Game 26 | MIN @ PHI (12/20/23)

[winforlose]

The NBA really needs to focus on consistency in reffing. Within games, between games, from player to player, position to position, and from ref to ref. I refuse to believe they are as consistent as possible. If they are, I’m all for robots and AI replacing them.

Otherwise, this game really exposed the lack of shooting and playmaking on our bench. I also think we still need more structure in our offense. We just don’t have the players to execute a “flow” offense when the defense tightens up. We waste a lot of time trying to figure out what to do each play.

When Mike sits we lack a PG. All the proof you need that Ant cannot play point is in MCD’s box score. 19 in the first half and 2 in the second half. No one feeding him. We also got sloppy with on ball defense in the 2nd half. Bev and Maxey were blowing by and forcing the big to step up. I blame Finch and the wings for not making adjustments.

[younggunsmn]

Finch had a responsibility to call out the BS in his press conference and failed his players, the reporters even tried to bait him into saying something. Take the fine, you've got a 20-5 team you have some leverage to say something here. Disappointing.

Russell had 2 points on 1/6 shooting as the Lakers lost by 16 to the lowly Levine-less Bulls and let them shoot 55%, with both Lebron and LeBrow playing.
They've both been very good this year but they have very little help outside of Reaves, who's coming off the bench.

Now watch next game we get cooked by Rui Hachimuira and Gabe Vincent and Cam Reddish.

[younggunsmn]

When Kyle is in Ant is doubled. Literally every time. Kyle is not playable right now.

This is a good observation and a growing trend.
He did have 10 assists the other game, but when he is on the floor KAT and Ant are playing 4 on 5 and facing constant double teams.

[winforlose]

Finch had a responsibility to call out the BS in his press conference and failed his players, the reporters even tried to bait him into saying something. Take the fine, you've got a 20-5 team you have some leverage to say something here. Disappointing.

Russell had 2 points on 1/6 shooting as the Lakers lost by 16 to the lowly Levine-less Bulls and let them shoot 55%, with both Lebron and LeBrow playing.
They've both been very good this year but they have very little help outside of Reaves, who's coming off the bench.

Now watch next game we get cooked by Rui Hachimuira and Gabe Vincent and Cam Reddish.

Finch has no leverage. All you accomplish is a fine and making enemies of those refs. What Finch needs to do is take this to the league. Our last two losses were screw jobs. Send in the tape and file whatever kind of complaint he can. This is the kinda nonsense that kills fan interest in the broader league. You don’t want to buy NBA merch or support a crooked league. I also think the league needs an oversight authority as they have failed to regulate themselves.

[moss_is_1]

Embiid is just not fun to watch. No wonder he underperforms every post-season. Even still, we deserved to lose tonight. We lost the minutes Embiid was off the floor as well. Just hard to get any rhythm when you're watching someone shoot 18 fts.

[Nick K]

What a bunch of utter BS. I've never been so angry about bad referees.
Sixers shoot 10 FTs in the first quarter, none of them deserved, and Embiid can foul Ant and Jaden at the rim on consecutive plays with his body and BOTH HANDS and not call.

I would say they should never ever work another game, but I realize they are doing exactly what the league is telling them to do.
Pro Wrestling has more integrity. At least they admit it is fake.
It's why no matter how many regular season wins we have, how much talent, it will be hard for me to ever get excited about a minnesota team winning a title. The puppeteers will never let it happen.

Embiid's knees are cooked. He is noticeably slower than just a couple years ago and clearly labors to get up and down the floor all game long. 35 pts a game and 1/3 if not 1/2 of it is utter bullsh-t. 7 ft and 300 lbs and you can't even breathe in his direction without a foul call. If you could be as physical with him as any other player, he's painfully average.
He's only got 2 maybe 3 years left and the league is trying to milk all the money out of him as it can before he's cooked for good.

Expect more of the same from the refs against the Lakers.

Finch you are an utter failure. There are 2 players on Philly's ENTIRE ROSTER who you have to worry about scoring and you played the entire game in your base defense. No double teams, no traps, no zone. Just give up and play off and let Embiid shoot 15 footers all night and Maxey fly off illegal pick after illegal pick.

You wait until the 4th quarter to pick up a tech and defend your players?
Not after Ant gets flattened and his shoulder pulled down on a dunk attempt?

I know its not gonna happen, but I would have pulled my team off the floor after that and protested the forfeit and put the team on a plane so they're fresh for a back to back.
None of this crap is ever going to change until something like that happens.

PROFESSIONAL EFFING WRESTLING.

I hate to say it but you're right. Often it's embarrassingly bad. It doesn't have to e this way either. This is a failure of leadership with the league.

