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KGdaBom wrote:

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:Thanks for the reply.
Capela's contract expires at the end of 24-25. Not in a few years. This allows the Wolves to get back under the apron before any Brutal 2 year penalty. I know he's not a perfect fit, but the trade has to have matching salary doesn't it? My proposal accounts for that.

DJM is a great player IMO. Just a notch below KAT at more than $20 million less per year and he's locked up for years. Who is the player on KAT's level we could get that would save us the money needed to get under the Apron, but we wouldn't lose to Free Agency or have to resign to an amount that would put us over the apron once again. They're not going to give us DJM, Jalen Johnson and more. If you think they would I believe you are living in La La land. I want to hear you propose a deal that the other team would likely accept and give us the return that you want us to get.

Give me till after the playoffs and remind me. The deal will depend on how well we do, how well KAT plays, and who if anyone gets seriously injured in the playoffs (I mean miss next season injured.) After that, I can give you multiple realistic proposals.

Realistic is the point. You have IMO pie in the sky optimism about what we could get. I too would prefer DJM, Jalen Johnson and more. We ask for that they may be so offended they cut off all communication with us. I'm very much looking forward to your multiple realistic proposals.

Me too. All that I ask is you remind me when the playoffs are over (hopefully June for us.)

DeJounte Murray is a good player, but how would you rank him among the top 25 starting PGs? I saw these tiers somewhere

Superstars (1-3): Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Stephen Curry
All Stars (4-9): Tyrese Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey, Damian Lillard, Trae Young, De’Aaron Fox
Exceptional (10-16): James Harden, Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, LaMelo Ball, Darius Garland, Coby White, Cade Cunningham
Good (17-22): Russell Westbrook, D’Angelo Russell, Mike Conley, CJ McCollum, Fred VanVleet, Immanuel Quickley
Others (23-25): Keyonte George, Tyus Jones, Tre Jones

The lower you place DeJounte on the list, the more common it is for an opponent to have an advantage at the position. Moreover, the trade value needed to get players at the top is far far greater than ones at the bottom, which sometimes can be found cast off in free agency.

Personally, while I like DeJounte, I have a hard time placing him in the top half of starting PG’s. The position is laden with talent.

shrink wrote:DeJounte Murray is a good player, but how would you rank him among the top 25 starting PGs? I saw these tiers somewhere

Superstars (1-3): Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Stephen Curry
All Stars (4-9): Tyrese Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey, Damian Lillard, Trae Young, De’Aaron Fox
Exceptional (10-16): James Harden, Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, LaMelo Ball, Darius Garland, Coby White, Cade Cunningham
Good (17-22): Russell Westbrook, D’Angelo Russell, Mike Conley, CJ McCollum, Fred VanVleet, Immanuel Quickley
Others (23-25): Keyonte George, Tyus Jones, Tre Jones

The lower you place DeJounte on the list, the more common it is for an opponent to have an advantage at the position. Moreover, the trade value needed to get players at the top is far far greater than ones at the bottom, which sometimes can be found cast off in free agency.

Personally, while I like DeJounte, I have a hard time placing him in the top half of starting PG’s. The position is laden with talent.

He's probably between exceptional and good. His time in Atlanta did him no favors.

shrink wrote:DeJounte Murray is a good player, but how would you rank him among the top 25 starting PGs? I saw these tiers somewhere

Superstars (1-3): Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Stephen Curry
All Stars (4-9): Tyrese Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey, Damian Lillard, Trae Young, De’Aaron Fox
Exceptional (10-16): James Harden, Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, LaMelo Ball, Darius Garland, Coby White, Cade Cunningham
Good (17-22): Russell Westbrook, D’Angelo Russell, Mike Conley, CJ McCollum, Fred VanVleet, Immanuel Quickley
Others (23-25): Keyonte George, Tyus Jones, Tre Jones

The lower you place DeJounte on the list, the more common it is for an opponent to have an advantage at the position. Moreover, the trade value needed to get players at the top is far far greater than ones at the bottom, which sometimes can be found cast off in free agency.

Personally, while I like DeJounte, I have a hard time placing him in the top half of starting PG’s. The position is laden with talent.

I'd put him above Trae Young...

But its not a simple KAT for Murray swap.

