Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[winforlose]

I don’t think we’ll see Towns be traded, but if he went to BRK, I think it would be fore all their assets besides Bridges, and they’d try to pair them. If they did include Bridges, I think he’d go to a third team and we’d get “stuff.”

My idea is to replace a superstar Towns AND Anderson with two solid forwards with different skillset:

- Isaac is an elite defender (when healthy). He has been averaging 7 PPG, 4.4RPG, 0.7 SPG, 1.2BPG in 15.4 MPG, on 52%FG, 39% 3PT
- Birdges is a solid scorer and solid defender: 20PPG, 4.6RPG, 3.7APG, on 44%FG, 37% 3PT. While Bridges is not a movement shooter we need, he is a solid scoring option and is not a liability in defense. He is compatible with Miller, Gobert, Reid, McDaniels, Edwards, NAW

Also Isaac has non guaranteed contract for next season (fully guaranteed on 1/10/25), which gives us some flexibility, Bridges has team friendly contract for two next full seasons.

Good points, but I think in the unlikely event we trade Towns, and we trade him for two players, I think the bulk of the value would go to the guy we start. For example, Lauri and Sexton, and trade Sexton for a back up forward. I just wish Isaac was better (more reliable) and Bridges was worse. He couldn’t be happy going from #1 option on the Nets to sixth man on the Wolves.

I still see us needing a blue chip in the deal. Sabonis for Hali worked out for both sides. That is why I think Atlanta is the likely trade partner. That said, as Ant continues to improve and become more ball dominant, it will be harder to get everyone their touches and shots. Karl is rare in the sense that his efficiency allows him to get good numbers on fewer shots. Most second stars would be bothered by a decline in their numbers and demand the ball more. I worry that moving Karl would set the stage for a locker room issue. Not a given, but something to think about.

[shrink]

I may have made this point here before (or maybe it was the trade board), but if we were identifying a trade target in a Towns trade, wouldn’t it kind of be Towns himself?

We want to stay big, so we need a big man PF so we can keep McDaniels and Edwards at SF/SG with size advantages. Our PF needs to shoot three’s with Rudy, and preferably drive to the hoop to open up Ant’s midrange and three point game. He needs to be a blue chipper that other teams will want to double team him, so Ant doesn’t face as many double teams himself. Simultaneously, he needs to be very good but not have an ego, so he is willing to pass to Rudy, and let Ant become the star of the team. Loyalty to MIN is needed - we don’t want him demanding a trade after we get him. Experience with Chris Finch and some of the players is a plus.

The downside to Towns is his price - we would want someone cheaper. That said, a guy like I’m describing is not going to be cheap.

[Note30]

And not a great locker room guy.

What did he do!

Beyond apparently being pretty bizarre behind-the-scenes, he has some... uh... interesting social commentary, to be kind. That's my breadcrumbs to look into it if people want to, but political conversation will be immediately nuked off the thread, if I see it.

Okay I see it. Oof.

[Domejandro]

Would you do such trade before draft:

BRO IN: Towns, Howard, Moore
BRO OUT: Mikal Bridges, Cameron Johnson, 2027 BRO FRP

Why for BRO: rebuild around Towns who is from NY.

ORL IN: Cameron Johnson
ORL OUT: Isaac, Howard, two SRPs

Why for ORL: get a big wing shooter

MIN IN: Mikal Bridges, Isaac, 2027 BRO FRP, two SRPs from ORL
MIN OUT: Towns, Moore

Why for MIN: improve depth, complete transformation into four-out scheme around Gobert. Next steps: re-sign Morris, McLaughlin

Gobert/Reid/???
Isaac/Reid + Miller/Minott
McDaniels/Bridges + ???
Edwards/NAW/Clark
Conley/Morris/McLaughlin

Isaac is great defensively when he plays - it just isn’t often enough.

Mikal Bridges is a good player, miscast as a #1. However, he is probably more valuable as a 3-and-D to virtually any other team. Here you have him coming off the bench (not unreasonable), while he is a clear starter for almost every other team.

I don’t think we’ll see Towns be traded, but if he went to BRK, I think it would be fore all their assets besides Bridges, and they’d try to pair them. If they did include Bridges, I think he’d go to a third team and we’d get “stuff.”

