Game 26 | MIN @ PHI (12/20/23)

[TimberKat]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

I though the Ant quick miss 3 when we were like down 7 or 9 late in the 4th was the turning point in the game. If we get a better shot first and make it, we would be back in the game. You can tell Ant wasn't going to pass that ball.

[KGdaBom]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

1. Jaden took 1 shot in the second half. This man who scored 19 in the first took 1 shot in the second. I know he gave them Chick fillet in the fourth, but this simply cannot happen. Especially when he plays 17:29 out of 24 minutes.

2. Karl was 6 of 10 in the first half and only 3 of 4 in the second half. He played 17:36 of 24 minutes and took 4 shots.

3. Mike Conley took only 2 shots in 14:25 of the first half. He went 1-2. This is not good. He made up for it with a whopping 5 shots in the 2nd half. 7 shots in 25 minutes for a guy who is arguably our 3rd or 4th best shooter is a problem.


4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

9 shots out of 20 is a very respectable 45%. If some of them were 3s he had a good EFG. He did nothing wrong. It's on the other guys to take their shots.

[KGdaBom]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

1. Jaden took 1 shot in the second half. This man who scored 19 in the first took 1 shot in the second. I know he gave them Chick fillet in the fourth, but this simply cannot happen. Especially when he plays 17:29 out of 24 minutes.

2. Karl was 6 of 10 in the first half and only 3 of 4 in the second half. He played 17:36 of 24 minutes and took 4 shots.

3. Mike Conley took only 2 shots in 14:25 of the first half. He went 1-2. This is not good. He made up for it with a whopping 5 shots in the 2nd half. 7 shots in 25 minutes for a guy who is arguably our 3rd or 4th best shooter is a problem.


4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

The best player on the team...takes the most shots. Finch knows it, Kat knows it, Jaden Knows it, most of this board knows it, and one day you will too. Did he take a few questionable shots, yes but you deal with that. 20 shots isn't excessive by any means. Yes Jaden and Towns should have gotten more shots in the 2nd half. Alexander and Reid killed us today being a negative 24 and -27. Kat, Gobert, and Conley were our only positive +- players tonight.

I don’t normally swear on here, but that is straight bull. The hot hand takes the most shots. Any team any game, the hot hand needs to shoot. Jaden was the hot hand tonight and we stopped going to him in the second half. Karl was way hotter than Ant and we stopped going to him. Ant shot 9 of 20. That isn’t a hot hand. Btw, Karl is a better shooter than Ant. Finch has straight said it. The fact that the ball isn’t finding the right shooters in the right situations is an indictment of the coach, and the offensive scheme. We need more structure and more PG play.

P.S they auto edited my cuss.

Edit to add: plus minus is bull as well. NAW hit 2 of 3 from the field and had 4/2/2 with no turn overs and tough defensive matchups. For reference sake Kyle was a -10. If you think Kyle was 17 points better than Naz and 13 points better than NAW you obviously were not watching the game.

sorry W4L. I agree with TWolves 31. Ant took as many shots as he should have.

[winforlose]

The best player on the team...takes the most shots. Finch knows it, Kat knows it, Jaden Knows it, most of this board knows it, and one day you will too. Did he take a few questionable shots, yes but you deal with that. 20 shots isn't excessive by any means. Yes Jaden and Towns should have gotten more shots in the 2nd half. Alexander and Reid killed us today being a negative 24 and -27. Kat, Gobert, and Conley were our only positive +- players tonight.

I don’t normally swear on here, but that is straight bull. The hot hand takes the most shots. Any team any game, the hot hand needs to shoot. Jaden was the hot hand tonight and we stopped going to him in the second half. Karl was way hotter than Ant and we stopped going to him. Ant shot 9 of 20. That isn’t a hot hand. Btw, Karl is a better shooter than Ant. Finch has straight said it. The fact that the ball isn’t finding the right shooters in the right situations is an indictment of the coach, and the offensive scheme. We need more structure and more PG play.

