Timberwolves Workout Response: Point Guards

[john2jer]

Considering how many issues we have on the perimeter concerning size, length, and defense, in my opinion Holiday has to be considered over Flynn, Lawson, and Jennings.

But I think he was ranking them based off of how they played that day, not overall.

1. Evans
2. Holiday
3. Yuck

[C.lupus]

The only thing that concerns me with Evans' shot is that he shoots from a low position and doesn't jump very high when shooting. I think he may get blocked fairly easily in the NBA with that. I really don't care how ugly it is as long as it goes in.
.

That was my concern also...after seeing the workout, however, you can really see the difference in his pull up jumper and his 3 pt shot. In the one on ones and 3-on-3s, he would blow by ppl so fast and stop on a dime to pull up for a jumper, or give them a jab, one step the other way and then pull up...in those situations, he definitely got off the ground a lot more than we see in the wolves workout vid where he is shooting threes only. He had so much separation when pulling up, but when it came to three pointers, he was barely jumping off the ground.

But he is a big, strong guy, there is no doubt that he will come to develop and groom that shot into a more effective style.

Glad to hear that. Thanks.

I'm really starting to get sold on the guy.

[El_Lobo_3]

I would be careful not to judge Jrue Holiday too much off of one appearance.
There is no way I'd take a guy like Lawson or Flynn over him. Whatever a team
gains offensively they will lose double on defense. Outside of possibly Evans,
Holiday is still ahead of all of those guys in my book.

No I completely agree. These ratings were strictly on their performances that day, nothing more. I would never take lawson over him, Flyyn I would though. He was very impressive.

[El_Lobo_3]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... t_workout/

Did you guys see this RealGM article? Pretty impressive how he just wanted to prove himself even though he really didn't need to. The last paragraph on how he did this day is on the money. I like his confidence. Borderline cocky, but when it's true I say he is just one very confident individual, which is very much what we need along with the talent and physicality he brings to the table.

I am really starting to think he won't even make it to us

[collin_k41]

I read an espn article(to lazy to go find it again) that said Flynn should be like 6'4". When he was an eighth grader he got shoved when he drove to the basket and busted his ankle. Along with that ankle was his growth plate. He didn't grow any more after that. He's the shortest in his family..and has size 14 shoes. Just imagine if Flynn was 6'4" with the same skills. He'd be a top 2 pick in my estimation. It's a shame really but what can you do. I hope he can succeed in the nba though even as a pretty short dude.

[a8bil]

GSW fan here...Great initial report, a total scoop on the press. Unfortunately, it makes general knowledge of what I hoped would remain a mystery. That is, Evans is by far a better player than the other PG's in this draft (save perhaps Rubio).

Funny, even with this information you have naysayers on this board nitpicking him...he has an ugly shot (worse than Jason Kidd or Tim Hardaway?), he'll be guarded by SGs in the NBA (so then your SG will be defended by a PG--still a match up problem), etc. You have first hand proof he can dominate other point guards and he led Memphis to the top of the NCAA and an amazing season...not enough evidence for the closet GM;s out there.

So, I suggest you keep focusing on his slow release and keep speculating about how he won't look so dominant against Kobe or Battier and let him drop to #7. GSW fans will be all the happier.

[Pumaman]

I think Holiday is being overlooked on here. I think he would be a great pick for us at 6 if he is still there, rather than Flynn or Curry, not quite sure if I'd take him over Evans though, still debating that one. I just think he fits here better, he's a PG with a little SG in him (which is the opposite of Foye, so I think they would be good compliments) - remember when Pat Riley was trying to pry Foye away from us, he wanted two combo guards in the backcourt - we could do that with Holiday or Evans. Holiday's a much better shooter then Evans, Flynn, Jennings - not as good as Curry obviously, but I'd say about equal to Lawson. The biggest difference is he's a better defender than any of them, Flynn is the only one who comes close, and he doesn't have the size to put in a backcourt with Foye. I think that Holiday has the smallest chance to be a flop, as he doesn't really have any glaring weaknesses - he can shoot, defend, finish at the rim, handle the ball effectively, etc. Every other guy we are debating here is deficient in at least one of those areas. If I'm picking for a guy to go with our current roster, I go with Holiday - if our backcourt is going to be completely reassembled (as it looks like Kahn may be trying to do), then it really depends, I like all of these guys and they all could be very good given the right situation. I also think Lawson is quite a bit underrated, he should be up there with Flynn.