[Dalvin]

Embiid like Harden and Young always underperform on the playoffs since their foul hunting techniques doesn't work there.
I tip my hat off more to Maxey, who's a legit superstar and has his points earned and not given by refs.

[younggunsmn]

Finch had a responsibility to call out the BS in his press conference and failed his players, the reporters even tried to bait him into saying something. Take the fine, you've got a 20-5 team you have some leverage to say something here. Disappointing.

Russell had 2 points on 1/6 shooting as the Lakers lost by 16 to the lowly Levine-less Bulls and let them shoot 55%, with both Lebron and LeBrow playing.
They've both been very good this year but they have very little help outside of Reaves, who's coming off the bench.

Now watch next game we get cooked by Rui Hachimuira and Gabe Vincent and Cam Reddish.

Finch has no leverage. All you accomplish is a fine and making enemies of those refs. What Finch needs to do is take this to the league. Our last two losses were screw jobs. Send in the tape and file whatever kind of complaint he can. This is the kinda nonsense that kills fan interest in the broader league. You don’t want to buy NBA merch or support a crooked league. I also think the league needs an oversight authority as they have failed to regulate themselves.

Take it to the league? The League is who is ordering this!
You take it to the public with the support of your ownership, it's the only way the league will change.
You attack the league for the way certain players are consistently reffed and how yours get no respect.

Or you just bend over like the Twins who got 5 innings ended with bullsh-t strike 3 calls in 2 playoff losses.

[winforlose]

Embiid like Harden and Young always underperform on the playoffs since their foul hunting techniques doesn't work there.
I tip my hat off more to Maxey, who's a legit superstar and has his points earned and not given by refs.

Except the foul calling backed us off letting him get downhill. Non of this game happened in a vacuum.

[winforlose]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

1. Jaden took 1 shot in the second half. This man who scored 19 in the first took 1 shot in the second. I know he gave them Chick fillet in the fourth, but this simply cannot happen. Especially when he plays 17:29 out of 24 minutes.

2. Karl was 6 of 10 in the first half and only 3 of 4 in the second half. He played 17:36 of 24 minutes and took 4 shots.

3. Mike Conley took only 2 shots in 14:25 of the first half. He went 1-2. This is not good. He made up for it with a whopping 5 shots in the 2nd half. 7 shots in 25 minutes for a guy who is arguably our 3rd or 4th best shooter is a problem.


4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

[twolves31]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

1. Jaden took 1 shot in the second half. This man who scored 19 in the first took 1 shot in the second. I know he gave them Chick fillet in the fourth, but this simply cannot happen. Especially when he plays 17:29 out of 24 minutes.

2. Karl was 6 of 10 in the first half and only 3 of 4 in the second half. He played 17:36 of 24 minutes and took 4 shots.

3. Mike Conley took only 2 shots in 14:25 of the first half. He went 1-2. This is not good. He made up for it with a whopping 5 shots in the 2nd half. 7 shots in 25 minutes for a guy who is arguably our 3rd or 4th best shooter is a problem.


4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

The best player on the team...takes the most shots. Finch knows it, Kat knows it, Jaden Knows it, most of this board knows it, and one day you will too. Did he take a few questionable shots, yes but you deal with that. 20 shots isn't excessive by any means. Yes Jaden and Towns should have gotten more shots in the 2nd half. Alexander and Reid killed us today being a negative 24 and -27. Kat, Gobert, and Conley were our only positive +- players tonight.

[winforlose]

Once I calmed down from my burning rage I had some thoughts about this game.

1. Jaden took 1 shot in the second half. This man who scored 19 in the first took 1 shot in the second. I know he gave them Chick fillet in the fourth, but this simply cannot happen. Especially when he plays 17:29 out of 24 minutes.

2. Karl was 6 of 10 in the first half and only 3 of 4 in the second half. He played 17:36 of 24 minutes and took 4 shots.

3. Mike Conley took only 2 shots in 14:25 of the first half. He went 1-2. This is not good. He made up for it with a whopping 5 shots in the 2nd half. 7 shots in 25 minutes for a guy who is arguably our 3rd or 4th best shooter is a problem.


4. Ant took 20 shots and only hit 9. Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again. The 13 shots Ant took in the second half was more than Karl, Jaden, and Mike combined. When Ant is the hot hand, that is fine. When Jaden is the hot hand it is anything but.

Those of you who say we don’t need a PG when we have an Ant, these numbers are my answer.

The best player on the team...takes the most shots. Finch knows it, Kat knows it, Jaden Knows it, most of this board knows it, and one day you will too. Did he take a few questionable shots, yes but you deal with that. 20 shots isn't excessive by any means. Yes Jaden and Towns should have gotten more shots in the 2nd half. Alexander and Reid killed us today being a negative 24 and -27. Kat, Gobert, and Conley were our only positive +- players tonight.

