one knows he actually was as good as he showed.

[Folklore]

I was thinking today how there was a very narrow margin for how this season will be thought of, which people will always correlate with the Gobert trade.

1. We almost made a Backwards Step, and missed the play offs! Remember, we needed a win on Game 84. I think we were lucky to match up so well with OKC, but this could also have been NOP. Also, we needed to come back from being down at halftime in Game 82 to get the eighth seed (as well as win the final three games of the year .. @BRK was no joke!). I think if we were the ninth seed, I wouldn’t trust us to win two in a row.

2. We almost made a Forward Step, and had a legitimate chance to make the second round. That first play-in game against the Lakers went into overtime, because Towns started the game so well. If Ant, or anyone for that matter, scored a single point more? That was a winnable game. And to be honest, I think we would have had a real shot at beating the Grizzlies this year, with an answer to the rebounding issues from the last post-season.

If we had made the second round, would it have changed anyone’s views on the team and the Gobert trade? If we missed the playoffs, would that amplify people’s frustrations?

For me that's a no. For the amount that we paid he should have had an extra three blocks and 8 points to help us win the game anyway.

These type of questions are confusing. Like asking, if McDonalds remembered to add your fries with the burger and soda, would you be glad with your order? With no mention that the meal cost $46.97. At a low price McDs is great, and the same goes for Rudy. But a $15.83 Big Mac is foolishness.
And brining up how it was such a great sandwich for its time, and how its double patties changed the game will never change the fact that it will never be worth that price. But at $3.93 its easier to swallow without thinking of its flaws.

So this is where I have problem with the Gobert sucks or don't fit argument. Connelly paid for it, so take it out on him. The big mac taste the same. The foolishness is the person who paid for it. This is a down year for him for various reasons but he didn't suck. If Connelly paid too much, what do you expect a trade for Gobert cost? Remember the only player that Jazz half wanted was Kessler and no one knows he actually was as good as he showed.

See, there it is, bringing up how good the sandwich is to prove a point.
....How about this? lol

Rudy is a great game character whos optimized with complementary players around him. he gets +10 in scoring and +5 for team assists if all requirements are met.
The Rudy card requires 4 high value cards to be discarded from your deck, and new cards cant be pulled for every other turn for 4 turns. Playing this card makes your second best card move a spot back causing -10 in drive scoring -2 durability and -2 stamina. The highest card in your deck gets a -5 in drive scoring and the team gets -10 in pace and -10 team moral that leads to random status effects', Also causes a reduction on how many cards can be played due to the high cost. the other players pg and sg get a +5 in shooting from the perimeter and +20 in driving if faced with the Rudy card at the perimeter.

You may choose to discard the Rudy card but you're only allowed to replace it with a card that's half the cost. The other cards get their default stats back and gain +5 moral +10 in drive scoring and 2 more cards can be played. blah blah I'm tired.

Knowing all of that would you keep the Rudy card?

[frankenwolf]

Rudy is a great game character whos optimized with complementary players around him. he gets +10 in scoring and +5 for team assists if all requirements are met.
The Rudy card requires 4 high value cards to be discarded from your deck, and new cards cant be pulled for every other turn for 4 turns. Playing this card makes your second best card move a spot back causing -10 in drive scoring -2 durability and -2 stamina. The highest card in your deck gets a -5 in drive scoring and the team gets -10 in pace and -10 team moral that leads to random status effects', Also causes a reduction on how many cards can be played due to the high cost. the other players pg and sg get a +5 in shooting from the perimeter and +20 in driving if faced with the Rudy card at the perimeter.

You may choose to discard the Rudy card but you're only allowed to replace it with a card that's half the cost. The other cards get their default stats back and gain +5 moral +10 in drive scoring and 2 more cards can be played. blah blah I'm tired.

Knowing all of that would you keep the Rudy card?

4 High value cards??? Do you mean an aging PG, a gunner that may or not be good on a given night, a player that is pretty good on defense and practically non-existent on the offensive end and an untried rookie? I consider 4 high value cards KAT, Ant, Jaden and Finch. Everyone that dislikes this trade is basing it on the fact that, supposedly, Kessler had a good year and Rudy did not. Let's look at the actual numbers:

Name PPG RPG Ast Blk PF
Kessler 09.2 08.3 0 .9 2.3 2
Gobert 13.4 11.6 1.2 1.3 3

I want it understood that Gobert was brought here for two reasons - 1) Improve our rebounding and 2) improve our defense. Our defense was top 10 this year. Our team rebounding was down, but that can be attributed to the fact that our leading rebounder from last year missed 52 games.

