[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[Klomp]

It really surprises me how the majority of posters itt appear to have simply chose a side at the beginning of this and aren't even attempting to look at any of the news coming out. Just going to spin it to support the side I picked.

This sucks for you. Sucks, sucks sucks. But I think it would suck less for you if you tried to evaluate it on what's actually happening not on a rooting interest in one group or the other.

From the outside its been pretty clear the Lore group didn't have the money. All the evidence we get suggests they don't have the money. You can be mad the current guy is making that public, but it was known long before this. There has been plenty of reporting hinting at this for a long time.

It seems like you have done the same.

Both sides of the actual argument believe they are in the right. Taylor believes deadlines were met. Lore and Rodriguez believe they've done everything in accordance with the contract that both sides drew up.

This will be settled in court. Until then, releasing private financial documents to the public does absolutely nothing. Was the deed of sale bound by Lore and Rodriguez keeping the team above the luxury tax? That's the only reason those documents would be applicable to the actual court battle.

[BlacJacMac]

For "the record", I'm mostly anti-Glen and anti Lore/ARod...

I think Glen has been a terrible owner making bad decision after bad decision and I don't believe he's allowed his GM's full autonomy. There are plenty of stories of how the Wiggins Max deal was on him - among others.

I trust him to keep the team in Minnesota, but that's all I trust. In 2 decades, he's paid a total of 25M in luxury tax. I don't have faith he's fine paying, say, 75M in tax for a single year.

I also worry that he's 187 years old and his family doesn't give a rip about keeping the organization. I think if he passes while being the majority owner, Becky is going to take the best offer to cash out - no matter what the buyer's intents.

As far as Lore and ARod? I think Lore is a bit of a charlatan. He knows exactly what to say, but his follow through has been shaky at best. And I don't believe he has the money to dump into the team if revenues don't cover all the bills. And I don't see the passion for basketball. The Wolves seem like a means to an end. Either he build his Telosa around a new arena or he flips the team in a short while for a 2-3x profit.

ARod is his smiling face of the operation. He's the "name" because no one knew who Marc Lore was before this started. He doesn't have the deep pockets (at least not anymore). He's the pony in this dog and pony show. He cheated MLB, he (probably) cheated on JLo, and he's the guy that probably would love to try to move the team (so thankfully he appears to just be a "token" investor at this point).

So, damn that sounds cynical. But that's what 35 years of fandom to this club will do to you.

[Nick K]

Why do you think that?

In Minnesota, he has built a team contending for a championship.

Taylor pays (and has paid) his salary. It’s one of the highest for all NBA GMs.

Do you think some loyalty to Lore “inviting him here” is going to make him quit, to follow guys that don’t own a team at all?

Quoting a Canis comment because it says it better than I could:

Simitar:

Exactly.

It all depends on how he feels about Taylor as an owner going forward if the Lore/ARod thing falls through.

The recent comment by Glen about how guys like Connelly don't come to places like Minnesota would be a big red flag to me regarding how Taylor sees the franchise.

I really don't think it’s a coincidence that his option coincides with when LoRod were supposed to gain controlling interest.

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

[Nick K]

Despite having little to no evidence to the contrary, I have often wondered if Lore and ARod would be able/willing to pay a large tax bill. But they have been saying all the right things.

In their defense regarding this "leak," isn't it possible that this was just one of many scenarios that could take place? Submit a plan for keeping the team intact and paying the tax, submit a plan for getting under the tax line, etc.

And now the news-grabbing headline says "Lore/ARod submitted plan to cut payroll!"

This wasn't "One of many scenarios".
This was the business plan they have to get passed by the Board of Governors and Board of Governors finance committee as prospective new owners..

If they submit a plan saying they are going to bring the team back and pay 76 million dollars in luxury tax, they need to submit financial evidence that they can make that work.

Which if money is not an issue for them they should have no problem doing.
But money is apparently a big issue for them.

Silver came out just yesterday and said this buying a team on a payment plan thing is probably never going to be allowed again.
They don't like this bid one bit, but they can't take sides right now without risking getting pulled into the litigation.

The bolded is what we're all just guessing about.

Its entirely possible that that's the one and only plan they submitted. Its also possible it was one of many options depending on how the season went.

Something was clearly leaked, but we have no idea if it was a full document or a targeted portion of it.

The figures they gave to the NBA were clearly pro forma. Period. It means nothing. Who gained the most by leaking this? Glen, the snake. That's who.

