Timberwolves Workout Response: Point Guards

[john2jer]

Unfortunately some people can't just judge Foye alone, even if only subconciously, they think of Roy when considering how good Foye is and what we should do with him.

[collin_k41]

That's not fair to Foye j2j. Come on people look at him for who he IS, not what he was(roy). He's had enough unfairness..I mean come on, imagine what opposite day was like for this guy...he lives it, every day of his life...

[Krapinsky]

But do we want to sign Foye for $5/$6 million per year when he becomes a free agent? Or would we rather use the cap money for a bigger star free agent? If it's the latter, then we might as well trade him for something worthwhile

[AQuintus]

Here are a few more takes on the workouts that I've found.

Ok. I had to leave early. Here’s who was there:
Evans (surprise), Flynn, Jennings, Holiday, Lawson and Teague.
I’ve gotta run so I’ll make this short and check in later…. I had to leave before they finshed but here’s what stood out:

Evans: man among boys by his size. Quick for his size. Decent shooter. Seemed to lead also.
Flynn: incredible hops. Guy jumps out of the gym and was the best ball handler. Didn’t finish well in individual and 1 on 1 workouts.
Jennings: fast but lost handle quite a few times. Really got down on himself after missing shots. Hung on rim a few times and showboated in front of the coaches.
Lawson: Decent. Non descript but he had some speed and was a decent shooter.
Teague: See Lawson.
Holiday: Very smooth. Didn’t have the burst of speed that others had..but decent shooter.

I came away thinking Flynn is a leader but Evans was really good. I’d be happy with either of thoese. Defensively Evans was really decent. Flynn stayed with his man very well and is just an insane ball handler.
Jennings got better as the session went on but overall seemed immature. Lawson and Teague just didnt do anything to stand out.

Gotta run.
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http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-4 ... rkout.html

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/wol ... d-workout/

http://www.kfan.com/pages/psn_powertrip.html (Video)

A few things from these ones are that A) Evans was pretty much unanimously the most impressive guy there. B) Jennings looked immature and erratic to begin, but after the 3-on-3s started, he looked very good. C) Holiday didn't appear to want to be there.

A few more thoughts from me:

By all accounts Evans looked like dominant driving to the rim in these workouts, but the more I think about it, the more I'm not surprised that he can dominate 5'11 Flynn and 170 lb Jennings. In the NBA (and more specifically, with the Wolves), however, he'll more than likely be playing next to a smaller shooting guard (Foye or Curry are the names thrown around for the Wolves). If this is the case, the opposing team's Point will guard Foye or Curry and their Shooting Guard will defend Evans, and while Evans certainly looks great going against small guards, I doubt he'd look as good going against a Kobe Bryant or a Shane Battier. Also, after watching the video, he has the ugliest jump shot I've ever seen.

The other thing I've been thinking after watching and reading about this is that while I definitely wouldn't take Jennings with the 6th pick, moving up with the 18 (or using Foye) would be an excellent risk/reward type move. His jumper looked pretty good in the video, too.

[Dewey]

Why the infatuation with Harden? He's got a smooth shot, but he's really pretty mediocre in most other ways...

Evans was going against smaller guys, but his ball handling did not suffer. He did exactly what he was suppose to do. His shot is average, but his ability to create and get to the basket appears exceptional. My only real question is his ability to set up team mates.

Flynn will be in the top 8, but I can see Holiday and Jennings fall.

[Devilzsidewalk]

if he was as dominant against Battier or Kobe he'd be head and shoulders above every player in the NBA

isn't it kind of unfair to discount Evans because the jump shot that always goes in isn't pretty enough and his dominance isn't acceptable because the competition is too small? The team brought him in for the PG workout, he didn't break in

[4ho5ive]

if he was as dominant against Battier or Kobe he'd be head and shoulders above every player in the NBA

isn't it kind of unfair to discount Evans because the jump shot that always goes in isn't pretty enough and his dominance isn't acceptable because the competition is too small? The team brought him in for the PG workout, he didn't break in

[jpatrick]

It's not his fault that the PGs in the workout are smaller as long as we realize he'll be defended by players his own size in real games. It's now how dominate he looked in the workout, it's projecting whether he can be as dominant in real games being guarded by SGs.

