Clippers at Wolves NOW

[thinktank]

Lost some of his low post game? When do they go to him there?

You cannot be serious.

I am serious. It doesn't seem to me they post him up much. He's always shooting from the outside or driving to the basket. I'd love to see him post up more against good matchups which is most everybody.

He posts less this year but he’s scored a lot on post ups. The previous time we played the Clippers he abused Mann on post-ups.

[Calinks]

I don't think we need to get too down about this. We may not be a championship team right now but we have made a massive leap this season. No team goes from being mediocre to being a champion in one year. It's unheard of. The leap we have made already is damn near unheard of. It would have been realistic for us to be about where the Suns are right now, we are far better than that.

We just have more room to grow. This team is probably not ready and that shouldn't be shocking. We have some big holes. I think its pretty clear we are very talented and good. I think that if we played to our full potential, we can stomp most teams in the league including the Clippers, I honestly think we have a better team after seeing these 3 games but, again, our mental game might level the playing field.

Exerprence, BBIQ, poise, execution. These are major factors in the playoffs. These are areas that worry me the most. I think they will improve for us in the coming seasons but we might not be there yet and that's ok. We have already made massive leaps in that regard this year.

Another way to look at it. That was an uncharacteristically bad game. We got nothing from Conely, Naz, Jaden. Nobody stepped up. KAT got shutdown. We had zero fast break points. How often are those things going to happen? Naz gets 5 points we win that game. It was a really bad night for us and we lost by 1 point.

This is a damn good team it just has some issues and it still has lots of room to be better. We are probably playing at about 85-90 percent of our full potential and we have been the number 1 seed for most of the season.

[winforlose]

I don't think we need to get too down about this. We may not be a championship team right now but we have made a massive leap this season. No team goes from being mediocre to being a champion in one year. It's unheard of. The leap we have made already is damn near unheard of. It would have been realistic for us to be about where the Suns are right now, we are far better than that.

We just have more room to grow. This team is probably not ready and that shouldn't be shocking. We have some big holes. I think its pretty clear we are very talented and good. I think that if we played to our full potential, we can stomp most teams in the league including the Clippers, I honestly think we have a better team after seeing these 3 games but, again, our mental game might level the playing field.

Exerprence, BBIQ, poise, execution. These are major factors in the playoffs. These are areas that worry me the most. I think they will improve for us in the coming seasons but we might not be there yet and that's ok. We have already made massive leaps in that regard this year.

Another way to look at it. That was an uncharacteristically bad game. We got nothing from Conely, Naz, Jaden. Nobody stepped up. KAT got shutdown. We had zero fast break points. How often are those things going to happen? Naz gets 5 points we win that game. It was a really bad night for us and we lost by 1 point.

This is a damn good team it just has some issues and it still has lots of room to be better. We are probably playing at about 85-90 percent of our full potential and we have been the number 1 seed for most of the season.

Denver made a similar leap last year. Last year was not indicative of anything with Towns out for 2/3rds of the season, Rudy playing banged up, Naz and Jaden missing the playoffs, ect…

[BlacJacMac]

Denver made a similar leap last year. Last year was not indicative of anything with Towns out for 2/3rds of the season, Rudy playing banged up, Naz and Jaden missing the playoffs, ect…

No they did not.

Last year was their 5th straight Playoff appearances, and in the previous 4 years they made the Conference Semis twice and Conference Finals once.

Their 2 superstars had four playoff series wins under their belt before last year.

[winforlose]

Denver made a similar leap last year. Last year was not indicative of anything with Towns out for 2/3rds of the season, Rudy playing banged up, Naz and Jaden missing the playoffs, ect…

No they did not.

Last year was their 5th straight Playoff appearances, and in the previous 4 years they made the Conference Semis twice and Conference Finals once.

Their 2 superstars had four playoff series wins under their belt before last year.

As the playoffs didn’t happen yet, we don’t know how far we will go. I was referring to record and seeding. They jumped to #1 last year after being 6th the year prior.

We have been in 2 straight playoffs with a 3rd very likely. Also while play in wins don’t count as playoff wins, they are single elimination games and that does matter for playoff experience.

As for how far our leap will take us, we have the talent to go as far as we want. We just need to clean up the self sabotaging mistakes and refine our schemes.