[AQuintus]

he'll be guarded by SGs in the NBA (so then your SG will be defended by a PG--still a match up problem)

You do realize that the Golden State situation is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned this, right?

Say that GS drafted Tyreke and were playing against the Denver Nuggets. In this situation, Chauncey Billups would be on Monte Ellis and Dahntay Jones or JR Smith would be on Evans.

Do you really think that ,in this hypothetical situation, Tyreke Evans would be able to physically dominate Jones and Smith (2 guys who are at least as tall and heavy as Evans) in the same way that he did Flynn and Jennings?

[a8bil]

Why you worrying about GSW and their matchup issues? You are right that if Evans is guarded by others SG, he won't have the size advantage that he had against the PG's in the pre-draft work out, but for most teams in the league that will create mismatch issues with the other team's point guard switching and trying to guard SG's. You pick one team where it may not hold true, but at least having Evans levels the playing field because he's such a big guard. A team like GSW needs someone like Evans.

For the TW's if other teams covered Evans with their SG, Foye would be able to post up pretty much every PG in the league.

BTW, I still think Evans will have significant success at either position. He has a very interesting set of skills. It would be interesting to hear more from the original poster about how Evans' quickness matched against the other PGs. If he excelled in quickness too in this group, it could be real interesting.

[Devilzsidewalk]

GSW fan here...Great initial report, a total scoop on the press. Unfortunately, it makes general knowledge of what I hoped would remain a mystery. That is, Evans is by far a better player than the other PG's in this draft (save perhaps Rubio).

Funny, even with this information you have naysayers on this board nitpicking him...he has an ugly shot (worse than Jason Kidd or Tim Hardaway?), he'll be guarded by SGs in the NBA (so then your SG will be defended by a PG--still a match up problem), etc. You have first hand proof he can dominate other point guards and he led Memphis to the top of the NCAA and an amazing season...not enough evidence for the closet GM;s out there.

So, I suggest you keep focusing on his slow release and keep speculating about how he won't look so dominant against Kobe or Battier and let him drop to #7. GSW fans will be all the happier.

You are correct sir. He had a great freshman season and he's doing well in his workouts too, if none of that matters then why even bother, we should throw away all game tape and workouts and just have measurements and focus on minute details of people's game. Then we'll draft based on proper elbow angles and waist bend.

Its a hard fight, luckily I recognized Aquintus early as an enemy infiltrator attempting to bring down the organization from the inside, so I'm watching him like a hawk. J2j is a little more sneaky, but I think i've recognized his operation too. He's talking up Evans now to try and deflect attention, but at the last second he's gonna go full bore into Jrue Holiday mode. Tried to slip one by me didn't you? NO DICE

[Worm Guts]

Really disagree on Harden. He's got a good handle, can get to the basket very effectively,.

He's got issues going right and when teams didn't want him to get to the basket, he couldn't get to the basket. He can't play point like Roy and he doesn't have Roy's midrange game.

[Esohny]

Like I said, he's not a lock to get to Roy's level. But Roy-lite would be better than anything in this draft besides Griffin and maybe Rubio.

[Zeitgeister]

Unfortunately some people can't just judge Foye alone, even if only subconciously, they think of Roy when considering how good Foye is and what we should do with him.

What is Foye? Foye is most likely a pretty good sixth man off of the bench of a playoff team. He has a small chance at being a 3rd option but that is unlikely. He's undersized, his defense is bad, but he's a streaky scorer. Good for the bench. That doesn't mean I want to give him away for peanuts though. We have to keep in mind that we'll have to resign him soon, and he may very well want a big contract.