And his jumper? He shot 27% from three last season, the college three. His release is slow, awkward, and ugly. When he has unlimited time in a solo workout or when he only has to shoot over players 6', he apparently looks ok. Until that jumper goes down in real games, to me it'll be his biggest question mark (I just don't think he's a PG). And even if he's at the pt, don't we all hate when the ball gets rotated to Telfair and he either can't hit the wide open three (when its not falling which is most nights) or he is too scared to shoot it so he bypasses the wide open shot to drive into a pack of defenders. Evans is not as good of a shooter as Telfair I think.

The reports from this workout have made me "ok" with picking Evans, but I still take Curry in front of him (I'd love me some Curry/Evans in the backcourt together). I do note, I could be 100% wrong about him. I'd love if we took him and he was the next Wade, I just see more Hughes than Wade and I was in St. Louis, during Hughes' one season at SLU. That one season, he was an absolute stud, great handle, could get into the paint at will, but never could be a consistent player in the NBA w/o the jumper.

[AQuintus]

if he was as dominant against Battier or Kobe he'd be head and shoulders above every player in the NBA

Not just Battier or Kobe, but Roy or Joe Johnson or Vince Carter or Jason Richardson. Basically, I have trouble seeing him dominating any NBA guard that he isn't 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier than.

isn't it kind of unfair to discount Evans because the jump shot that always goes in isn't pretty enough

His jump shot doesn't always go in, though, and that's the problem. I don't doubt that he'll be able to hit open shots in the NBA. He'll probably hit his fair share of contested shots, too. I do doubt, however, that he'll be able to do either consistently unless he fixes his form.

and his dominance isn't acceptable because the competition is too small?

I never said that his dominance wasn't acceptable. What I did say was that his dominance in this setting probably isn't a good way to predict NBA success because, like I said, he'll almost definitely be defended by players who aren't completely physically over matched.

The team brought him in for the PG workout, he didn't break in

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that he was brought into the PG workout because he asked to be brought in. A very smart move on his (or his agent's) part because obviously he looked great in this setting and against this competition.

With all that said, I'm much, much more inclined towards drafting him at 6 now than I was before the workout.

[Mayoistooslow]

So if we do draft Evans with the idea that he'll play PG since he's ball dominant...and the other team tries to put a SG on him to defend him (for the size) - hopefully by that time Kahn will have made the trade he's been talking about for a SG to replace foye - the wing player he wants. That way, if their tiny pg can't handle our big horse (evans) there will be no bailing him out by sticking their sg on him, because they will need to keep him on our wing player. That's the way I see it working out at least.

[Cyborg21]

I would still rather have Curry. We need scoring badly and he can pass the ball and is a great shooter and can score at will. And he just happens to be a point guard which is what we need...

[big3_8_19_21]

Anyone know who worked out this afternoon?

Kahn said in his interview on the PG workout that we had people working out this afternoon as well...

[Rapture]

I'm sure this comparison has gotten old, and I'm not saying he's at this talent level yet, or ever will, but his game seems very similar to Dwayne Wade. Ball controlling guard who gets to the basket and free throw line, with the ability to hit open cutters and shooters. Plus the defense and LONG wingspan is similar. Tyreke just has to add in the mid-range game, which I think he has in him.

Actually I have not seen this comparison made much at all (Haven't been following this board). I followed Tyreke most of the season but as he was ranked so low I was hesitant to use this comparison. I really didn't understand why people ranked him so low during the season.

Like you said he has a lot of similarities to Wade, especially his body and ball handling skills. I would say that Wade was a more explosive athlete and he had better court vision. I'm not sure about shooting, I think that Wade didn't have much range but his midrange J way quite good. Tyreke has range but he's jumper isn't really consistant from anywhere yet.

IMO Tyreke should not play PG. If he becomes as good as I think he will, he should be used at SG like Wade is. He'll never be the player that Wade is but I could see him playing like Wade but not a 1st option type of guy just as a 2nd/3rd banana with atleast some All-Star appearances.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Kahn should do the simple thing and draft Evans.

Evans's shooting or lack of it will be fine, as long as he plays with shooters. The fact is, Evans is an offensive nightmare for most NBA teams in the league at 6'5, long arms. He has a Thaddeus Young-ish body.

Imagine this lineup:

Jefferson-Love-Miller-Foye-Evans

Foye and Miller are solid 3 pt shooters. You got Love and Jefferson together in the post. That's ONE hell of a lineup.

You want to build the best TEAM possible. And Evans gives you the ability to put such an athletic, versatile in-out lineup on the floor. You can develop Evans as a PG, while you prepare to make your 2009-2010 FA Splash.