[BlacJacMac]

Denver made a similar leap last year. Last year was not indicative of anything with Towns out for 2/3rds of the season, Rudy playing banged up, Naz and Jaden missing the playoffs, ect…

No they did not.

Last year was their 5th straight Playoff appearances, and in the previous 4 years they made the Conference Semis twice and Conference Finals once.

Their 2 superstars had four playoff series wins under their belt before last year.

As the playoffs didn’t happen yet, we don’t know how far we will go. I was referring to record and seeding. They jumped to #1 last year after being 6th the year prior.

We have been in 2 straight playoffs with a 3rd very likely. Also while play in wins don’t count as playoff wins, they are single elimination games and that does matter for playoff experience.

As for how far our leap will take us, we have the talent to go as far as we want. We just need to clean up the self sabotaging mistakes and refine our schemes.

You're cherry picking without context. Yes they were 6th the year before last, but they were 3rd, 3rd and 2nd the previous 3 years. They were a much more proven team than we were. And their "jump" was because Jamal Murray missed the entire 21-22 season.

[winforlose]

No they did not.

Last year was their 5th straight Playoff appearances, and in the previous 4 years they made the Conference Semis twice and Conference Finals once.

Their 2 superstars had four playoff series wins under their belt before last year.

As the playoffs didn’t happen yet, we don’t know how far we will go. I was referring to record and seeding. They jumped to #1 last year after being 6th the year prior.

We have been in 2 straight playoffs with a 3rd very likely. Also while play in wins don’t count as playoff wins, they are single elimination games and that does matter for playoff experience.

As for how far our leap will take us, we have the talent to go as far as we want. We just need to clean up the self sabotaging mistakes and refine our schemes.

You're cherry picking without context. Yes they were 6th the year before last, but they were 3rd, 3rd and 2nd the previous 3 years. They were a much more proven team than we were. And their "jump" was because Jamal Murray missed the entire 21-22 season.

You just made my point for me. “ And their "jump" was because Jamal Murray missed the entire 21-22 season.” Our jump is because we are finally healthy. Karl missed a chunk, and was incredibly sick before the 22-23. He was no where close to 100%. Rudy was dealing with back issues and other health stuff from the summer basketball before the season as well. Getting healthy made us make the jump. As to your other point, we traded for Rudy. Getting an elite rim defender who happens to lead the league in various years in TS% and rebounding with multiple defensive player of the year and All NBA honors is enough to make anyone jump. Look at Cleveland (the 2nd time,) and Miami, when they added LBJ. Look at Boston after they brought in KG (and more.) Bringing in a superstar and experiencing a rapid assent is not unprecedented.

[BlacJacMac]

I most certainly did NOT make your point.

The Nugget were a team that won 4 Playoff series in 3 years - and at least one series in all 3 years. Then they had a down year because they lost their clear 2nd best player for the full season and playoffs.

That does not, in any way, compare to the Wolves who haven't won a Playoff series in 20 years and have only played in 3 total series since that time.

I love Rudy as much as anyone, but its absurd to compare him to LeBron or prime KG.

[Calinks]

I have to agree with BlacJacMac. The Nuggets were on a much more regular trajectory. They got better over time and aren't as big of a shock. On top of that, they had an MVP leading their team. The Timberwolves, have only been good for a few seasons, and though we probably would have been better last year if healthy, I highly doubt we would have been as good as we have been this season. We could be better yet next season as well.

I just don't think we are there yet in regard to winning at title but it doesn't mean this is a bad season or a wasted one and it doesn't mean we can't get there.

[younggunsmn]

I think our strength, and our greatest improvements over the last 3 years, have come from our bench and depth/role players.

Naz emerging, adding Kyle, then NAW replacing Nowell/mcLaughlin minutes in the rotation and becoming an elite defender.

The bad roleplayer minutes have largely been eliminated.
Conley and Gobert are having some of the best years of their careers.

It's our stars that have to take the next step to get us to the next step.

[winforlose]

I most certainly did NOT make your point.

The Nugget were a team that won 4 Playoff series in 3 years - and at least one series in all 3 years. Then they had a down year because they lost their clear 2nd best player for the full season and playoffs.

That does not, in any way, compare to the Wolves who haven't won a Playoff series in 20 years and have only played in 3 total series since that time.