P.S they auto edited my cuss.

Edit to add: plus minus is bull as well. NAW hit 2 of 3 from the field and had 4/2/2 with no turn overs and tough defensive matchups. For reference sake Kyle was a -10. If you think Kyle was 17 points better than Naz and 13 points better than NAW you obviously were not watching the game.

sorry W4L. I agree with TWolves 31. Ant took as many shots as he should have.

5-13 in the 2nd half, 1-5 from 3. Also worth noting that Karl and Jaden were both shooting above 60%. Conley played 11 minutes in the 2nd half. I did a better dive on this on Canius. But, Ant is running the offense or at least the offense is often running through him, if you want PG ant or NAW instead of JMAC, they need to get the ball to the hot hand. Jaden cannot take 1 shot in the second half. Karl cannot take 4. Ant cannot take more shots than Karl, Jaden, Mike, and NAW combined. 9-20 is 45%. Karl was 9-14 and Jaden 8-12. Looking at those numbers you really want Ant taking the majority of your shots?

[KGdaBom]

I don’t normally swear on here, but that is straight bull. The hot hand takes the most shots. Any team any game, the hot hand needs to shoot. Jaden was the hot hand tonight and we stopped going to him in the second half. Karl was way hotter than Ant and we stopped going to him. Ant shot 9 of 20. That isn’t a hot hand. Btw, Karl is a better shooter than Ant. Finch has straight said it. The fact that the ball isn’t finding the right shooters in the right situations is an indictment of the coach, and the offensive scheme. We need more structure and more PG play.

P.S they auto edited my cuss.

Edit to add: plus minus is bull as well. NAW hit 2 of 3 from the field and had 4/2/2 with no turn overs and tough defensive matchups. For reference sake Kyle was a -10. If you think Kyle was 17 points better than Naz and 13 points better than NAW you obviously were not watching the game.

sorry W4L. I agree with TWolves 31. Ant took as many shots as he should have.

5-13 in the 2nd half, 1-5 from 3. Also worth noting that Karl and Jaden were both shooting above 60%. Conley played 11 minutes in the 2nd half. I did a better dive on this on Canius. But, Ant is running the offense or at least the offense is often running through him, if you want PG ant or NAW instead of JMAC, they need to get the ball to the hot hand. Jaden cannot take 1 shot in the second half. Karl cannot take 4. Ant cannot take more shots than Karl, Jaden, Mike, and NAW combined. 9-20 is 45%. Karl was 9-14 and Jaden 8-12. Looking at those numbers you really want Ant taking the majority of your shots?

Ant took the shots he should have. IMO it's up to them to take the shots they should have. I don't believe in hot hand much. Just because you were hot in the first half doesn't mean you will be in the 2nd half. Keegan Murray wasn't 12-13 on 3s like you keep saying. He was 12-15. He cooled off in the 4th quarter. Ant must have been 4-7 in the first half. That's pretty hot. I guess he cooled off in the 2nd half. I understand that Ant plays a part in how many shots those other guys get, but he's certainly not the only factor.
In summation should Ant have looked to pass to those other guys a bit more. Probably, but he didn't do anything wrong really.

[winforlose]

sorry W4L. I agree with TWolves 31. Ant took as many shots as he should have.

5-13 in the 2nd half, 1-5 from 3. Also worth noting that Karl and Jaden were both shooting above 60%. Conley played 11 minutes in the 2nd half. I did a better dive on this on Canius. But, Ant is running the offense or at least the offense is often running through him, if you want PG ant or NAW instead of JMAC, they need to get the ball to the hot hand. Jaden cannot take 1 shot in the second half. Karl cannot take 4. Ant cannot take more shots than Karl, Jaden, Mike, and NAW combined. 9-20 is 45%. Karl was 9-14 and Jaden 8-12. Looking at those numbers you really want Ant taking the majority of your shots?