One thing: Stephen Curry is NOT an NBA PG. I don't care if it's Davidson, he averaged 3.0 TPG and barely got an positive AST-T.O Ratio. That's NOT what your looking for in a Point Guard. More power to Walsh and D'Antoni if they want to draft a turnover prone, poor handles PG to be a PG.

Stephen Curry is the type of guy that excels playing next to another ball handler, and playing off the basketball. A Steve Kerr type. In particular, Curry-Iguodala would be one sexy back-court.

I like Jeff Teagues. He has the potential to be an AMAZING PG He's already played in a high-tempo offense. But his wingspan is 6'7 and with his speed, he can shut down NBA 1's and guard NBA 2's at the next level.

I hope the Sixers take Teagues, Maynor, Jennings in that order. I want NOTHING to do with Lawson. Who's lack of shooting and size is JUST what we need

[C.lupus]

The only thing that concerns me with Evans' shot is that he shoots from a low position and doesn't jump very high when shooting. I think he may get blocked fairly easily in the NBA with that. I really don't care how ugly it is as long as it goes in.


As for trading Foye - I don't think he is high on Kahn's favorite list but at the same time Kahn did say he likes to buy low and sell high. Selling Foye right now would not be selling high by any stretch.

[Dewey]

Kahn may not like Foye, but if that's the case. he must really dislike Telfair. Foye is a wildcard and Kahn may very well be looking to jack him up for the upcoming season since it kind of a make or break year for him IMO. I think trading Foye will need to result in a significant Cap move or draft position.

Foye shooting is getting better each season ... I still see him as one of those Billups tweener who need a few years to develop into a position. Billups was always a better shooter, but a much worse defender than Foye (not saying much). Billups finally raised his level of play all the way around ... maybe it was the fact we was traded once or twice. Maybe Foye needs a new look. Nonetheless, Foye will be fine. I'm not a big fan of his intensity (nor Gomes), but drafting Evans or Rubio could be the motivation he needs. Telfair is done here.

I remain firm ... The Rube is my first option. Evans is second. The player I can't get a good feel for is Curry. I'd have to believe one of the other true PG's like Flynn, Jennings, etc... will suprise us all and flourish.

[El_Lobo_3]

The only thing that concerns me with Evans' shot is that he shoots from a low position and doesn't jump very high when shooting. I think he may get blocked fairly easily in the NBA with that. I really don't care how ugly it is as long as it goes in.
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That was my concern also...after seeing the workout, however, you can really see the difference in his pull up jumper and his 3 pt shot. In the one on ones and 3-on-3s, he would blow by ppl so fast and stop on a dime to pull up for a jumper, or give them a jab, one step the other way and then pull up...in those situations, he definitely got off the ground a lot more than we see in the wolves workout vid where he is shooting threes only. He had so much separation when pulling up, but when it came to three pointers, he was barely jumping off the ground.

But he is a big, strong guy, there is no doubt that he will come to develop and groom that shot into a more effective style.

[Esohny]

Why the infatuation with Harden? He's got a smooth shot, but he's really pretty mediocre in most other ways...

Evans was going against smaller guys, but his ball handling did not suffer. He did exactly what he was suppose to do. His shot is average, but his ability to create and get to the basket appears exceptional. My only real question is his ability to set up team mates.

Flynn will be in the top 8, but I can see Holiday and Jennings fall.

Really disagree on Harden. He's got a good handle, can get to the basket very effectively, good size with impressive wingspan, good defender, good passer, besides his nice shot. Honestly, I think the Roy comparisons are fair, not that I think he's a lock to get to his level.

[big3_8_19_21]

One thing: Stephen Curry is NOT an NBA PG. I don't care if it's Davidson, he averaged 3.0 TPG and barely got an positive AST-T.O Ratio. That's NOT what your looking for in a Point Guard. More power to Walsh and D'Antoni if they want to draft a turnover prone, poor handles PG to be a PG.

Curry averaged 3.7 TO per game, while Evans averaged 3.6. Curry's A/T ratio was 1.50 while Evans' was 1.08. Just saying...

[GopherIt!]

Overall I rate the prospects from today in this order:

1. Evans (BY FAR)
2. Flynn
3. Lawson
4. Holiday
5. Tie: Jennings and Teague

I would be careful not to judge Jrue Holiday too much off of one appearance.
There is no way I'd take a guy like Lawson or Flynn over him. Whatever a team
gains offensively they will lose double on defense. Outside of possibly Evans,
Holiday is still ahead of all of those guys in my book.