I love Rudy as much as anyone, but its absurd to compare him to LeBron or prime KG.

My point was about a regular season jump. When the Nuggets got healthy they went from 6th to 1st. When we got healthy we went from 8th to first. We haven’t had the playoffs yet so I couldn’t possibly be talking about the playoff results.

Rudy is an impact player. He is a walking top 10 defense, and he improved us in our areas of weakness, rim protection, defensive rebounding, and 2nd chance points. Obviously the development of Ant and Jaden along with Karl reaching his prime were all factors. But they were predictable factors. There is a reason that TC decided he could win now by acquiring Rudy. Dlo disappointed so spectacularly that it made the experiment look worse than it was. Mike and NAW were the excellent additions that really rounded us out. Naz was always this good, people just didn’t listen when we told them. Kyle is the weak link on this rotation, but hopefully Monte Morris will round back into form and Marcus Morris will be signed. Together I am hopeful that they will squeeze Kyle out of the rotation and dramatically improve our offense, (addition by subtraction.)

Go back and look at the boards after the trade before the
season. Myself, KG and others expected what is happening now to happen then, if we stayed healthy. We didn’t then, but we did now. Presto, competing for the #1 seed.

[BlacJacMac]

The Nuggets did not start where we started.

They were a team that made the WCF and then struggled the next year because their “KAT” missed the whole season. The next year they were right back where they had been.

We haven’t been a Too 4 seed in 30 years. They were one 3 straight years before a major injury derailed a single season.

Apples and oranges.

[winforlose]

The Nuggets did not start where we started.

They were a team that made the WCF and then struggled the next year because their “KAT” missed the whole season. The next year they were right back where they had been.

We haven’t been a Too 4 seed in 30 years. They were one 3 straight years before a major injury derailed a single season.

Apples and oranges.

The fact that you underestimate our players doesn’t change the fact that they are good at basketball. With Jimmy and Wiggins the Wolves were a top 4 team for a chunk of the 2017-2018 season until Jimmy got hurt. In 21-22 we had big leads over the Griz in most of the playoff games. We showed that KAT, Ant, and a good defense Wolves could be a true playoff threat. But our inexperience and youth doomed us. So we got more experienced. We brought in Rudy and then later Mike to elevate us. The other thing you don’t seem to want to account for is internal player development. Ant is a guy who gets better every year. Jaden is a guy who is good enough to be an NBA X factor, and is getting closer to being that more consistently every year. Naz is a natural PF and is developing into that more and more. Karl in his prime is much better than young Karl trying to figure out his game (especially on defense.)

You say that Rudy doesn’t have the same impact as Lebron. I say Rudy is the Lebron of defense. You say defense cannot transform a team, I say look at our current team and you see the proof. I called this last year, and I was not alone. That we took an extra year of getting healthy and chemistry building is a shame. But the fact that you didn’t see this coming is more about you not valuing or talent than our talent making some unparalleled and unprecedented leap.

[BlacJacMac]

Now you've moved the goalposts so far from your original point - while putting words in my mouth, that I can do nothing but concede.

Congrats on your "win".

[winforlose]

Now you've moved the goalposts so far from your original point - while putting words in my mouth, that I can do nothing but concede.

Congrats on your "win".

Calinks original post relevant portion

“ I don't think we need to get too down about this. We may not be a championship team right now but we have made a massive leap this season. No team goes from being mediocre to being a champion in one year. It's unheard of. The leap we have made already is damn near unheard of. It would have been realistic for us to be about where the Suns are right now, we are far better than that.”

That is the goal post. My point is we are a contender, and we are a #1 seed. In 21-22 Denver was the #6 seed and eliminated by GSW in the first round. When they got healthy they became a contender. When we got healthy we became a contender. Obviously I cannot say we are champion because the playoffs haven’t happened yet. I can predict we win it all, but that only can be proven out in the actual playoffs. Everything else I said was explaining the jump. We brought in a top 10 impact player, we had our young players develop, and our existing star entered his prime. I don’t see that as moving the goal post, I see that as explaining the jump.

To your point that Denver had been good before they got hurt, you are correct. They made their jump from missing the playoffs in 17-18, we beat them out in game 82. They went from 9th to 2nd in one year with 54 wins. They fell back down due to injury and we would have been a contender last year but for injury.