[guest81]

Quoting a Canis comment because it says it better than I could:

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

I'm curious how the deal that he gets part ownership works with all this happening. It's it coming out of lore and arods percentage? Does he not get it if Lore and arod aren't owners? If that's the case he's definitely out of here

[BlacJacMac]

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

I'm curious how the deal that he gets part ownership works with all this happening. It's it coming out of lore and arods percentage? Does he not get it if Lore and arod aren't owners? If that's the case he's definitely out of here

Tim Connelly owns as much of the Timberwolves as you do.

I believe he has some escalators in his salary based on team performance, but the idea that he was getting a stake in the club was never more than an early rumor (probably started by disheartened Nuggets fans).

[Nick K]

For "the record", I'm mostly anti-Glen and anti Lore/ARod...

I think Glen has been a terrible owner making bad decision after bad decision and I don't believe he's allowed his GM's full autonomy. There are plenty of stories of how the Wiggins Max deal was on him - among others.

I trust him to keep the team in Minnesota, but that's all I trust. In 2 decades, he's paid a total of 25M in luxury tax. I don't have faith he's fine paying, say, 75M in tax for a single year.

I also worry that he's 187 years old and his family doesn't give a rip about keeping the organization. I think if he passes while being the majority owner, Becky is going to take the best offer to cash out - no matter what the buyer's intents.

As far as Lore and ARod? I think Lore is a bit of a charlatan. He knows exactly what to say, but his follow through has been shaky at best. And I don't believe he has the money to dump into the team if revenues don't cover all the bills. And I don't see the passion for basketball. The Wolves seem like a means to an end. Either he build his Telosa around a new arena or he flips the team in a short while for a 2-3x profit.

ARod is his smiling face of the operation. He's the "name" because no one knew who Marc Lore was before this started. He doesn't have the deep pockets (at least not anymore). He's the pony in this dog and pony show. He cheated MLB, he (probably) cheated on JLo, and he's the guy that probably would love to try to move the team (so thankfully he appears to just be a "token" investor at this point).

So, damn that sounds cynical. But that's what 35 years of fandom to this club will do to you.

The sad thing about so many of these arguments is that people here have absolutely no idea how much money Lore has. It's all conjecture based upon limited information at best. They have no clue but pretend they do.

One of their limited partners Eric Schmidt is worth 20 billion alone! The LO/ROD group has plenty of money.

[BlacJacMac]

For "the record", I'm mostly anti-Glen and anti Lore/ARod...

I think Glen has been a terrible owner making bad decision after bad decision and I don't believe he's allowed his GM's full autonomy. There are plenty of stories of how the Wiggins Max deal was on him - among others.

I trust him to keep the team in Minnesota, but that's all I trust. In 2 decades, he's paid a total of 25M in luxury tax. I don't have faith he's fine paying, say, 75M in tax for a single year.

I also worry that he's 187 years old and his family doesn't give a rip about keeping the organization. I think if he passes while being the majority owner, Becky is going to take the best offer to cash out - no matter what the buyer's intents.

As far as Lore and ARod? I think Lore is a bit of a charlatan. He knows exactly what to say, but his follow through has been shaky at best. And I don't believe he has the money to dump into the team if revenues don't cover all the bills. And I don't see the passion for basketball. The Wolves seem like a means to an end. Either he build his Telosa around a new arena or he flips the team in a short while for a 2-3x profit.

ARod is his smiling face of the operation. He's the "name" because no one knew who Marc Lore was before this started. He doesn't have the deep pockets (at least not anymore). He's the pony in this dog and pony show. He cheated MLB, he (probably) cheated on JLo, and he's the guy that probably would love to try to move the team (so thankfully he appears to just be a "token" investor at this point).

So, damn that sounds cynical. But that's what 35 years of fandom to this club will do to you.

The sad thing about so many of these arguments is that people here have absolutely no idea how much money Lore has. It's all conjecture based upon limited information at best. They have no clue but pretend they do.

One of their limited partners Eric Schmidt is worth 20 billion alone! The LO/ROD group has plenty of money.

There is a huge difference between being a majority shareholder and a limited partner.

Eric Schmidt is not going to be bankrolling the Wolves. If that was his goal, he'd buy his own team!

[shrink]

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

Then it should be easy to name a team or two.

GM openings don’t happen every day, maybe we get 2-3 a year, and they are especially rare on teams that are contending for championships. And as I said, many other owners meddle, or don’t pay their GMs as well.

[KGdaBom]

It really surprises me how the majority of posters itt appear to have simply chose a side at the beginning of this and aren't even attempting to look at any of the news coming out. Just going to spin it to support the side I picked.

This sucks for you. Sucks, sucks sucks. But I think it would suck less for you if you tried to evaluate it on what's actually happening not on a rooting interest in one group or the other.

