MIN/NO

4ho5ive · Post #1 » by **4ho5ive** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:21 pm

According to Wiretap, NO is looking to make a deal by the deadline to help bolster their bench. They want help to get Paul and West off the court to get a breather once in a while. How about this deal.

Minny sends: Marko Jaric, Ryan Gomes, Chris Richard
Minny gets: Hilton Armstrong, Rasul Butler, Jannero Pargo

Why for NO: They get a reserve PG/2G/SF in Marko, who isnt necessarily a fan-favorite but who does help them in their "win-now" situation. Gomes plays the 3 and 4 and can help their up-front scoring. And I hate to get rid of Richard so soon cuz i am very high on him, but he can help relieve both Tyson Chandler and D. West

Why for MIN: We further our youth movement by adding the 5 prospect we so dearly want/need. We add a young/vet PG in Pargo who is a FA after this year anyway and Butler is a solid SF that can provide some vet presence and give some pointers to Brew since they have somewhat the same frame.

Butler and Pargo are getting very few minutes and both have seen their share of DNP-CD's this season. Getting rid of Jaric's contract helps for the future.

If we have to throw in a 2nd or take out Richard and throw in MIA 1st. Thoughts???

JBoog35 · Post #2 » by **JBoog35** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:35 pm

haha, you and I must've been thinking the same thing at the same time.

4ho5ive · Post #3 » by **4ho5ive** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:44 pm

Lol, yea something like "I sure am tired of being shi++y"

JBoog35 · Post #4 » by **JBoog35** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 11:42 pm

4ho5ive wrote:Lol, yea something like "I sure am tired of being shi++y"

haha, touche. Yeah, it's getting to the point where I just want to see something, anything. A trade would be just as entertaining as a win. I do see NO as a good trade target, maybe orlando.

dunkonu21 · Post #5 » by **dunkonu21** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 12:26 am

Gomes is not going to be traded

deeney0 · Post #6 » by **deeney0** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 1:36 am

Why do you say that? I could see lots of ways Gomes could get traded.

wolves_fan_82au · Post #7 » by **wolves_fan_82au** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:19 am

couldnt we just trade gomes/Filler for Hilton Armstrong/lottery protected 1st??????

if we trade a guy like Gomes we still need too find another decent 1st round pick maybe from 16-25 so we could get another centre

4ho5ive · Post #8 » by **4ho5ive** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:35 am

wolves_fan_82au wrote:couldnt we just trade gomes/Filler for Hilton Armstrong/lottery protected 1st??????

if we trade a guy like Gomes we still need too find another decent 1st round pick maybe from 16-25 so we could get another centre

I dont think Gomes is so valuable to teams that he will bring in a C prospect and a lottery protected 1st by himself. I think both teams improve with the trade I posted.

What filler can we provide? and i think they are looking for guard help and big man help, thats where Gator-aide comes in.

shrink · Post #9 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 3:10 pm

There aren't a lot of posters from New Orleans here, but some of them have expressed interest in Marko Jaric. He'd give them tremendous bench flexibility, and they could play him alongside Chris Paul and Jannero Pargo.

Gomes would be a nice fit on their roster, with his ability to rebound and score inside and outside. He's probably the most developed of our young tradables, having started about 110 games in his young career.

As far as Armstrong goes, I was surprised to see that even with David West out, Hilton only got ten minutes against an exhausting team like Phoenix. I don't think he's off the table. Same goes for Julian Wright, the 13th pick in the draft last season (and he's only 20).

Overall, we're probably a decent trading partner for the Hornets. They have started so well, that they can use production now, and their tradable assets are future prospects that don't produce too much right now. As one of the few teams that have little concern for production now, its easier for us to trade productive players and not feel any sting to it.

Post #10 » by **Basti** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 4:01 pm

4ho5ive wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I dont think Gomes is so valuable to teams that he will bring in a C prospect and a lottery protected 1st by himself. I think both teams improve with the trade I posted.

What filler can we provide? and i think they are looking for guard help and big man help, thats where Gator-aide comes in.

any chance they take madsen? he's a vet and a team first guy that every team could need. on the other hand he's only a throw in actually because he's not that talented.

I don'T want to give up richard yet because if he played bigger minutes he was quite useful.

wolves_fan_82au · Post #11 » by **wolves_fan_82au** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:01 pm

4ho5ive wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I dont think Gomes is so valuable to teams that he will bring in a C prospect and a lottery protected 1st by himself. I think both teams improve with the trade I posted.

What filler can we provide? and i think they are looking for guard help and big man help, thats where Gator-aide comes in.

why would u give up on richard so quickly why not give him a chance he will probley end up better than hilton armstrong anyways

i would say the fillers would be madsen and maybe telfair with butler maybe comming back to us

theGreatRC · Post #12 » by **theGreatRC** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:56 pm

I'd do that deal so hard, but why trade Richie Rich? He is a good back up C; very aggressive in the paint and has a good rebounding technique.