Ant took the shots he should have. IMO it's up to them to take the shots they should have. I don't believe in hot hand much. Just because you were hot in the first half doesn't mean you will be in the 2nd half. Keegan Murray wasn't 12-13 on 3s like you keep saying. He was 12-15. He cooled off in the 4th quarter. Ant must have been 4-7 in the first half. That's pretty hot. I guess he cooled off in the 2nd half. I understand that Ant plays a part in how many shots those other guys get, but he's certainly not the only factor.
In summation should Ant have looked to pass to those other guys a bit more. Probably, but he didn't do anything wrong really.

It’s not all Ant’s fault. A lot of it is Finch’s fault. The lack of offensive structure contributes to it. The lack of true PG on the floor contributes to it. But it doesn’t change the math. If Ant is going to shoot more than every other starter combined, you will win or lose on his shot selection and his shooting heat on that night. That is a bad formula when you have talented offensive players. Tell me you prefer hero ball to smart offense.

To your other point, maybe Jaden did cool off, but he shot 1 (technically 2 because there were free throws,) shots in the half. How can he or we know? Karl hit 3-4 does that sound cooled off to you? A best player on the team playmaker cannot let their teammates disappear. Especially if they want to be a leader. Finch needs to get through to these guys, and Ant needs to be more aware of it, especially if he is going to be the primary ball handler. These are the kinds of numbers that cost us the Memphis series a few years back and could easily cost us this year.

[TimberKat]

Read on Twitter

This would have been so much better if we won. We don't just have big balls but great ball of fire.
https://youtu.be/xPlqLHcphyw?si=29c2mIAhCkOai1jq

[KGdaBom]

5-13 in the 2nd half, 1-5 from 3. Also worth noting that Karl and Jaden were both shooting above 60%. Conley played 11 minutes in the 2nd half. I did a better dive on this on Canius. But, Ant is running the offense or at least the offense is often running through him, if you want PG ant or NAW instead of JMAC, they need to get the ball to the hot hand. Jaden cannot take 1 shot in the second half. Karl cannot take 4. Ant cannot take more shots than Karl, Jaden, Mike, and NAW combined. 9-20 is 45%. Karl was 9-14 and Jaden 8-12. Looking at those numbers you really want Ant taking the majority of your shots?

Ant took the shots he should have. IMO it's up to them to take the shots they should have. I don't believe in hot hand much. Just because you were hot in the first half doesn't mean you will be in the 2nd half. Keegan Murray wasn't 12-13 on 3s like you keep saying. He was 12-15. He cooled off in the 4th quarter. Ant must have been 4-7 in the first half. That's pretty hot. I guess he cooled off in the 2nd half. I understand that Ant plays a part in how many shots those other guys get, but he's certainly not the only factor.
In summation should Ant have looked to pass to those other guys a bit more. Probably, but he didn't do anything wrong really.

It’s not all Ant’s fault. A lot of it is Finch’s fault. The lack of offensive structure contributes to it. The lack of true PG on the floor contributes to it. But it doesn’t change the math. If Ant is going to shoot more than every other starter combined, you will win or lose on his shot selection and his shooting heat on that night. That is a bad formula when you have talented offensive players. Tell me you prefer hero ball to smart offense.

To your other point, maybe Jaden did cool off, but he shot 1 (technically 2 because there were free throws,) shots in the half. How can he or we know? Karl hit 3-4 does that sound cooled off to you? A best player on the team playmaker cannot let their teammates disappear. Especially if they want to be a leader. Finch needs to get through to these guys, and Ant needs to be more aware of it, especially if he is going to be the primary ball handler. These are the kinds of numbers that cost us the Memphis series a few years back and could easily cost us this year.

As I stated. I don't believe in hot hand. Pretty much at all. If those guys were working hard to get shots and took them when they got them they would have had more shots. Sure Ant could have distributed a bit better, but to me you greatly exaggerating Ant's contribution to our demise. I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate.