For what it is worth, barring a last minute surprise, Jonathan Isaac is projected to play almost sixty games this season. Not a model of health, but with iron man Mikal Bridges coming back in the trade, you could do worse. He would be a pretty fascinating Kyle Anderson replacement.

That said, the idea of Mikal Bridges coming off of the bench is definitely immediately dead-on-arrival, definitely wouldn't happen. The depth-chart would be the following:

Mike Conley /
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Jaylen Clark
Mikal Bridges / Josh Minott / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Jonathan Isaac / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid /

Free Agents: Monte Morris, Jordan McLaughlin, Kyle Anderson, Luka Garza, Daishen Nix

Minnesota would lean into extreme defensive switch-ability and pace. I actually think it is pretty intriguing if a first-round implosion happens. That said, it doesn't make sense for Brooklyn to trade Mikal Bridges, Cameron Johnson, and an unprotected First Round Draft Pick for Karl-Anthony Towns. From my perspective, the entire point of trading for him would be to pair him alongside Mikal Bridges.

[BlacJacMac]

My idea is to replace a superstar Towns AND Anderson with two solid forwards with different skillset:

- Isaac is an elite defender (when healthy). He has been averaging 7 PPG, 4.4RPG, 0.7 SPG, 1.2BPG in 15.4 MPG, on 52%FG, 39% 3PT
- Birdges is a solid scorer and solid defender: 20PPG, 4.6RPG, 3.7APG, on 44%FG, 37% 3PT. While Bridges is not a movement shooter we need, he is a solid scoring option and is not a liability in defense. He is compatible with Miller, Gobert, Reid, McDaniels, Edwards, NAW

Also Isaac has non guaranteed contract for next season (fully guaranteed on 1/10/25), which gives us some flexibility, Bridges has team friendly contract for two next full seasons.

Good points, but I think in the unlikely event we trade Towns, and we trade him for two players, I think the bulk of the value would go to the guy we start. For example, Lauri and Sexton, and trade Sexton for a back up forward. I just wish Isaac was better (more reliable) and Bridges was worse. He couldn’t be happy going from #1 option on the Nets to sixth man on the Wolves.

I still see us needing a blue chip in the deal. Sabonis for Hali worked out for both sides. That is why I think Atlanta is the likely trade partner. That said, as Ant continues to improve and become more ball dominant, it will be harder to get everyone their touches and shots. Karl is rare in the sense that his efficiency allows him to get good numbers on fewer shots. Most second stars would be bothered by a decline in their numbers and demand the ball more. I worry that moving Karl would set the stage for a locker room issue. Not a given, but something to think about.

The problem with getting a blue chip is you have to pay a blue chip.

I'd imagine a big part of trading KAT would be to have enough money to resign Naz and NAW after next season. Maybe SloMo as well. Ideally (I guess) you trade him for up and coming players on reasonable deals and picks.

No matter who owns the Wolves, I don't see us spending like the Warriors. So would you rather have KAT or Naz plus NAW and whatever cheaper players and picks you could get for Towns?

[BlacJacMac]

And not a great locker room guy.

What did he do!

Beyond apparently being pretty bizarre behind-the-scenes, he has some... uh... interesting social commentary, to be kind. That's my breadcrumbs to look into it if people want to, but political conversation will be immediately nuked off the thread, if I see it.

That is exactly the answer that I was trying to come up with to not crash the thread. Thanks!

[minimus]

Good points, but I think in the unlikely event we trade Towns, and we trade him for two players, I think the bulk of the value would go to the guy we start. For example, Lauri and Sexton, and trade Sexton for a back up forward. I just wish Isaac was better (more reliable) and Bridges was worse. He couldn’t be happy going from #1 option on the Nets to sixth man on the Wolves.

I still see us needing a blue chip in the deal. Sabonis for Hali worked out for both sides. That is why I think Atlanta is the likely trade partner. That said, as Ant continues to improve and become more ball dominant, it will be harder to get everyone their touches and shots. Karl is rare in the sense that his efficiency allows him to get good numbers on fewer shots. Most second stars would be bothered by a decline in their numbers and demand the ball more. I worry that moving Karl would set the stage for a locker room issue. Not a given, but something to think about.