4ho5ive · Post #13 » by **4ho5ive** » Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:12 pm

I dont know that Richard will end up being better than Armstrong, I havent seen enough from either player to say so but Armstrong has the size to be a "true" Center prospect. A lottery pick vs. a 2nd rounder really. Im sure Richard wont ever be much better than a back-up 5, which isnt a bad thing, but Armstrong has starter potential IMO

As i said in my first post, I dont really want to give up Richard yet, but oyu have to give up something. I dont see NO being interested in Madsen and if Telfair is a throw in, than in your deal, we are banking on Jaric coming back to the starting 5 with no back up PG.

Gomes, Telfair and Madsen for Butler, Armstrong and a lotto protected 1st is your proposed deal. Leaves us with

Jaric/????
McCants/Green
Brew/Butler
Jefferson/Smith
Armstrong/Doleac?

wolves_fan_82au · Post #14 » by **wolves_fan_82au** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:36 am

4ho5ive wrote:I dont know that Richard will end up being better than Armstrong, I havent seen enough from either player to say so but Armstrong has the size to be a "true" Center prospect. A lottery pick vs. a 2nd rounder really. Im sure Richard wont ever be much better than a back-up 5, which isnt a bad thing, but Armstrong has starter potential IMO

As i said in my first post, I dont really want to give up Richard yet, but oyu have to give up something. I dont see NO being interested in Madsen and if Telfair is a throw in, than in your deal, we are banking on Jaric coming back to the starting 5 with no back up PG.

Gomes, Telfair and Madsen for Butler, Armstrong and a lotto protected 1st is your proposed deal. Leaves us with

Jaric/????
McCants/Green
Brew/Butler
Jefferson/Smith
Armstrong/Doleac?

isnt foye comming back soon?

4ho5ive · Post #15 » by **4ho5ive** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:54 am

wolves_fan_82au wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

isnt foye comming back soon?

we can only hope so. he is going to get an eval. tomorrow. last 2 times looked positive and that was more than a month ago. say he does get cleared, he wont play for AT LEAST another week. minimum. now there may be down time btwn this trade and the time Foye gets back, but he wont be playing 100% for a month or so, I dont want to take the chance of having Jaric as our only PG option for any extended amount of time.

MN Die Hard · Post #16 » by **MN Die Hard** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:08 pm

shrink wrote:As far as Armstrong goes, I was surprised to see that even with David West out, Hilton only got ten minutes against an exhausting team like Phoenix. I don't think he's off the table. Same goes for Julian Wright, the 13th pick in the draft last season (and he's only 20).

I would LOVE to get Julilan Wright here; I thought he had a lot of potential as a "do-everything" type player coming out of Kansas last year.

How about something like this. MN is giving up lots of production, so if its even possible, this year's team might even get worse. But we're dumping Jaric's long term deal. Over the long term, the money is actually pretty similar, but instead of paying Marko in 2009 and 2010, we're spending similar money to get a look at youngsters Wright and Armstrong.

Gomes, Smith, Jaric, Walker

for

Armstrong, Wright, Jackson, Butler

NO immediatly adds four guys who will contribute in exchange for two guys allegedly in the doghouse (Jax and Butler) and two guys contributing little to nothing (Armstrong and Wright).

MN takes another (painful) step toward rebuilding.

Post #17 » by **C.lupus** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 4:20 pm

^ I'd do that one. I was high on Wright in last year's draft. We get 2 young prospects without giving up any of our core. I really like Gomes and Smith but we aren't close enough to winning to be concerned with keeping role players.

shrink · Post #18 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 5:25 pm

Julian Wright has been in and out of the doghouse too.

Right now, I think Marko = BJax .. Marko the more productive, Jackson the 2-year contract. I'm not sure I'd do the deal straight up, but I think the value is close, and their are benefits to both receiving teams.

Rasual Butler has a three year deal averaging $3.6 mil, which seems reasonable for his potential production. I figure we'd want to move him along later. Walker could actually be helpful in NO. Right now, Melvin Ely is their PF back-up, and the hornets are last in the league in bench scoring. Personally, I'm starting to raise Walker's (negative) trade value. We've already paid him 40% of a season, and in five months he's going to be a positive-valued $9 mil expiring contract. I'm not sure what date I'll call him a wash.

Wright and Armstrong are locked into cheap contracts, so while I'd prefer to keep at least one (maybe both) of Gomes and Craig Smith, I think I'd do the deal. It's close for me.

shrink · Post #19 » by **shrink** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 5:26 pm

BTW, Change in Team Outlook: +22.1 ppg, +7.1 rpg, and +3.5 apg.

MN Die Hard · Post #20 » by **MN Die Hard** » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:23 pm

shrink wrote:BTW, Change in Team Outlook: +22.1 ppg, +7.1 rpg, and +3.5 apg.

Yep, so even though I see this as a positive step in the long-term rebuilding process (dumping Jaric, getting two guys on longer-term rookie contracts), I do acknowledge this is quite a painful step for the short term. The Wolves would be losing four guys who are contributing now, and getting back question marks. Definitely will not help us win games this year.

But I go back to the fact that they are contributing to a four-win team, so unless we're certain they are part of the future (and two of the four obviously are not), I say roll the dice.

I'd say Armstrong and Wright are at least as good of prospects as Smith and Gomes, respectively. And the other four guys result in cost savings to the Wolves.