I get it, maybe the Timberwolves paid more for Rudy than you think he's worth and this season proved your point. The problem is, it didn't prove the front offices point in that zigging while everyone else is zagging works. A major part of that zig missed 52 games. I am very confident that the FO will run it back and we will see just how great this team can be with this compliment of players.

Yes, I would keep the Rudy card.

[urinesane]

I was thinking today how there was a very narrow margin for how this season will be thought of, which people will always correlate with the Gobert trade.

1. We almost made a Backwards Step, and missed the play offs! Remember, we needed a win on Game 84. I think we were lucky to match up so well with OKC, but this could also have been NOP. Also, we needed to come back from being down at halftime in Game 82 to get the eighth seed (as well as win the final three games of the year .. @BRK was no joke!). I think if we were the ninth seed, I wouldn’t trust us to win two in a row.

2. We almost made a Forward Step, and had a legitimate chance to make the second round. That first play-in game against the Lakers went into overtime, because Towns started the game so well. If Ant, or anyone for that matter, scored a single point more? That was a winnable game. And to be honest, I think we would have had a real shot at beating the Grizzlies this year, with an answer to the rebounding issues from the last post-season.

If we had made the second round, would it have changed anyone’s views on the team and the Gobert trade? If we missed the playoffs, would that amplify people’s frustrations?

I think it would change some minds, but the people who immediately after the trade called it "the worst trade in sports history" were trying to have their cake and eat it too. Due to the assets given up they raised their expectations immediately, even though many of them were saying before a single minute was played that it would fail.

Many just looked to confirm their bias immediately (because that's how most people work, especially sports fans).

What would be interesting is how many of the people acting as if Rudy is "average or mediocre" (which is HILARIOUS) would have viewed this season differently had we only given up 1-2 FRP in the deal vs 4 (or if they would have been upset no matter what).

Had the price been lower for Gobert and KAT had gotten injured, I think there'd be a lot more people thankful that we got Rudy and didn't waste a year of Ant/Jaden development wise (losing a ton). The biggest loss of the season was the playoff games Jaden and Naz didn't get to play, otherwise big injuries/etc happen. There was a lot of good to the season despite how many bad things happened.

Now think of the situation we'd be in right now had they run it back, not made the playoffs and this offseason were stuck with a decision about DLo and who to go after. Glad they went for the win now approach, it ended up salvaging the season, otherwise missing the playoffs would have sucked (due to KAT's injury).

[TimberKat]

Rudy is a great game character whos optimized with complementary players around him. he gets +10 in scoring and +5 for team assists if all requirements are met.
The Rudy card requires 4 high value cards to be discarded from your deck, and new cards cant be pulled for every other turn for 4 turns. Playing this card makes your second best card move a spot back causing -10 in drive scoring -2 durability and -2 stamina. The highest card in your deck gets a -5 in drive scoring and the team gets -10 in pace and -10 team moral that leads to random status effects', Also causes a reduction on how many cards can be played due to the high cost. the other players pg and sg get a +5 in shooting from the perimeter and +20 in driving if faced with the Rudy card at the perimeter.

You may choose to discard the Rudy card but you're only allowed to replace it with a card that's half the cost. The other cards get their default stats back and gain +5 moral +10 in drive scoring and 2 more cards can be played. blah blah I'm tired.

Knowing all of that would you keep the Rudy card?

4 High value cards??? Do you mean an aging PG, a gunner that may or not be good on a given night, a player that is pretty good on defense and practically non-existent on the offensive end and an untried rookie? I consider 4 high value cards KAT, Ant, Jaden and Finch. Everyone that dislikes this trade is basing it on the fact that, supposedly, Kessler had a good year and Rudy did not. Let's look at the actual numbers:

Name PPG RPG Ast Blk PF
Kessler 09.2 08.3 0 .9 2.3 2
Gobert 13.4 11.6 1.2 1.3 3

I want it understood that Gobert was brought here for two reasons - 1) Improve our rebounding and 2) improve our defense. Our defense was top 10 this year. Our team rebounding was down, but that can be attributed to the fact that our leading rebounder from last year missed 52 games.

I get it, maybe the Timberwolves paid more for Rudy than you think he's worth and this season proved your point. The problem is, it didn't prove the front offices point in that zigging while everyone else is zagging works. A major part of that zig missed 52 games. I am very confident that the FO will run it back and we will see just how great this team can be with this compliment of players.

Yes, I would keep the Rudy card.