The problem with getting a blue chip is you have to pay a blue chip.

I'd imagine a big part of trading KAT would be to have enough money to resign Naz and NAW after next season. Maybe SloMo as well. Ideally (I guess) you trade him for up and coming players on reasonable deals and picks.

No matter who owns the Wolves, I don't see us spending like the Warriors. So would you rather have KAT or Naz plus NAW and whatever cheaper players and picks you could get for Towns?

Yes, this is my question as well. I have thinking this way: apparently we can't afford Gobert, Reid, Towns AND Anderson. What we need to do to replace BOTH: production from Towns AND Anderson

[shrink]

I think both owner groups want to pay the lux next year, in an effort to get the public behind a new stadium.

It’s the following year that makes me wonder. Naz gave us a discount when he signed the extension, for $13, $14, $15. However, that $15 is a player option, which he will likely decline. The masses indicate that means the Wolves must dump Towns to pay Naz. However, if the team is successful and wants to stick together, I think there is a better way.

Rudy Gobert’s contract for 25-26 is a $45.6 mil player option. That’s a lot of money, especially for a guy who will be 34 when the PO ends. If Rudy is keeping fit (and he seems to take immaculate care of his body), Tim Connelly could ask him to decline the option, and then give him a three year extension for, say $90 mil. Rudy gets years, and the team gives the extra Rudy savings to Naz.

Again, this doesn’t save money - the team will be in Year Two of paying big lux taxes. It just rearranges the money, so we don’t have to choose between losing Naz or Karl.

[BlacJacMac]

I think both owner groups want to pay the lux next year, in an effort to get the public behind a new stadium.

It’s the following year that makes me wonder. Naz gave us a discount when he signed the extension, for $13, $14, $15. However, that $15 is a player option, which he will likely decline. The masses indicate that means the Wolves must dump Towns to pay Naz. However, if the team is successful and wants to stick together, I think there is a better way.

Rudy Gobert’s contract for 25-26 is a $45.6 mil player option. That’s a lot of money, especially for a guy who will be 34 when the PO ends. If Rudy is keeping fit (and he seems to take immaculate care of his body), Tim Connelly could ask him to decline the option, and then give him a three year extension for, say $90 mil. Rudy gets years, and the team gives the extra Rudy savings to Naz.

Again, this doesn’t save money - the team will be in Year Two of paying big lux taxes. It just rearranges the money, so we don’t have to choose between losing Naz or Karl.

NAW should be in line for a pretty sizable raise the same year as Naz. He's turned himself into a premiere 3&D guy - with a bit of creation ability as well. So I tend to frame it as Naz+NAW vs KAT.

[Klomp]

Good points, but I think in the unlikely event we trade Towns, and we trade him for two players, I think the bulk of the value would go to the guy we start. For example, Lauri and Sexton, and trade Sexton for a back up forward. I just wish Isaac was better (more reliable) and Bridges was worse. He couldn’t be happy going from #1 option on the Nets to sixth man on the Wolves.

I still see us needing a blue chip in the deal. Sabonis for Hali worked out for both sides. That is why I think Atlanta is the likely trade partner. That said, as Ant continues to improve and become more ball dominant, it will be harder to get everyone their touches and shots. Karl is rare in the sense that his efficiency allows him to get good numbers on fewer shots. Most second stars would be bothered by a decline in their numbers and demand the ball more. I worry that moving Karl would set the stage for a locker room issue. Not a given, but something to think about.

The problem with getting a blue chip is you have to pay a blue chip.

I'd imagine a big part of trading KAT would be to have enough money to resign Naz and NAW after next season. Maybe SloMo as well. Ideally (I guess) you trade him for up and coming players on reasonable deals and picks.

No matter who owns the Wolves, I don't see us spending like the Warriors. So would you rather have KAT or Naz plus NAW and whatever cheaper players and picks you could get for Towns?

That's why you do something like what Indiana did....get someone at the end of their rookie-scale deal or early in their rookie extension like Haliburton was. You add in guys with shorter deals who can either be allowed to expire or moved on for another piece down the road.

