Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[KGdaBom]

I started this in the KAT thread, but it belongs here.

For those who are interested in trading KAT I think this report is very intriguing.

The Atlanta Hawks are likely to trade one of Trae Young or Dejounte Murray, sources told Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

Young was recently cleared to return to practice following finger surgery.

The Hawks will play the Bulls in the play-in game next week.

MARC STEIN/THE STEIN LINE

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be Young and he and KAT would blend beautifully together.

I'd like to make that deal and keep draft picks out of it because I don't think we could get much in the way of draft picks. I propose KAT straight up for Murray and Capela. Here's looking at their contracts.
Dejounte Murray
2024-25 Contract details by year 28 $24,799,600 $699,999 - - $25,499,599 18.08%
$24,799,600
($24,799,600)
2025-26 Contract details by year 29 $26,783,600 $755,968 - - $27,539,568 17.76%
$27,539,568
($52,339,168)
2026-27 Contract details by year 30 $28,767,536 $756,000 - - $29,523,536 17.30%
$29,523,536
($81,862,704)
2027-28 Contract details by year 31
Player
$30,751,504 $756,000 - - $31,507,504 16.79%
$31,507,504
($113,370,208

Clint Capela

2024-25 Contract details by year 30 $22,265,280 - $2,000,000 - $22,265,280 15.79%
$22,265,280
($42,881,280)
$22,265,28
Just signed for one season and is turning 30 in one month.
Rounding the numbers off it's it's 46 million for the pair next year.
KAT's contract
2024-25 Contract details by year 28
Estimate
$49,350,000 - - - $49,350,000
Estimate
35.00%
$49,350,000
($49,350,000)
2025-26 Contract details by year 29
Estimate
$53,298,000 - - - $53,298,000 34.36%
$53,298,000
($102,648,000)
2026-27 Contract details by year 30
Estimate
$57,246,000 - - - $57,246,000 33.55%
$57,246,000
($159,894,000)
2027-28 Contract details by year 31
Player
$61,194,000 - - - $61,194,000 32.61%
$61,194,000
($221,088,000)
One year of Murray and Capela at a slight savings. Then we let Capela walk and it's Miller Time. I'd feel really bad about doing KAT dirty like that. I do believe KAT will pair very nicely with Young.

I'm not averse to a draft pick or two coming our way in the deal, but I like Capela and his expiring contract after next year. It almost makes too much sense and we may have to do it.

Win for now has already brought up the point that Capela isn't quite the shooter we would want. That's true, but he's a good player and perfect for salary matching. His contract expires after this year so we can avoid the repeater tax. He's also expendable for Atlanta due to Okongwu. I'm trying to make our offer one that is realistic.
This is my first deep dive into a trade proposal. Shoot me down if you must.

[minimus]

The Atlanta Hawks are likely to trade one of Trae Young or Dejounte Murray, sources told Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

Read on Twitter

I would strongly advise AGAINST bringing here either Murray or Young. IMO their egos are much bigger than hypothetical improvement over Conley/Morris unselfishness, grit and veteran presence. Ideally I would form "The Holy Trinity" at PG with Conley/Morris AND talented young prospect from draft (or trade) who can learn from these two and grow into starting role.

[KGdaBom]

The Atlanta Hawks are likely to trade one of Trae Young or Dejounte Murray, sources told Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

Read on Twitter

I would strongly advise AGAINST bringing here either Murray or Young. IMO their egos are much bigger than hypothetical improvement over Conley/Morris unselfishness, grit and veteran presence. Ideally I would form "The Holy Trinity" at PG with Conley/Morris AND talented young prospect from draft (or trade) who can learn from these two and grow into starting role.

When Murray was on San Antonio he was a hard hat wearing, lunch pail carrying, paragon of unselfish grit. Maybe he got away from it a little, but he does everything well. Conley is 500 years old now. I like him, but he can't be our plan moving forward.

[minimus]

The Atlanta Hawks are likely to trade one of Trae Young or Dejounte Murray, sources told Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

Read on Twitter

I would strongly advise AGAINST bringing here either Murray or Young. IMO their egos are much bigger than hypothetical improvement over Conley/Morris unselfishness, grit and veteran presence. Ideally I would form "The Holy Trinity" at PG with Conley/Morris AND talented young prospect from draft (or trade) who can learn from these two and grow into starting role.