[winforlose]

Ant took the shots he should have. IMO it's up to them to take the shots they should have. I don't believe in hot hand much. Just because you were hot in the first half doesn't mean you will be in the 2nd half. Keegan Murray wasn't 12-13 on 3s like you keep saying. He was 12-15. He cooled off in the 4th quarter. Ant must have been 4-7 in the first half. That's pretty hot. I guess he cooled off in the 2nd half. I understand that Ant plays a part in how many shots those other guys get, but he's certainly not the only factor.
In summation should Ant have looked to pass to those other guys a bit more. Probably, but he didn't do anything wrong really.

It’s not all Ant’s fault. A lot of it is Finch’s fault. The lack of offensive structure contributes to it. The lack of true PG on the floor contributes to it. But it doesn’t change the math. If Ant is going to shoot more than every other starter combined, you will win or lose on his shot selection and his shooting heat on that night. That is a bad formula when you have talented offensive players. Tell me you prefer hero ball to smart offense.

To your other point, maybe Jaden did cool off, but he shot 1 (technically 2 because there were free throws,) shots in the half. How can he or we know? Karl hit 3-4 does that sound cooled off to you? A best player on the team playmaker cannot let their teammates disappear. Especially if they want to be a leader. Finch needs to get through to these guys, and Ant needs to be more aware of it, especially if he is going to be the primary ball handler. These are the kinds of numbers that cost us the Memphis series a few years back and could easily cost us this year.

As I stated. I don't believe in hot hand. Pretty much at all. If those guys were working hard to get shots and took them when they got them they would have had more shots. Sure Ant could have distributed a bit better, but to me you greatly exaggerating Ant's contribution to our demise. I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate.

I don’t get how you don’t believe in the hot hand when you literally just talked about a few posts back. Keegan Murray hitting 12 of his first 13 is an example of feeding the hot hand. Then he cooled and went to 12-15 so he stopped shooting them. It’s like saying you don’t believe in taxes right after filing your return. You may not agree with what they cost or where the money goes, but you know they are real, and you know you have to pay them.

[KGdaBom]

It’s not all Ant’s fault. A lot of it is Finch’s fault. The lack of offensive structure contributes to it. The lack of true PG on the floor contributes to it. But it doesn’t change the math. If Ant is going to shoot more than every other starter combined, you will win or lose on his shot selection and his shooting heat on that night. That is a bad formula when you have talented offensive players. Tell me you prefer hero ball to smart offense.

To your other point, maybe Jaden did cool off, but he shot 1 (technically 2 because there were free throws,) shots in the half. How can he or we know? Karl hit 3-4 does that sound cooled off to you? A best player on the team playmaker cannot let their teammates disappear. Especially if they want to be a leader. Finch needs to get through to these guys, and Ant needs to be more aware of it, especially if he is going to be the primary ball handler. These are the kinds of numbers that cost us the Memphis series a few years back and could easily cost us this year.

As I stated. I don't believe in hot hand. Pretty much at all. If those guys were working hard to get shots and took them when they got them they would have had more shots. Sure Ant could have distributed a bit better, but to me you greatly exaggerating Ant's contribution to our demise. I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate.

I don’t get how you don’t believe in the hot hand when you literally just talked about a few posts back. Keegan Murray hitting 12 of his first 13 is an example of feeding the hot hand. Then he cooled and went to 12-15 so he stopped shooting them. It’s like saying you don’t believe in taxes right after filing your return. You may not agree with what they cost or where the money goes, but you know they are real, and you know you have to pay them.

A person is only hot until he isn't. I don't get caught up in it. Also a great shooter who has a cold hand is usually encouraged to shoot himself out of it.

[winforlose]

As I stated. I don't believe in hot hand. Pretty much at all. If those guys were working hard to get shots and took them when they got them they would have had more shots. Sure Ant could have distributed a bit better, but to me you greatly exaggerating Ant's contribution to our demise. I've told you a million times. Don't exaggerate.