Its potentially a KAT for Murray, Naz, NAW and other assets.

Here’s PF rankings

Superstars (1-3): Giannis Antetokounmpo, Jayson Tatum, Kevin Durant
All-Stars (4-11): Paul George, Paolo Banchero, Karl-Anthony Towns, Lauri Markkanen, Julius Randle, Pascal Siakam, Jalen Williams, Zion Williamson

And I personally wouldn’t include some of these guys like Randle at Towns level

shrink wrote:DeJounte Murray is a good player, but how would you rank him among the top 25 starting PGs? I saw these tiers somewhere

Superstars (1-3): Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Stephen Curry
All Stars (4-9): Tyrese Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey, Damian Lillard, Trae Young, De’Aaron Fox
Exceptional (10-16): James Harden, Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, LaMelo Ball, Darius Garland, Coby White, Cade Cunningham
Good (17-22): Russell Westbrook, D’Angelo Russell, Mike Conley, CJ McCollum, Fred VanVleet, Immanuel Quickley
Others (23-25): Keyonte George, Tyus Jones, Tre Jones

The lower you place DeJounte on the list, the more common it is for an opponent to have an advantage at the position. Moreover, the trade value needed to get players at the top is far far greater than ones at the bottom, which sometimes can be found cast off in free agency.

Personally, while I like DeJounte, I have a hard time placing him in the top half of starting PG’s. The position is laden with talent.

I see him in the 10-16 group pushing the 4-9 group. He plays much better defense than most of them.

shrink wrote:DeJounte Murray is a good player, but how would you rank him among the top 25 starting PGs? I saw these tiers somewhere

Superstars (1-3): Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Stephen Curry
All Stars (4-9): Tyrese Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Maxey, Damian Lillard, Trae Young, De’Aaron Fox
Exceptional (10-16): James Harden, Jamal Murray, Jrue Holiday, LaMelo Ball, Darius Garland, Coby White, Cade Cunningham
Good (17-22): Russell Westbrook, D’Angelo Russell, Mike Conley, CJ McCollum, Fred VanVleet, Immanuel Quickley
Others (23-25): Keyonte George, Tyus Jones, Tre Jones

The lower you place DeJounte on the list, the more common it is for an opponent to have an advantage at the position. Moreover, the trade value needed to get players at the top is far far greater than ones at the bottom, which sometimes can be found cast off in free agency.

Personally, while I like DeJounte, I have a hard time placing him in the top half of starting PG’s. The position is laden with talent.

Over his last 3 seasons Murray had one All-star level year (2021-22) and two years that at best would fall in the good category. I think Murray's value depends heavily on whether you believe the All-star level year was a one time thing, or if the right coach and situation could get him back to that level.

I don't get the lack of love for Dejounte. He scores, distributes, rebounds and plays very good D. Nothing he doesn't do well as far as I can tell.

KGdaBom wrote:I don't get the lack of love for Dejounte. He scores, distributes, rebounds and plays very good D. Nothing he doesn't do well as far as I can tell.

He’s even turned into a more than solid 3pt shooter. He’s significantly upped his attempts and % each of the past 3 years.

He’s a horrible fit next to Young (which may have caused some to doubt him), but I’m convinced Young can drag down anyone he’s paired with.

His only real negative is he doesn’t get to the line.

BlacJacMac wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I don't get the lack of love for Dejounte. He scores, distributes, rebounds and plays very good D. Nothing he doesn't do well as far as I can tell.

He’s even turned into a more than solid 3pt shooter. He’s significantly upped his attempts and % each of the past 3 years.

He’s a horrible fit next to Young (which may have caused some to doubt him), but I’m convinced Young can drag down anyone he’s paired with.

His only real negative is he doesn’t get to the line.

Thanks. I'm starting to appreciate you.

KGdaBom wrote:I don't get the lack of love for Dejounte. He scores, distributes, rebounds and plays very good D. Nothing he doesn't do well as far as I can tell.

I think some people see him like a Russell Westbrook, who puts up numbers but not always impact.

KGdaBom wrote:

BlacJacMac wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:I don't get the lack of love for Dejounte. He scores, distributes, rebounds and plays very good D. Nothing he doesn't do well as far as I can tell.