When Murray was on San Antonio he was a hard hat wearing, lunch pail carrying, paragon of unselfish grit. Maybe he got away from it a little, but he does everything well. Conley is 500 years old now. I like him, but he can't be our plan moving forward.

Well, Conley/Morris/McLaughlin are already doing many things well:

- feed our main scorers and Rudy
- do not turn ball over
- move well without the ball, relocating on perimeter to get open
- hit open threes
- give 100% effort in defense

I can see Dejounte Murray as improvement in defense (I saw stats the he has been defended a lot this year as PoA, cant find whether he is elite in this). But is he better facilitator? PnR maestro? And he is definitely worse at hitting open threes than Conley/Morris. He might bring creativity in offense, because he can create his own shot at some degree. But I am questioning here whether he is really a level above as scorer as our current group?

Next two years Conley will make 10 and 11 mil, NAW will make 4 mil, I hope we will re-sign Monte Morris with discount, and keep McLaughlin for vetmin. From financial standpoint, I would rather invest money in other positions/roles: big wing, shooter. IMO the most important thing is to invest time (read development resources) in right young players. See how DEN developed Christian Braun, Peyton Watson. I know there is no sure thing 20-40 picks in draft, but TC really needs to scout and draft due to diligence as Rosas said. At the moment I am ok with Garza, Minott, Miller, Nix, TJ Warren. But we need to both continue to develop them and build on top: use wisely two draft picks, re-sign McLaughlin, Morris (TJ Warren?) for vetmin.

[shrink]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

[Neeva]

No one here wants Capela except one person. I think if Connelly were to trade Kat to the Hawks it would be for Murray/Hunter and picks. Wolves would be deep in the perimeter but I don’t think Murray is a long term solution at PG, he can obviously play there for some minutes but he’s not a real point.

So wolves would need to keep developing Ant as pg of future and see how the Ant/murray backcourt works . Also if Murray is happy going from starter on a mid team to 6th man of the year on a contender. if not then they can flip Murray or one of the picks for a point guard(Suggs?) or simply use Atlanta first round pick(mccain?) to take over after Conley.

I honestly think Murray’s stock will rise dramatically on the wolves. While Kat will obviously be a perennial all star in the east. Wolves with more cap flexibility and some more frps recovered will be able to build a more complete team, to be contender all throughout Ant’s career, and hopefully Rudy takes a massive pay cut in next contract.

[BlacJacMac]

No one here wants Capela except one person. I think if Connelly were to trade Kat to the Hawks it would be for Murray/Hunter and picks. Wolves would be deep in the perimeter but I don’t think Murray is a long term solution at PG, he can obviously play there for some minutes but he’s not a real point.

So wolves would need to keep developing Ant as pg of future and see how the Ant/murray backcourt works . Also if Murray is happy going from starter on a mid team to 6th man of the year on a contender. if not then they can flip Murray or one of the picks for a point guard(Suggs?) or simply use Atlanta first round pick(mccain?) to take over after Conley.

He averaged 9.2 Assists vs 2.6 TOs in his final season in San Antonio. And he's been over 6 Assists both years in ATL - despite playing ext to Young.

I love his fit next to Ant. Both are bigger guys that can switch defensively and play off each other offensively. Not to mention how helpful it would be to have our starting backcourt average more than 10 rebounds.

[shrink]

Find me a player better than Towns, that we add assets to get.

[Note30]

Find me a player better than Towns, that we add assets to get.

That's not a million years old?

[shrink]

Find me a player better than Towns, that we add assets to get.

That's not a million years old?

Kind of my point. I don’t think that player exists, even if we add assets.

I assume we are a win now team, and want to compete for a championship next year, right?

So not a trade package dividing up talent with picks and, “maybe he’ll eventually grow into someone as good as Towns” young guy?

[Klomp]

Find me a player better than Towns, that we add assets to get.

That's not a million years old?

Kind of my point. I don’t think that player exists, even if we add assets.

I assume we are a win now team, and want to compete for a championship next year, right?

So not a trade package dividing up talent with picks and, “maybe he’ll eventually grow into someone as good as Towns” young guy?

