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Note30 wrote:

TimberKat wrote:

Note30 wrote:
Look up Dunning Kruger or Plato's cave. Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

Do you know the skill and knowledge gap between you and Boogie? It's probably the same as the wealth gap between you and a billionaire. I genuinely don't understand people who think that they somehow have a barometer for basketball sense because they watch it compared to playing it.

Not that it matters but Boogie was a passable defensive player in Sacramento.

But even if he wasn't, if you put Boogie in his prime in any other league that was not the NBA (China, Europe, Australia), he would have been DPOY and MVP.

There are maybe less than 8,000 players in the world that play semi-professional to professional ball. The NBA has 350 of those 8,000. The best 350.

To make it to the professional league you have to be on atleast a D3 college team as a starter, more so as a star. Do you know the percentages of this? The sheer level of talent and skill it takes to get there? Do you understand the amount of work and time and effort it even takes to get to college?

Do you understand how uninformed your statement is or the level of who you are espousing?

Just because some can perform anything at a high level doesn't mean they know how it should be done and understood it.

...what kind of cognitive dissonance is this?

Let's have all the high school basketball coaches play Zion one-one and I am sure Zion would do a great job defending them and destroy them. Does that mean Zion knows what is good defense vs bad defense more than those high school coaches? Does Zion even cares? Who's opinion do I trust more?

TimberKat wrote:

Note30 wrote:

TimberKat wrote:
Just because some can perform anything at a high level doesn't mean they know how it should be done and understood it.

...what kind of cognitive dissonance is this?

Let's have all the high school basketball coaches play Zion one-one and I am sure Zion would do a great job defending them and destroy them. Does that mean Zion knows what is good defense vs bad defense more than those high school coaches? Does Zion even cares? Who's opinion do I trust more?

Which high school coach are we talking about?
Is there some set of high school coaches that know more plays, sets, and strategies than Zion? I'm sure there is.

I could guarantee Zion knows more about breaking a zone compared to most high school coaches. It's his job to do it. He probably also knows how to play his role in a zone pretty well.

Whether he is able to execute a zone better over other players is questionable as there are a lot of players out there that are just so much more knowledgeable.

There's an interview by CJ McCollum where someone asks him who gave you the toughest time? And he talks about Greviez Vasquez and how he just smoked him, tricked him left and right, and just in general completely wiped the floor with him. It was his rookie year.

The point of it is that yes at different levels there are going to be more knowledgeable people, and sure there is that dichotomy of players who are able to execute certain plays and know more.

Look at Allen Iverson. His crossover was legendary, and his ability to score was almost unstoppable. He might not have fit the mold of the "ideal point guard," but his understanding of spacing, timing, and how to manipulate defenders was exceptional. He knew the game better than most, I'd argue he'd probably make a poor coach, but if you had to ask someone how would you break down XYZ players, I'd pick him.

Same thing with Kobe, he broke down games and tape on Detail and he went into such depth about each piece. Was he a better coach than Phil Jackson? No, but I bet he knew more about defenses than him.

But at the end of the day I'd pick any of those people to tell me more about the game than some random high school coach because it's one thing to know how to do something it's another to actually do it.

CEO of Apple probably knows a **** ton about his products. I'd pick one of his engineers over him to explain to me how to make it.

A doctor probably knows more about all the tissues and veins under your skin, I'd still trust a nurse to give me an IV over a doctor. And if a nurse saw another nurse administering a routine test and said that nurse was totally wrong, I'd believe there's something off there, even if I didn't 100% take what the nurse just said at face value.

Likewise I'd probably pick a guy who spent a long time playing Rudy to give me insight into him over some poster on the internet.

ESPN did a "Peace" on Gobert's that summarized a lot of the conversations this board had over the last two years. Hope we win today in front of TNT and hope he wins DPOY. This likely his last chance before Wemby going to take all the headlines.

I don't get the "most overrated" voted by NBA players. Gobert didn't even make the all star game. There is a lot of guys ahead of Gobert in that conversation including Thompson, Green, Wiggins, Beal, Zion, Zach, and Harden. Overpaid maybe.

TimberKat wrote:ESPN did a "Peace" on Gobert's that summarized a lot of the conversations this board had over the last two years. Hope we win today in front of TNT and hope he wins DPOY. This likely his last chance before Wemby going to take all the headlines.

I don't get the "most overrated" voted by NBA players. Gobert didn't even make the all star game. There is a lot of guys ahead of Gobert in that conversation including Thompson, Green, Wiggins, Beal, Zion, Zach, and Harden. Overpaid maybe.

Do you think Wemby is a better player to anchor your defense around compared to Gobert? Only on defense, Wemby is already a far better offensive player.

I hear this a lot and don't get me wrong I have my fair share of complaints about him, but I just don't see anyone having more of an impact for a team on defense outside of Gobert for us.

Only on defense, I think I'd still take our Frenchie over theirs.

After the NBA Player poll had voters list him as “Most Over-rated,” Jon Krawcinski wrote this nice article for the Athletic.

https://theathletic.com/5434633/2024/04/22/rudy-gobert-timberwolves-player-poll/

TimberKat wrote:ESPN did a "Peace" on Gobert's that summarized a lot of the conversations this board had over the last two years. Hope we win today in front of TNT and hope he wins DPOY. This likely his last chance before Wemby going to take all the headlines.