I don’t normally swear on here, but that is straight bull. The hot hand takes the most shots. Any team any game, the hot hand needs to shoot. Jaden was the hot hand tonight and we stopped going to him in the second half. Karl was way hotter than Ant and we stopped going to him. Ant shot 9 of 20. That isn’t a hot hand. Btw, Karl is a better shooter than Ant. Finch has straight said it. The fact that the ball isn’t finding the right shooters in the right situations is an indictment of the coach, and the offensive scheme. We need more structure and more PG play.

P.S they auto edited my cuss.

Edit to add: plus minus is bull as well. NAW hit 2 of 3 from the field and had 4/2/2 with no turn overs and tough defensive matchups. For reference sake Kyle was a -10. If you think Kyle was 17 points better than Naz and 13 points better than NAW you obviously were not watching the game.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I don't mind ANT take the most shoot. What make me worry is when KAT ( and to a lesser degree Mike) shoot not enough.
The second things we have to work on the the ball movement. I hate when the ball in the hand of ANT and Mike sit in a corner. Ant is not a PG ( he may become) and cannot be the floor general. Tunnel vision passing in the wrong timing. ANT is huge when he take care of the score and defense, but we cannot ask him to do all. I know this is modern NBA where star wanna be the hero ( and get the money related) but this is not in the interest of the team,

Another thing who bother me is Slomo usage. He make great job in defense but is so bad on offense this year that this is a problem.

At least, and im a Rudy fan, i'm annoyed when we try to many times to feed Rudy. Rudy is clumsy and it will never change. Use P&R only when Rudy have enough space to catch the ball and dunk it. Too many TO here too.

[winforlose]

I don't mind ANT take the most shoot. What make me worry is when KAT ( and to a lesser degree Mike) shoot not enough.
The second things we have to work on the the ball movement. I hate when the ball in the hand of ANT and Mike sit in a corner. Ant is not a PG ( he may become) and cannot be the floor general. Tunnel vision passing in the wrong timing. ANT is huge when he take care of the score and defense, but we cannot ask him to do all. I know this is modern NBA where star wanna be the hero ( and get the money related) but this is not in the interest of the team,

Another thing who bother me is Slomo usage. He make great job in defense but is so bad on offense this year that this is a problem.

At least, and im a Rudy fan, i'm annoyed when we try to many times to feed Rudy. Rudy is clumsy and it will never change. Use P&R only when Rudy have enough space to catch the ball and dunk it. Too many TO here too.

There is a rule in basketball that transcends leagues, teams, even competition levels. From Jr high to the Olympics to the NBA you feed the hot hand. Every game every time you feed the hot hand. When you feed the hot hand you get Keegan Murray hitting 12 3s on 13 attempts. You get Steph or Klay hitting 18 in a game. You can see things that shouldn’t be possible become easy. Ant keeps breaking this rule. 4 or 5 games ago he shot 3-19 and wouldn’t stop shooting. Tonight 9-20 when he had 2 teammates shooting in the 60%s. True superstardom is making your team better, not selfishly getting yours. Ant may be exceptionally talented, but tonight he once again proved he isn’t ready to do what it takes to lead.

Kyle might as well be V8 out there. Except V8 basket cut, and played elite defense, and averaged between 8-10 rebounds per game, and was the best offensive rebounder in the league, and excelled in transition. Kyle is a better passer and ball handler and is as threatening as a poodle when behind the 3 point line. Any team that game plans us knows to cheat off him and guard the paint or load up on our stars.


I am a Chris Finch guy. I started the Faith in Finch thread. I want him to be COTY. But he needs to recognize we need more offensive structure. He needs to call for more set plays. He needs to push Karl to shoot more. He needs to change defensive schemes and pressures to put better pressure on the opposing stars. Zion, Maxey, Luka, ect… all go off against us and Finch doesn’t change the defense to get the ball out of their hands. Some of that is the refs but some of that is the scheme. Finch needs to do a better job cleaning up the repeated messes. We might be good enough in the regular season to skate by with these flaws, but come playoff time they will be killers. This is the time to try new things to fix them.

[Clav]

This was a difficult game to watch. Philly announcers on my feed [they are pretty homer] and Embiid baiting foul calls for all 1Q and lots of contact on Wolves players went uncalled. I never felt like the team could get into rhythm as the game progressed and then Embiid actually made some MVP level plays like the baseline jam on Naz and the straight line drive where Naz then fouled him, both leading to massive dunks.