Doesn't exist because Glen Taylor would never willingly pursue a player like that

[shrink]

The problem with consolidation trades isn’t Taylor. He didn’t stop the Gobert trade. He did the Butler trade.

The problem with players of this caliber is that so few want (maybe “wanted” is the right word now?) to be in Minnesota, and players at this level have the stature in the league to force a trade. MIN can’t afford to invest a ton of trade assets or salary into a top player that doesn’t want to be here. We clearly learned that with Jimmy.

When MIN proposed the Gobert trade, they had Rudy go home and sleep on it, and he decided he was interested in seeing what it would be like to come to MIN, and play with another star big man. The sad truth is, MIN’s pool of star players that would say yes to us has been small. But even though Towns is the biggest piece than we’ve ever traded since Garnett, and 2024 MIN might look more attractive now, I doubt there are many superstars better than Towns lining up, hoping for a chance to join the Timberwolves.

[minimus]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

I can imagine DeJounte Murray becoming an elite defensive guard in MIN acting with Gobert, McDaniels and NAW. Trae Young defense is so bad, so I can see how it is dragging system defense in ATL down. But Murray wanted out of SAS because he wanted a bigger role. That is why I wonder whether he is willing to sacrifice his ego and play WITHIN team concept? If the answer is yes, he might be a perfect connecting tissue between Gobert, McDaniels, Edwards and NAW. Just roaming, playing passing lanes, rebounding, rotating and contesting shots on perimeter. I dont see this as highlight reel work, more a high effort, low profile work. If this can be a definition of bigger role for Murray, then it might be win-win for trade for MIN. Also hypothetical trade framework can check many boxes:

- Towns goes to East, and
- Towns pairs with another superstar Young
- Towns pairs with Snyder who I have faith in as competent, modern coach
- MIN get starting level comboguard
- MIN get additional depth with either Hunter/Bogdanovic

The only thing is that ATL lack picks to include, but I wonder is combination of 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs will be enough?

Towns, Moore for Hunter, Murray, 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs

Re-sign Anderson, Morris.

Gobert/Reid/???
Reid/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Hunter/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Murray + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Murray/Morris

[wolves_89]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

I can imagine DeJounte Murray becoming an elite defensive guard in MIN acting with Gobert, McDaniels and NAW. Trae Young defense is so bad, so I can see how it is dragging system defense in ATL down. But Murray wanted out of SAS because he wanted a bigger role. That is why I wonder whether he is willing to sacrifice his ego and play WITHIN team concept? If the answer is yes, he might be a perfect connecting tissue between Gobert, McDaniels, Edwards and NAW. Just roaming, playing passing lanes, rebounding, rotating and contesting shots on perimeter. I dont see this as highlight reel work, more a high effort, low profile work. If this can be a definition of bigger role for Murray, then it might be win-win for trade for MIN. Also hypothetical trade framework can check many boxes:

- Towns goes to East, and
- Towns pairs with another superstar Young
- Towns pairs with Snyder who I have faith in as competent, modern coach
- MIN get starting level comboguard
- MIN get additional depth with either Hunter/Bogdanovic

The only thing is that ATL lack picks to include, but I wonder is combination of 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs will be enough?

Towns, Moore for Hunter, Murray, 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs

Re-sign Anderson, Morris.

Gobert/Reid/???
Reid/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Hunter/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Murray + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Murray/Morris

The whole point of trading Towns is to reduce the payroll, but Murray+Hunter make pretty close to the same amount over the next 3 seasons. If we aren't saving money, I'd rather have KAT than the Hawks package.

[minimus]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

I can imagine DeJounte Murray becoming an elite defensive guard in MIN acting with Gobert, McDaniels and NAW. Trae Young defense is so bad, so I can see how it is dragging system defense in ATL down. But Murray wanted out of SAS because he wanted a bigger role. That is why I wonder whether he is willing to sacrifice his ego and play WITHIN team concept? If the answer is yes, he might be a perfect connecting tissue between Gobert, McDaniels, Edwards and NAW. Just roaming, playing passing lanes, rebounding, rotating and contesting shots on perimeter. I dont see this as highlight reel work, more a high effort, low profile work. If this can be a definition of bigger role for Murray, then it might be win-win for trade for MIN. Also hypothetical trade framework can check many boxes:

- Towns goes to East, and
- Towns pairs with another superstar Young
- Towns pairs with Snyder who I have faith in as competent, modern coach
- MIN get starting level comboguard
- MIN get additional depth with either Hunter/Bogdanovic

The only thing is that ATL lack picks to include, but I wonder is combination of 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs will be enough?