I don’t get how you don’t believe in the hot hand when you literally just talked about a few posts back. Keegan Murray hitting 12 of his first 13 is an example of feeding the hot hand. Then he cooled and went to 12-15 so he stopped shooting them. It’s like saying you don’t believe in taxes right after filing your return. You may not agree with what they cost or where the money goes, but you know they are real, and you know you have to pay them.

A person is only hot until he isn't. I don't get caught up in it. Also a great shooter who has a cold hand is usually encouraged to shoot himself out of it.

Feeding the hot hand is about exactly that, giving the hot player shots until they go cold. As for shooting yourself out of it, there is truth in that. However, when a teammate goes on a heater you give them the damn ball and do anything/everything to get them open when they shoot it. Including rebounding and kicking out to them.

So the Kings should not have kept passing Murray the ball? They shouldn’t have run offense for him. Likewise when NAW hits 4 3s in a quarter you think instead of shooting number 5 he should pass the ball to Karl because Karl is a better overall shooter?

[KGdaBom]

I don’t get how you don’t believe in the hot hand when you literally just talked about a few posts back. Keegan Murray hitting 12 of his first 13 is an example of feeding the hot hand. Then he cooled and went to 12-15 so he stopped shooting them. It’s like saying you don’t believe in taxes right after filing your return. You may not agree with what they cost or where the money goes, but you know they are real, and you know you have to pay them.

A person is only hot until he isn't. I don't get caught up in it. Also a great shooter who has a cold hand is usually encouraged to shoot himself out of it.

Feeding the hot hand is about exactly that, giving the hot player shots until they go cold. As for shooting yourself out of it, there is truth in that. However, when a teammate goes on a heater you give them the damn ball and do anything/everything to get them open when they shoot it. Including rebounding and kicking out to them.

So the Kings should not have kept passing Murray the ball? They shouldn’t have run offense for him. Likewise when NAW hits 4 3s in a quarter you think instead of shooting number 5 he should pass the ball to Karl because Karl is a better overall shooter?

Look you can be a big believer in the hot hand. That's fine. I'm not a big believer. I'm a very small believer.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I am not at the level of Anthony Edwards, Towns, or even Josh Okogie... but if I just made four straight three pointers in a men's league game or even pick-up game... and another guy forces the next shot instead of feeding me... I'm going to be upset.

I do think it's a bit different at the highest level when everyone can shoot and every shot feels likes it's going in... but feeding the hot hand is an unwritten rule of basketball/sports.

It's still a confidence game.



[Note: Even though I may think Edwards' hero ball style can be a legit problem at times... I don't think that's why the Timberwolves lost vs. the 76ers.]

[winforlose]

I am not at the level of Anthony Edwards, Towns, or even Josh Okogie... but if I just made four straight three pointers in a men's league game or even pick-up game... and another guy forces the next shot instead of feeding me... I'm going to be upset.

I do think it's a bit different at the highest level when everyone can shoot and every shot feels likes it's going in... but feeding the hot hand is an unwritten rule of basketball/sports.

It's still a confidence game.



[Note: Even though I may think Edwards' hero ball style can be a legit problem at times... I don't think that's why the Timberwolves lost vs. the 76ers.]

No one does. We got run over by a herd of angry Zebra’s and the 76ers just happened to be there. Kinda like the Pels game.

[shrink]

Just like they got rid of Harden’s rip through, and Trae Young’s sudden stopping, I suspect the NBA is going to make a rule change to reduce Embiid gaming the system, and making their product unwatchable.

[winforlose]

Just like they got rid of Harden’s rip through, and Trae Young’s sudden stopping, I suspect the NBA is going to make a rule change to reduce Embiid gaming the system, and making their product unwatchable.

They love making it like this. This allows Embiid to break all time records, and get a foreign market invested in him. They will do whatever they can to make international stars look awesome.

Also, Philly fans don’t mind it, just everybody else’s fans. The casuals who buy jerseys overseas (and other merch,) are more concerned with the stat lines than the quality of the game they probably won’t watch.