I mean, I get it, Philly's players initiate contact and the refs call it and that's to their benefit but it is such a bad brand of basketball. It seems every possession I'm just rooting for silence, that the whistle doesn't sound off for a foul I'm by no means a Philly hater but I get actually frustrated watching that team play ball (and I think that's how it feels to play against them, too).

I try not to let bball boil me up because I have enough stress on other things, this is relaxation in general, and fun... but this game made me turn off the TV for a while because I was just shaking my head at the officials influencing the game so much.

On to the next one, we can beat LA, who looked outmatched vs Chicago tonight (without Lavine). I hope this loss makes the team angry and we blast the Lakers by 20 tomorrow.

ALSO It's the Winter Solstice tomorrow, more daylight to come! Brighter days ahead.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I agree it's just one game. And finally Mike and Rudy did not play much, they may be okay tomorrow. Let's kick Fakers a.... and all will be fine.

[Zonarosa]

Anyone who think Ant is our best player, think again.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I agree it's just one game. And finally Mike and Rudy did not play much, they may be okay tomorrow. Let's kick Fakers a.... and all will be fine.

Pretty much. Obviously, the Timberwolves (players and coaches) were frustrated by things in that game, including how Embiid is officiated. But I'm ok with Finch not going scorched earth.

It's a long season and the Wolves of old were notorious for falling apart when hit with adversity. A culture change doesn't happen overnight. And it needs to be constantly considered. Finch probably wanted to complain, but realized that there's a limit to its effectiveness.

- Anybody looking at the box score would still see 17 - 25 fg for Embiid and call it sour grapes. 4 fouls early vs. 17 made shots isn't going to get the attention... deserved or not.
- The Wolves have a big game tonight vs. a conference rival tonight, so why take the focus away from that and onto the officials in a game already lost.
- The Wolves only play the 76ers twice... and won't see them in the playoffs. Let Embiid officiating be the Bucks' or Celtics' problem where there's more to be gained from it.
- The Lakers shoot more FTA than their opponent 90% of the time (legit statistic) since the infamous game vs. the Celtics last season. Maybe Finch is waiting to unload tonight where there will be even more eyeballs on the game.


[Note: Embiid has averaged 17+ FTA per game for 4+ seasons vs. the Wolves now. For those who remember two years back... the Wolves overcame 21 FTAs from Embiid (and a 39 - 16 team differential) in a one-point win in a game that ALSO featured just ridiculous flopping from Embiid.]

[winforlose]

I agree it's just one game. And finally Mike and Rudy did not play much, they may be okay tomorrow. Let's kick Fakers a.... and all will be fine.

Pretty much. Obviously, the Timberwolves (players and coaches) were frustrated by things in that game, including how Embiid is officiated. But I'm ok with Finch not going scorched earth.

It's a long season and the Wolves of old were notorious for falling apart when hit with adversity. A culture change doesn't happen overnight. And it needs to be constantly considered. Finch probably wanted to complain, but realized that there's a limit to its effectiveness.

- Anybody looking at the box score would still see 17 - 25 fg for Embiid and call it sour grapes. 4 fouls early vs. 17 made shots isn't going to get the attention... deserved or not.
- The Wolves have a big game tonight vs. a conference rival tonight, so why take the focus away from that and onto the officials in a game already lost.
- The Wolves only play the 76ers twice... and won't see them in the playoffs. Let Embiid officiating be the Bucks' or Celtics' problem where there's more to be gained from it.
- The Lakers shoot more FTA than their opponent 90% of the time (legit statistic) since the infamous game vs. the Celtics last season. Maybe Finch is waiting to unload tonight where there will be even more eyeballs on the game.


[Note: Embiid has averaged 17+ FTA per game for 4+ seasons vs. the Wolves now. For those who remember two years back... the Wolves overcame 21 FTAs from Embiid (and a 39 - 16 team differential) in a one-point win in a game that ALSO featured just ridiculous flopping from Embiid.]

On paper we match up well. AD hasn’t been shooting a ton of 3s and Rudy should give him fits in the paint. Dlo is wildly inconsistent (as always,) whereas Mike is not. Reddish is struggling while Jaden is coming to life. Lebron is Lebron and he is gonna drop 30+ pretty much no matter what, but we have enough fire power in Ant and KAT to survive that. Finally, our defense should contain their offense overall well enough to survive mildly bad officiating. If we go Pelicans or 76ers level we probably lose, but that is true of any game where they don’t let us play defense.

[TimberKat]

Our biggest problem on defense seems to be a very poor job in double team situations. We couldn't contain Murray, Booker, Zion and Embiid in our losses. we need a double teaming scheme when there is a ultra hot player. Naz's defense was non existent at center. He is turning into a poor man's version of Towns.