Towns, Moore for Hunter, Murray, 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs

Re-sign Anderson, Morris.

Gobert/Reid/???
Reid/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Hunter/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Murray + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Murray/Morris

The whole point of trading Towns is to reduce the payroll, but Murray+Hunter make pretty close to the same amount over the next 3 seasons. If we aren't saving money, I'd rather have KAT than the Hawks package.

You are correct, I've completely missed that from next year Murray will be paid according new contract extension...

[BlacJacMac]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

I can imagine DeJounte Murray becoming an elite defensive guard in MIN acting with Gobert, McDaniels and NAW. Trae Young defense is so bad, so I can see how it is dragging system defense in ATL down. But Murray wanted out of SAS because he wanted a bigger role. That is why I wonder whether he is willing to sacrifice his ego and play WITHIN team concept? If the answer is yes, he might be a perfect connecting tissue between Gobert, McDaniels, Edwards and NAW. Just roaming, playing passing lanes, rebounding, rotating and contesting shots on perimeter. I dont see this as highlight reel work, more a high effort, low profile work. If this can be a definition of bigger role for Murray, then it might be win-win for trade for MIN. Also hypothetical trade framework can check many boxes:

- Towns goes to East, and
- Towns pairs with another superstar Young
- Towns pairs with Snyder who I have faith in as competent, modern coach
- MIN get starting level comboguard
- MIN get additional depth with either Hunter/Bogdanovic

The only thing is that ATL lack picks to include, but I wonder is combination of 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs will be enough?

Towns, Moore for Hunter, Murray, 2024 ATL FRP and four SRPs

Re-sign Anderson, Morris.

Gobert/Reid/???
Reid/Anderson/Miller
McDaniels/Hunter/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Murray + Clarke (2W)
Conley/Murray/Morris

The whole point of trading Towns is to reduce the payroll, but Murray+Hunter make pretty close to the same amount over the next 3 seasons. If we aren't saving money, I'd rather have KAT than the Hawks package.

Right. One of the appeals of Murray is he's locked in at ~half of KAT's salary for the next 4 years. So anything else coming back should be a combination of expirings, rookie scale players and draft picks.

[KGdaBom]

Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.

I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game

Capela is for salary matching and the expiring.

[KGdaBom]

No one here wants Capela except one person. I think if Connelly were to trade Kat to the Hawks it would be for Murray/Hunter and picks. Wolves would be deep in the perimeter but I don’t think Murray is a long term solution at PG, he can obviously play there for some minutes but he’s not a real point.

So wolves would need to keep developing Ant as pg of future and see how the Ant/murray backcourt works . Also if Murray is happy going from starter on a mid team to 6th man of the year on a contender. if not then they can flip Murray or one of the picks for a point guard(Suggs?) or simply use Atlanta first round pick(mccain?) to take over after Conley.

I honestly think Murray’s stock will rise dramatically on the wolves. While Kat will obviously be a perennial all star in the east. Wolves with more cap flexibility and some more frps recovered will be able to build a more complete team, to be contender all throughout Ant’s career, and hopefully Rudy takes a massive pay cut in next contract.

I like Capela, but he's only in my proposed deal for salary matching and then expiring. If we trade for Hunter instead we get a completely useless player that keeps us in salary cap hell.

[frankenwolf]

I do not think that trading KAT is the way to go. Let's say KAT is traded and then Rudy retires in three years. Then what? Are you sure we got a decent return for KAT? Did we get a big man to replace Rudy? If we are wanting to maximize Ant, trade Rudy. If everyone is worried about payroll, trade them all and start over again and enjoy another 20 years of inept Minnesota basketball.

As far as I am concerned, the only trades the Wolves need to be thinking about are those that improve the fringes. We have a great core and should be able to sustain it for the next 5-7 years. If I owned this team, I'm sure the revenue made from multiple championships will off set the tax the team has to pay.

[gandlogo]

Gobert for Murray and Okongu.