I don't get the "most overrated" voted by NBA players. Gobert didn't even make the all star game. There is a lot of guys ahead of Gobert in that conversation including Thompson, Green, Wiggins, Beal, Zion, Zach, and Harden. Overpaid maybe.

Potentially winning a fourth DPOY would put him in rarified air...I think that's why people think he's overrated.

Note30 wrote:

TimberKat wrote:ESPN did a "Peace" on Gobert's that summarized a lot of the conversations this board had over the last two years. Hope we win today in front of TNT and hope he wins DPOY. This likely his last chance before Wemby going to take all the headlines.

I don't get the "most overrated" voted by NBA players. Gobert didn't even make the all star game. There is a lot of guys ahead of Gobert in that conversation including Thompson, Green, Wiggins, Beal, Zion, Zach, and Harden. Overpaid maybe.

Do you think Wemby is a better player to anchor your defense around compared to Gobert? Only on defense, Wemby is already a far better offensive player.

I hear this a lot and don't get me wrong I have my fair share of complaints about him, but I just don't see anyone having more of an impact for a team on defense outside of Gobert for us.

Only on defense, I think I'd still take our Frenchie over theirs.

This year's DPOY final three are Gobert, Bam, and Wemby who is a rookie averaging 10.6 RB and 3.6 blocks. I expect Gobert win this year and won't be surprised Wemby jump ahead of him next year. With his wing span, he can stand and guard the basket and someone at the FT line.

I would not think I have to say this, but so far Rudy has been very solid at making kick-out passes.

Dalvin wrote:This is a nice article from Rudy:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/rudy-gobert-nba-basketball-minnesota-timberwolves

Thanks for that link Dalvin.

Really rough childhood for Rudy.
His dad took off when he was two and he lost most of his extended family because of racism.
Basketball, and his mom, clearly mean everything to him.

He is clearly a different player this year, the darkness retreat did wonders for the mental part of his game.
He is a much more zen Rudy this year and I've appreciated how much he has grown and been able to expand his game on both ends of the court, defending the perimeter and being so much more active without the ball and more sure handed with it.

I didn't follow closely the stuff in Utah, about the all-star game snub or relationships with teammates or reputation as a whiner around the league.
The shots about the huge contract or insane draft pick haul he was traded for aren't his fault.
Those are the 2 big things that cause people to call him overrated, but that huge investment in him by the team in salary and future assets is something he has to be measured against by us as fans.

I really think this season he has earned so much respect from his teammates.
And as one of his harshest critics, he's earned mine this season.

younggunsmn wrote:

Dalvin wrote:This is a nice article from Rudy:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/rudy-gobert-nba-basketball-minnesota-timberwolves

And as one of his harshest critics, he's earned mine this season.

I'm happy he's turned things around. As much as it is hard for me to say, we probably would have been in the playins if it weren't for Rudy.

Do NBA players enter the Hall of Fame with a team designation? When Rudy goes in I think it should be as a Jazz, but if he gets a title here who knows.

younggunsmn wrote:

Dalvin wrote:This is a nice article from Rudy:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/rudy-gobert-nba-basketball-minnesota-timberwolves

Thanks for that link Dalvin.

Really rough childhood for Rudy.
His dad took off when he was two and he lost most of his extended family because of racism.
Basketball, and his mom, clearly mean everything to him.

He is clearly a different player this year, the darkness retreat did wonders for the mental part of his game.
He is a much more zen Rudy this year and I've appreciated how much he has grown and been able to expand his game on both ends of the court, defending the perimeter and being so much more active without the ball and more sure handed with it.

I didn't follow closely the stuff in Utah, about the all-star game snub or relationships with teammates or reputation as a whiner around the league.
The shots about the huge contract or insane draft pick haul he was traded for aren't his fault.
Those are the 2 big things that cause people to call him overrated, but that huge investment in him by the team in salary and future assets is something he has to be measured against by us as fans.

I really think this season he has earned so much respect from his teammates.
And as one of his harshest critics, he's earned mine this season.

Better late than never.

Note30 wrote:

younggunsmn wrote:

Dalvin wrote:This is a nice article from Rudy:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/rudy-gobert-nba-basketball-minnesota-timberwolves

And as one of his harshest critics, he's earned mine this season.

I'm happy he's turned things around. As much as it is hard for me to say, we probably would have been in the playins if it weren't for Rudy.

100%. He was our most consistent player all year - and probably no worse than 2nd most impactful overall.

Rudy is the defensive GOAT, and anyone who disagrees can eat a ******** (rhymes with GOAT.)

At what point do we consider the possibility of retiring the 27 jersey? Outside of Ant, he's probably next on my list of current Wolves players with that chance (followed by Naz Reid).

Surprisingly, Rashad McCants was a voice a reason when it comes to Rudy. Actually stuck up for him on the Gil's Arena podcast...

minimus wrote:I would not think I have to say this, but so far Rudy has been very solid at making kick-out passes.

Speed reading made me think you wrote “kick ass passes”

Klomp wrote:At what point do we consider the possibility of retiring the 27 jersey? Outside of Ant, he's probably next on my list of current Wolves players with that chance (followed by Naz Reid).

Wins a ring with us and stays 5 more years.

Note30 wrote:

Klomp wrote:At what point do we consider the possibility of retiring the 27 jersey? Outside of Ant, he's probably next on my list of current Wolves players with that chance (followed by Naz Reid).

Wins a ring with us and stays 5 more years.

I don't know about the 5 years thing. His impact is evident. His advanced stats bear it out too.