Pile on a little more: I don’t know what card game you are playing but those 4 cards are 7, 6, 5, and 4. It’s not going to help me win the bid or make the contract (OK, they are not in the same suit). They are basically pointless. I need multiple Aces, Kings, and Queens. If you are playing Magic the gathering, then there are many ways to build a winning deck. I think you are playing Pokemon which only one monster can do battle at a time. All other cards are supposed to be energy or support then the fixation of remove Rudy from the deck makes some sense.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Note30]

Read on Twitter

Durant is a two time champion with multiple MVPs that puts up 50-40-90 while giving you 25+ a night and plays pretty amazing help defense in multiple defensive schemes and is despite most fan chatter a consummate professional. He just can't keep his hands off Twitter.

Gobert can't catch the ball and requires specific passes, has little to no offensive skill to speak of, and can only and I mean only play drop coverage defense, he's also never gotten past more than the first round and whichever team he's on has had teammates that really don't like him, has treated a deadly virus as a joke, and otherwise done and said multiple things that make him seem even more childish than Durant.

So yeah whatever this post is trying to prove is failing.

[frankenwolf]

Pile on a little more: I don’t know what card game you are playing but those 4 cards are 7, 6, 5, and 4. It’s not going to help me win the bid or make the contract (OK, they are not in the same suit). They are basically pointless. I need multiple Aces, Kings, and Queens. If you are playing Magic the gathering, then there are many ways to build a winning deck. I think you are playing Pokemon which only one monster can do battle at a time. All other cards are supposed to be energy or support then the fixation of remove Rudy from the deck makes some sense.

Actually, poker is my game of choice. Based on that game, the four mentioned are 8,7,5,4, which are worthless unless you are filling in a straight, or matched up with others of their kind. With ANT being an Ace, KAT a King, Gobert a queen, Jaden an Jack and Mike a 10, I have a straight flush, which will beat all others hands (unless you are playing with Jokers ). So, I will hold on to my hand and bet the house, which is what the FO did when they dealt for Rudy. Mike was the one card to fill in for when we traded in D'lo (a nine).

[Battletrigger]

IDGAF about second rounds. It will only worth it if we get what Toronto got.

The Wolves have only made it to the 2nd round in the playoffs once.

Not that it's a super high bar, but it's sadly true.

So are you saying that the expectation of those 5FRP combined with Vando, PatBev, Beasley, Balmero, and Kessler with the current roster is a championship?

Or does the math change when we don't consolidate these assets into one player?

I didn't answer this cause I didn't see a fair wish of talk about, only seemed to me a poor attempt to favor his narrative.

But, just read a quote from KAT saying that the Wolves ( as an organization, no talking about himself) season was a failure cause when you make all that deals the target is to win the championship.

Now, we can continue with the other narrative

[minimus]

IMO the biggest question mark for us is ability to push pace when Gobert is on the bench. Naz was ultra aggressive in attacking matchups, but I was expecting more from Towns this season playing against opponent bench

[Note30]

Rudy is a great game character whos optimized with complementary players around him. he gets +10 in scoring and +5 for team assists if all requirements are met.
The Rudy card requires 4 high value cards to be discarded from your deck, and new cards cant be pulled for every other turn for 4 turns. Playing this card makes your second best card move a spot back causing -10 in drive scoring -2 durability and -2 stamina. The highest card in your deck gets a -5 in drive scoring and the team gets -10 in pace and -10 team moral that leads to random status effects', Also causes a reduction on how many cards can be played due to the high cost. the other players pg and sg get a +5 in shooting from the perimeter and +20 in driving if faced with the Rudy card at the perimeter.

You may choose to discard the Rudy card but you're only allowed to replace it with a card that's half the cost. The other cards get their default stats back and gain +5 moral +10 in drive scoring and 2 more cards can be played. blah blah I'm tired.

Knowing all of that would you keep the Rudy card?

4 High value cards??? Do you mean an aging PG, a gunner that may or not be good on a given night, a player that is pretty good on defense and practically non-existent on the offensive end and an untried rookie? I consider 4 high value cards KAT, Ant, Jaden and Finch. Everyone that dislikes this trade is basing it on the fact that, supposedly, Kessler had a good year and Rudy did not. Let's look at the actual numbers:

Name PPG RPG Ast Blk PF
Kessler 09.2 08.3 0 .9 2.3 2
Gobert 13.4 11.6 1.2 1.3 3

I want it understood that Gobert was brought here for two reasons - 1) Improve our rebounding and 2) improve our defense. Our defense was top 10 this year. Our team rebounding was down, but that can be attributed to the fact that our leading rebounder from last year missed 52 games.