Where we disagree is that you think because Denver was good before Murray went down they are not comparable to us. I am saying that teams make leaps when they bring in talent. Gobert is the defensive LBJ. Also having young guys develop is how teams make jumps. I am saying in 22-23 we were contender level but for injury and it is showing when healthy in 23-24. You are saying because we were a play-in team in 21-22 you can ignore everything that happened in the offseason and after. You cannot, you should not, and frankly it is silly to ignore the impact of Gobert, Conley, NAW, and Anderson on the team since 21-22.

[Klomp]

Now you've moved the goalposts so far from your original point - while putting words in my mouth, that I can do nothing but concede.

Congrats on your "win".

Calinks original post relevant portion

“ I don't think we need to get too down about this. We may not be a championship team right now but we have made a massive leap this season. No team goes from being mediocre to being a champion in one year. It's unheard of. The leap we have made already is damn near unheard of. It would have been realistic for us to be about where the Suns are right now, we are far better than that.”

That is the goal post. My point is we are a contender, and we are a #1 seed. In 21-22 Denver was the #6 seed and eliminated by GSW in the first round. When they got healthy they became a contender. When we got healthy we became a contender. Obviously I cannot say we are champion because the playoffs haven’t happened yet. I can predict we win it all, but that only can be proven out in the actual playoffs. Everything else I said was explaining the jump. We brought in a top 10 impact player, we had our young players develop, and our existing star entered his prime. I don’t see that as moving the goal post, I see that as explaining the jump.

To your point that Denver had been good before they got hurt, you are correct. They made their jump from missing the playoffs in 17-18, we beat them out in game 82. They went from 9th to 2nd in one year with 54 wins. They fell back down due to injury and we would have been a contender last year but for injury.

Where we disagree is that you think because Denver was good before Murray went down they are not comparable to us. I am saying that teams make leaps when they bring in talent. Gobert is the defensive LBJ. Also having young guys develop is how teams make jumps. I am saying in 22-23 we were contender level but for injury and it is showing when healthy in 23-24. You are saying because we were a play-in team in 21-22 you can ignore everything that happened in the offseason and after. You cannot, you should not, and frankly it is silly to ignore the impact of Gobert, Conley, NAW, and Anderson on the team since 21-22.

All that doesn't mean that a championship should be the expectation. This season is far from championship or bust.

[winforlose]

Now you've moved the goalposts so far from your original point - while putting words in my mouth, that I can do nothing but concede.

Congrats on your "win".

Calinks original post relevant portion

“ I don't think we need to get too down about this. We may not be a championship team right now but we have made a massive leap this season. No team goes from being mediocre to being a champion in one year. It's unheard of. The leap we have made already is damn near unheard of. It would have been realistic for us to be about where the Suns are right now, we are far better than that.”

That is the goal post. My point is we are a contender, and we are a #1 seed. In 21-22 Denver was the #6 seed and eliminated by GSW in the first round. When they got healthy they became a contender. When we got healthy we became a contender. Obviously I cannot say we are champion because the playoffs haven’t happened yet. I can predict we win it all, but that only can be proven out in the actual playoffs. Everything else I said was explaining the jump. We brought in a top 10 impact player, we had our young players develop, and our existing star entered his prime. I don’t see that as moving the goal post, I see that as explaining the jump.

To your point that Denver had been good before they got hurt, you are correct. They made their jump from missing the playoffs in 17-18, we beat them out in game 82. They went from 9th to 2nd in one year with 54 wins. They fell back down due to injury and we would have been a contender last year but for injury.

Where we disagree is that you think because Denver was good before Murray went down they are not comparable to us. I am saying that teams make leaps when they bring in talent. Gobert is the defensive LBJ. Also having young guys develop is how teams make jumps. I am saying in 22-23 we were contender level but for injury and it is showing when healthy in 23-24. You are saying because we were a play-in team in 21-22 you can ignore everything that happened in the offseason and after. You cannot, you should not, and frankly it is silly to ignore the impact of Gobert, Conley, NAW, and Anderson on the team since 21-22.

All that doesn't mean that a championship should be the expectation. This season is far from championship or bust.

The luxury tax bill next year means we must be WCF or bust. That being true, we are too talented to not be NBA finals or bust. When healthy we should when a 7 game series against any team in the west. I truly believe this.