The problem is identifying which of those are out there and available in a trade for a center. I agree with wfl that Atlanta makes a good amount of sense, but I think it's an offer that can certainly be beat. I've honestly wondered how Memphis feels about Ja Morant at the moment (I think JJJ is a great frontcourt pairing with Towns). This is where I pushed that Immanuel Quickley is one of the few young guards that might have been available. Who knows what Brooklyn's plan is, but they could probably put something together. What is the future of Cade Cunningham in Detroit?

[shrink]

I think both owner groups want to pay the lux next year, in an effort to get the public behind a new stadium.

It’s the following year that makes me wonder. Naz gave us a discount when he signed the extension, for $13, $14, $15. However, that $15 is a player option, which he will likely decline. The masses indicate that means the Wolves must dump Towns to pay Naz. However, if the team is successful and wants to stick together, I think there is a better way.

Rudy Gobert’s contract for 25-26 is a $45.6 mil player option. That’s a lot of money, especially for a guy who will be 34 when the PO ends. If Rudy is keeping fit (and he seems to take immaculate care of his body), Tim Connelly could ask him to decline the option, and then give him a three year extension for, say $90 mil. Rudy gets years, and the team gives the extra Rudy savings to Naz.

Again, this doesn’t save money - the team will be in Year Two of paying big lux taxes. It just rearranges the money, so we don’t have to choose between losing Naz or Karl.

NAW should be in line for a pretty sizable raise the same year as Naz. He's turned himself into a premiere 3&D guy - with a bit of creation ability as well. So I tend to frame it as Naz+NAW vs KAT.

If Gobert took a $15 mil pay cut, could we give $5 to Naz (starts at $20) and $10 to NAW (starts at $15, about the MLE)?

Maybe pay an additional $5 to keep Naz, while salaries (and the luxury threshold) rise in a couple years?

[shrink]

I’m not endorsing either trade, but would Suggs and Isaac make sense for Towns? For Gobert?

Suggs is a career 33% 3P%, but he’s 40% this year. What would Suggs next contract look like?

[BlacJacMac]

I’m not endorsing either trade, but would Suggs and Isaac make sense for Towns? For Gobert?

Suggs is a career 33% 3P%, but he’s 40% this year. What would Suggs next contract look like?

I don't want Isaac, but Suggs could be an intriguing backcourt mate to Ant long-term. Neither guy is a true point, but both are looking to be, at worst, great secondary playmakers.

And I think Suggs shooting might be real.

2021: 36% overall, 21% on 4 3PA.
2022: 42% overall, 33% on 4 3PA.
2023: 47% overall, 40% on 5 3PA.

Good luck scoring on Suggs/Ant/McDaniels/Isaac/Gobert.

But I'd probably start Naz at PF and try to flip Isaac for something else.

[Klomp]

What would Suggs next contract look like?

I would guess somewhere in the realm of Jaden's, but possibly a little higher.

[gandlogo]

I’m not endorsing either trade, but would Suggs and Isaac make sense for Towns? For Gobert?

Suggs is a career 33% 3P%, but he’s 40% this year. What would Suggs next contract look like?

I love everything about Isaac except his durability. Is he destined for early retirement? Or is he going to be Orlando's David Ortiz and finally string good health together and play many years at his highest level elsewhere? Nobody knows. I'd swap Gobert for Towns and do that trade based on upside, and how crazy good the Wolves' perimeter defense would be - because I think Ant and Suggs would push each other even higher defensively. Maybe get a protected first included for the Wolves?

[minimus]

I still see us needing a blue chip in the deal. Sabonis for Hali worked out for both sides. That is why I think Atlanta is the likely trade partner. That said, as Ant continues to improve and become more ball dominant, it will be harder to get everyone their touches and shots. Karl is rare in the sense that his efficiency allows him to get good numbers on fewer shots. Most second stars would be bothered by a decline in their numbers and demand the ball more. I worry that moving Karl would set the stage for a locker room issue. Not a given, but something to think about.

The problem with getting a blue chip is you have to pay a blue chip.

I'd imagine a big part of trading KAT would be to have enough money to resign Naz and NAW after next season. Maybe SloMo as well. Ideally (I guess) you trade him for up and coming players on reasonable deals and picks.

No matter who owns the Wolves, I don't see us spending like the Warriors. So would you rather have KAT or Naz plus NAW and whatever cheaper players and picks you could get for Towns?