I get it, maybe the Timberwolves paid more for Rudy than you think he's worth and this season proved your point. The problem is, it didn't prove the front offices point in that zigging while everyone else is zagging works. A major part of that zig missed 52 games. I am very confident that the FO will run it back and we will see just how great this team can be with this compliment of players.

Yes, I would keep the Rudy card.

Per36 Kessler was a better player than Gobert this year.

Our defense was also not top 10 this year we were actually a worse defensive team than last year according to NBA.com and BBall Ref. (15th at 113 vs 12th at 111). You might be referring to our half-court defense. KAT has often been blamed for how bad our defense is, but it seems like it didn't really make all that much of a difference with a purely Gobert led defense vs one with KAT.

Our defensive rebounding was also unsurprisingly exactly the same as last year. 32.8 rebs vs 32.9 rebs. Granted KAT who was the leading rebounder last year also was missing for 52 games, but by that logic Gobert isn't a better rebounder than KAT.

So what exactly are you referring to?

Even by all the statistics we are not better off with Gobert.

[Klomp]

Playing this card makes your second best card move a spot back causing -10 in drive scoring -2 durability and -2 stamina. The highest card in your deck gets a -5 in drive scoring and the team gets -10 in pace and -10 team moral that leads to random status effects', Also causes a reduction on how many cards can be played due to the high cost. the other players pg and sg get a +5 in shooting from the perimeter and +20 in driving if faced with the Rudy card at the perimeter.

This doesn't line up with reality since Edwards raised his 2-point volume at every level and his only drop in efficiency came on long 2s and by less than one percentage point.

% of FGA by distance
0-3 feet: 28.2% to 29.5%
3-10 feet: 12.9% to 15.4%
10-16 feet: 5.5% to 7.5%
16 feet-3P: 5.1% to 10.2%

FG% by distance
0-3 feet: 65.8% to 67.4%
3-10 feet: 35.6% to 37.6%
10-16 feet: 33.8% to 38.3%
16 feet-3P: 35.9% to 35.0%

[Klomp]

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Durant is a two time champion with multiple MVPs that puts up 50-40-90 while giving you 25+ a night and plays pretty amazing help defense in multiple defensive schemes and is despite most fan chatter a consummate professional. He just can't keep his hands off Twitter.

Gobert can't catch the ball and requires specific passes, has little to no offensive skill to speak of, and can only and I mean only play drop coverage defense, he's also never gotten past more than the first round and whichever team he's on has had teammates that really don't like him, has treated a deadly virus as a joke, and otherwise done and said multiple things that make him seem even more childish than Durant.

So yeah whatever this post is trying to prove is failing.

Sometimes, a trade isn't just about the individual pieces in the trade, and should also be judged on how it affects the surrounding pieces.

Say what you want about Gobert's offensive skill, but that's not why he was brought in. Bringing him in allows Karl and Naz to not be so roasted on defense (their weaknesses) and instead focus on their offense where they thrive. Bringing him in gives Jaden another running mate on defense and allows Ant to play more of a free safety role on defense where he excels.

What did Durant do to the Suns? He's made a young center in Ayton an afterthought with one foot out of the door. Chris Paul is likely gone too. That roster is completely bare, there's no Ant or Jaden there for them to point to as the future.

[bluethunder0005]

Read on Twitter

Durant is a two time champion with multiple MVPs that puts up 50-40-90 while giving you 25+ a night and plays pretty amazing help defense in multiple defensive schemes and is despite most fan chatter a consummate professional. He just can't keep his hands off Twitter.

Gobert can't catch the ball and requires specific passes, has little to no offensive skill to speak of, and can only and I mean only play drop coverage defense, he's also never gotten past more than the first round and whichever team he's on has had teammates that really don't like him, has treated a deadly virus as a joke, and otherwise done and said multiple things that make him seem even more childish than Durant.

So yeah whatever this post is trying to prove is failing.

Durant is a 2 time champion because he joined the 73-9 Warriors, let's not act like he won those championships on a team he carried on his back and he's also only got 1 MVP award which came nearly a decade ago. He's been on stacked teams ever since his run with the Warriors ended and he's not even made it back to the finals.

Durant's obviously still a better player than Gobert but they gave up Bridges who is leap years better than anyone the Wolves gave up, including whatever Kessler may become. If the Gobert trade is awful then that Durant trade is awful too. Suns are in an even worse spot than us with an aging Paul and an unhappy C who makes the max who's even worse than the 2 we have.