He’s even turned into a more than solid 3pt shooter. He’s significantly upped his attempts and % each of the past 3 years.

He’s a horrible fit next to Young (which may have caused some to doubt him), but I’m convinced Young can drag down anyone he’s paired with.

His only real negative is he doesn’t get to the line.

Thanks. I'm starting to appreciate you.

I’ll end up back on your ignore list eventually…

BlacJacMac wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

BlacJacMac wrote:
He’s even turned into a more than solid 3pt shooter. He’s significantly upped his attempts and % each of the past 3 years.

He’s a horrible fit next to Young (which may have caused some to doubt him), but I’m convinced Young can drag down anyone he’s paired with.

His only real negative is he doesn’t get to the line.

Thanks. I'm starting to appreciate you.

I’ll end up back on your ignore list eventually…

If you get totally negative and pick fights with me over trivial things maybe, but you've been doing less of that and earned a longer leash

KGdaBom wrote:

BlacJacMac wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:Thanks. I'm starting to appreciate you.

I’ll end up back on your ignore list eventually…

If you get totally negative and pick fights with me over trivial things maybe, but you've been doing less of that and earned a longer leash

Can’t we all just get along

winforlose wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

BlacJacMac wrote:
I’ll end up back on your ignore list eventually…

If you get totally negative and pick fights with me over trivial things maybe, but you've been doing less of that and earned a longer leash

Can’t we all just get along

What's the fun in that?

UP!

KAT was great in the series! let's give him the credit he deserves!

That was by far his best career game in playoffs. Awesome game, and good series, he can keep this up if like Ant said in press conference, he stays out of foul trouble lol.

I wonder...would you guys make any comparison from Towns to someone we're about to see again in Aaron Gordon? Miscast as the "team leader" on bad Orlando/Minnesota teams, but able to conform to a supporting role. The change happened differently, where Gordon had to be traded from Orlando while Towns made a jump by Minnesota adding a player above him to help find his proper role.

Klomp wrote:I wonder...would you guys make any comparison from Towns to someone we're about to see again in Aaron Gordon? Miscast as the "team leader" on bad Orlando/Minnesota teams, but able to conform to a supporting role. The change happened differently, where Gordon had to be traded from Orlando while Towns made a jump by Minnesota adding a player above him to help find his proper role.

I think that’s a good comparison. I’ve done a little homework on leadership in my life, and some people are good at it, and some are just miscast. It doesn’t make them bad people - it’s just not a skillset they have mor one where they are comfortable.

In basketball, we usually see people try to put the leadership mantle on the best player, regardless of their desire for it, or if they even have those skills. Everyone says KAT is a great guy, hard worker, loyal to his teammates and his franchise and he has desire (and his problems often arise from too much desire!). We have seen this in spades this season, sacrificing for Rudy and Ant, working himself back from injury, never getting in trouble. But he’s not a guy that should have been cast as he team leader. Granted, I’m not sure anyone could lead Wiggins, but I digress. For example, Towns has always been a better player than Mike Conley, but Mike is just geared for it more. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that some of Towns best seasons have come when he wasn’t the leader. Like a more talented Aaron Gordon, he just seems more comfortable as a supporting player.

One of the great things about Ant is his emotional awareness. He respects his teammates, and he constantly gives them the credit when everyone tries to pile it on him. He listens to others, regardless of their stature. He talks about picking up moves from Tim Duncan, and the slow step from Luka Garza. And he epitomizes commitment to the team’s goals - to get better and to win. He is the type of guy that people in an organization will give 100% for. Even as a fun-loving 22 year old kid, you see this season how the team is starting to following him.

Klomp wrote:I wonder...would you guys make any comparison from Towns to someone we're about to see again in Aaron Gordon? Miscast as the "team leader" on bad Orlando/Minnesota teams, but able to conform to a supporting role. The change happened differently, where Gordon had to be traded from Orlando while Towns made a jump by Minnesota adding a player above him to help find his proper role.

Karl was always the best player on the Wolves in his early days. He was not the locker room leader because he was too young. Then Jimmy came in and became the leader. Then it was a rotating series of vets including Bev and Conley. Karl was also always undersized for a C. He did well with what he has, but he should have been a PF his entire career.