That's why you do something like what Indiana did....get someone at the end of their rookie-scale deal or early in their rookie extension like Haliburton was. You add in guys with shorter deals who can either be allowed to expire or moved on for another piece down the road.

The problem is identifying which of those are out there and available in a trade for a center. I agree with wfl that Atlanta makes a good amount of sense, but I think it's an offer that can certainly be beat. I've honestly wondered how Memphis feels about Ja Morant at the moment (I think JJJ is a great frontcourt pairing with Towns). This is where I pushed that Immanuel Quickley is one of the few young guards that might have been available. Who knows what Brooklyn's plan is, but they could probably put something together. What is the future of Cade Cunningham in Detroit?

Towns for Cameron Johnson, Noah Clowney, 2027 FRP, 2028 FRP, 2029 FRP

Watch on YouTube

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Re-sign Anderson, Morris, McLaughlin.

Gobert/Reid/Clowney
Anderson/Miller/Minott
McDaniels/Johnson/???
Edwards/NAW/Moore + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Morris/McLaughlin

Cameron Johnson is a good fit here as big wing / movement shooter. He fits here because in this case we will have a defensive core Gobert-Anderson-McDaniels-NAW, but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work. Noah Clowney is very young 19yo bigman with developing skills. If he can improve his body and jumpshot he might be a perfect mobile stretch 4/5 for second unit.

[BlacJacMac]

I don't hate it, but I think Naz is 100% the starting PF in that scenario - and I don't see any way McDaniels and Johnson are happy playing 24 MPG.

but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work.

There are no minutes for another player at all.

You have 11 guys deserving regular rotation minutes - and that's not counting Minott, Clowney, Moore, Clark or any draft picks.

[shrink]

I don't hate it, but I think Naz is 100% the starting PF in that scenario - and I don't see any way McDaniels and Johnson are happy playing 24 MPG.

but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work.

There are no minutes for another player at all.

You have 11 guys deserving regular rotation minutes - and that's not counting Minott, Clowney, Moore, Clark or any draft picks.

Yeah, if you are thinking about a likely trade target, the player should aim towards consolidation of talent. We already have good players we can’t find enough minutes for - we need at least one clear starter, significantly better than a current starter (with Towns gone, the PF spot would be significantly better than Naz). Personally, I think if KAT leaves, patient Naz deserves a chance to start, so a trade just makes us worse.

Also, we are win now, so the value of a trade should barely come from picks. We want one, and at most two, win now players with comparable impact to Towns, or else a Towns trade is taking us in the wrong direction.

[BlacJacMac]

I don't hate it, but I think Naz is 100% the starting PF in that scenario - and I don't see any way McDaniels and Johnson are happy playing 24 MPG.

but we would need a konckdown shooter to make this roster work.

There are no minutes for another player at all.

You have 11 guys deserving regular rotation minutes - and that's not counting Minott, Clowney, Moore, Clark or any draft picks.

Yeah, if you are thinking about a likely trade target, the player should aim towards consolidation of talent. We already have good players we can’t find enough minutes for - we need at least one clear starter, significantly better than a current starter (with Towns gone, the PF spot would be significantly better than Naz). Personally, I think if KAT leaves, patient Naz deserves a chance to start, so a trade just makes us worse.

Also, we are win now, so the value of a trade should barely come from picks. We want one, and at most two, win now players with comparable impact to Towns, or else a Towns trade is taking us in the wrong direction.

I think you almost have to look for a long-term PG if you trade KAT. My guess is Conley isn't a starter by the end of his extension, and I'm not sure Morris is a starting PG on a contender (but definitely a super valuable piece).

Best case is you're building around Ant, McD, Naz, NAW and (hopefully) Miller for long-term success

Dejounte Murray will be making like half of KAT's salary next year. Or going back to the idea of (not a PG, but) Suggs.

I guess an ideal (but totally unrealistic) trade would be KAT for Cunningham and Duran. You have your young backcourt mate to go with Ant and Gobert's eventual replacement. But it makes no sense for Detroit.

[Klomp]

If PG isn't the ultimate target and you just go for the best offer, I think it's fair to wonder about Jaylen Brown. It wouldn't be a cap savings deal necessarily, but would be a cap shifting, as the money goes from the bigs to the wings.