From the outside its been pretty clear the Lore group didn't have the money. All the evidence we get suggests they don't have the money. You can be mad the current guy is making that public, but it was known long before this. There has been plenty of reporting hinting at this for a long time.

Honestly your best hope is almost certainly this falls apart, and then Taylor finds a new governor prepared to keep the team in town. That shouldn't be an impossible task. But Lore/ARod taking over feels like a worst case scenario at this point. Just because the current guy hasn't been great doesn't mean the new ones are a panacea. Ask Kings fans about how pumped they were for Vivek just because he wasn't the Maloofs and then he proved to be not as broke, but somehow far more incompetent.

As a Mavs fan Cuban has plenty of flaws, but it was a remarkably successful tenure. Nervous as hell about these Vegas guys. Lots of Mavs fans had soured on Cuban for a variety of reasons, but not sure getting what they wanted is going to work out. We had Perot Jr who had non-basketball priorities and we are lucky we didn't lose our team. I'm not sure this new group is basketball focused either and that's scary scary.

Good luck and hope this has a happy ending. Or hope Ant/Gobert go crazy and you win the West(the whole thing?) this year and then who cares what happens with this mess. You got one.

People take a look at what Texas Chuck has to say. He's an outsider who can look at this without bias and just let the facts form his opinion.

[shrink]

So, damn that sounds cynical. But that's what 35 years of fandom to this club will do to you.

I’m right there with ya, man!

[BlacJacMac]

An interesting perspective on the situation:

GoldenVIKE
I am not an insider at all, but I am a senior executive with a Fortune 100 insurance company, so I have seen hundreds of 8-9-10 figure business disputes over my career. As a result I feel like I have a strong sense for how people like Glen Taylor (and A-Rod and Lore for that matter) operate in scenarios like this. Again, this is all speculation, but here's my best guess...

1. There was obviously some kind of clash of egos sometime between the lasagna dinner and Taylor's press release.

2. There's at least some contractual basis for Glen to feel he can cancel the sale. Perhaps it's just the "missed deadline" that everyone is focused on (and which Lore seems adamant they met, so we're clearly talking about a technicality or selective interpretations of an ambiguity in the language), but I'd bet there's a basis (at least in Glen's mind) for Glen's to take the actions he has. More on this later...

3. Glen is probably under a lot of pressure from his LPs (minority co-owners) on this deal because they're taking the same financial bath that he is (selling the asset for around 50% of its arguable value); and keep in mind that these are all likely prominent figures in Glen's world. I.e. not people that Glen wants to let down.

4. I bet Glen and his LPs have tried to extract extra value out of Lore/ARod prior to that press release. I bet he threatened many times something to the effect of, "You know, I gave you a really sweetheart deal based on [insert both contractual and informal promises and aspects of purported initial understanding], and now you've [insert whatever contractual breach technicalities or other purported infractions of their partnership you want to imagine]; and now we both know that the franchise is worth 2x, and I'm taking heat from my LPs over it. Tell ya what, how about we find common ground here. How about I still sell, but at a slightly higher (still "discounted") price? That way you still get your team; you still get a great deal; my LPs get something they can live with; my LPs don't want to murder me; and I still get to sail off in the sunset. How about that? How about an even $2B?"

5. I bet they went around in circles on this a few times, with Lore/ARod thinking it's a bluff and/or bull, and Taylor probably threatening to just cancel the whole contract. As they go around in circles, logic and financial details stay relevant, but the role of the egos get bigger and bigger. Eventually, Glen begins to believe his own story that he can cancel the sale. ARod and Lore increasingly don't want to give an inch out of both animosity, and a sense that they'd win in a contractual dispute/arbitration/suit. They hire a lawfirm to solidify that sense, and embolden their stance of not budging.

6. Eventually Taylor gets frustrated and decides to drop the bomb that he's canceling the sale.

7. We are here.

8. The outcome will be one of the following:

• If there's legit ambiguity in the contract, they'll probably settle by agreeing to increase the sale price by some amount that allows them both to declare victory. I'd guess something like $1.6-$1.9B.

• If the contract is as 'iron clad' as Lore claims, they go to arbitration and Taylor is eventually forced to sell the team--or at least a controlling interest in the team, perhaps at an adjusted price. Arbiters tend to split the baby rather than rule definitively for one side or the other. It's possible that he could take this to court in lieu of or in addition to arbitration (a zillion factors in play there), which would extend the timeline.

• If Lore/ARod were really in material breach of contract; or said something that was clearly an egregious violation of the principles of the agreement, then they may get kicked to the curb and have to just live as minority owners and/or sell their share. Examples of this could include if Glen somehow uncovered plans to move the team out of Minnesota; or something to do with Lore's actual commitment to the team given his other businesses that take up all of his time; a lack of financial resources or financial covenants that would demonstrate an ability to actually operate the team in the future (beyond just paying the purchase price); or an actual material breach of contract.

Not sure I said anything of value there; but if I had to guess we as fans will someday be happy with the outcome. Either ARod/Lore deserve the team and will get it. Or they don't deserve the team and won't get it. Unfortunately this could take many months or years to unfold.

https://www.canishoopus.com/timberwolves-scores-results/2024/4/11/24126192/wolves-vs-nuggets-final-score-recap-western-conference-playoffs-no-1-seed-anthony-edwards-jokic

[Klomp]

An interesting perspective on the situation:

It makes a lot of sense

[thinktank]

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

Then it should be easy to name a team or two.

GM openings don’t happen every day, maybe we get 2-3 a year, and they are especially rare on teams that are contending for championships. And as I said, many other owners meddle, or don’t pay their GMs as well.

I can name one GM opportunity that might be the best in the NBA if Bob Myers steps down: Golden State Warriors.

Good NBA GM jobs open up all the time.

Toronto is a huge, huge market. Philly could open up.

Charlotte has nice weather and I bet new owners would love to have Conley. Good bball state.


My argument is this:

We have no idea what will happen.

As a fan, operate in the current environment. Humble thyself before the chaos that is Wolves fandom and fandom of the ever-changing NBA at-large.

[Texas Chuck]

Dunleavy already got warriors job fwiw

Sent from my SM-A136U using RealGM mobile app

[Nick K]

But answer my questions. What better job in the whole world is there for Connelly?

That's a rather arrogant statement. After the job Connelly has done here the world will be his oyster. Hell make even more money.

Then it should be easy to name a team or two.

GM openings don’t happen every day, maybe we get 2-3 a year, and they are especially rare on teams that are contending for championships. And as I said, many other owners meddle, or don’t pay their GMs as well.

Why should I bother? Are you telling me that other teams wouldn't line up to hire this guy? Sheesh!

[Nick K]

For "the record", I'm mostly anti-Glen and anti Lore/ARod...

I think Glen has been a terrible owner making bad decision after bad decision and I don't believe he's allowed his GM's full autonomy. There are plenty of stories of how the Wiggins Max deal was on him - among others.

I trust him to keep the team in Minnesota, but that's all I trust. In 2 decades, he's paid a total of 25M in luxury tax. I don't have faith he's fine paying, say, 75M in tax for a single year.

I also worry that he's 187 years old and his family doesn't give a rip about keeping the organization. I think if he passes while being the majority owner, Becky is going to take the best offer to cash out - no matter what the buyer's intents.

As far as Lore and ARod? I think Lore is a bit of a charlatan. He knows exactly what to say, but his follow through has been shaky at best. And I don't believe he has the money to dump into the team if revenues don't cover all the bills. And I don't see the passion for basketball. The Wolves seem like a means to an end. Either he build his Telosa around a new arena or he flips the team in a short while for a 2-3x profit.

ARod is his smiling face of the operation. He's the "name" because no one knew who Marc Lore was before this started. He doesn't have the deep pockets (at least not anymore). He's the pony in this dog and pony show. He cheated MLB, he (probably) cheated on JLo, and he's the guy that probably would love to try to move the team (so thankfully he appears to just be a "token" investor at this point).

So, damn that sounds cynical. But that's what 35 years of fandom to this club will do to you.

The sad thing about so many of these arguments is that people here have absolutely no idea how much money Lore has. It's all conjecture based upon limited information at best. They have no clue but pretend they do.

One of their limited partners Eric Schmidt is worth 20 billion alone! The LO/ROD group has plenty of money.

There is a huge difference between being a majority shareholder and a limited partner.

Eric Schmidt is not going to be bankrolling the Wolves. If that was his goal, he'd buy his own team!

Yes there is a huge difference. The limited partner is not involved in the day to day operations of the club. He can however add additional money to the club. It's up to the limited partner.

[BlacJacMac]

So he’s not involved in running the club, he’s just expected to pay the bills?

I’m sure he’s glad you’re already spending his money.

[thinktank]

So he’s not involved in running the club, he’s just expected to pay the bills?

I’m sure he’s glad you’re already spending his money.

That’s actually technically correct.

LP’s don’t have any legal right to input in how things are run.

[shrink]

If anyone is interested, the first five minutes of Dane’s podcast is on this situation, for anyone avoiding it because it is mostly about the Nuggets game.