[Krapinsky]

Considering how many issues we have on the perimeter concerning size, length, and defense, in my opinion Holiday has to be considered over Flynn, Lawson, and Jennings.

But I think he was ranking them based off of how they played that day, not overall.

1. Evans
2. Holiday
3. Yuck

Flynn should be a more than capable defender. He's a better leader, a better dribbler, and better at running the point than Holiday. I think Flynn is the best "point" after Rubio. I still take Evans over Flynn, but Evans becomes a ball dominating 2 -- a la Wade for our team.

A good question is, assuming we got Evans, who is the point you'd want to put next to him? (i.e. Wizards dream trade scenario) In that case, you could make a strong case for Holiday over Flynn, but I'd give the nudge to Curry there.

[Devilzsidewalk]

.

A good question is, assuming we got Evans, who is the point you'd want to put next to him? (i.e. Wizards dream trade scenario) In that case, you could make a strong case for Holiday over Flynn, but I'd give the nudge to Curry there.

Lawson or Flynn for sure, Holiday and Curry are SGs. You'd be starting 2 play making SGs with Holiday or Curry and Evans, but 2 playmaking SGs doesn't = 1 PG. Flynn and Evans seems like the dream scenario, Lawson/Evans isn't far behind. I can for sure roll with Curry/Evans, but I think that takes too many touches away from the post. Curry's value has always been as a volume scorer, that's not really what I want from my PG. Evans/Flynn/Lawson will all give you athleticism and defense along with playmaking.

[Krapinsky]

.

A good question is, assuming we got Evans, who is the point you'd want to put next to him? (i.e. Wizards dream trade scenario) In that case, you could make a strong case for Holiday over Flynn, but I'd give the nudge to Curry there.

Lawson or Flynn for sure, Holiday and Curry are SGs. You'd be starting 2 play making SGs with Holiday or Curry and Evans, but 2 playmaking SGs doesn't = 1 PG. Flynn and Evans seems like the dream scenario, Lawson/Evans isn't far behind. I can for sure roll with Curry/Evans, but I think that takes too many touches away from the post. Curry's value has always been as a volume scorer, that's not really what I want from my PG. Evans/Flynn/Lawson will all give you athleticism and defense along with playmaking.

I don't know about that. My thinking is that for Evans to be effective he needs the balls in his hands to break down people off the dribble. I think if you take the ball out of Flynn and Lawson's hands they become much less effective.

[Devilzsidewalk]

.

A good question is, assuming we got Evans, who is the point you'd want to put next to him? (i.e. Wizards dream trade scenario) In that case, you could make a strong case for Holiday over Flynn, but I'd give the nudge to Curry there.

Lawson or Flynn for sure, Holiday and Curry are SGs. You'd be starting 2 play making SGs with Holiday or Curry and Evans, but 2 playmaking SGs doesn't = 1 PG. Flynn and Evans seems like the dream scenario, Lawson/Evans isn't far behind. I can for sure roll with Curry/Evans, but I think that takes too many touches away from the post. Curry's value has always been as a volume scorer, that's not really what I want from my PG. Evans/Flynn/Lawson will all give you athleticism and defense along with playmaking.

I don't know about that. My thinking is that for Evans to be effective he needs the balls in his hands to break down people off the dribble. I think if you take the ball out of Flynn and Lawson's hands they become much less effective.

working hard to ignore the 'balls in his hands' part, I think Holiday and Curry are the ones that most need the ball in their hands to be effective as Holiday has shown he's nightmarishly ineffective without the ball, and Curry has shown his team sucks when he's not knocking down shots en masse. Evans, Lawson and Flynn though will still give you pressure defense and will push the ball even when they're not controlling every possession. Flynn and Lawson particularly can control the ball without looking for their shot first and foremost, they're true PGs through and through, we've never really had anybody like either of them on the team, true PGs that are super fast and play defense.

[Krapinsky]

I don't know about that. My thinking is that for Evans to be effective he needs the balls in his hands to break down people off the dribble. I think if you take his balls out of Flynn and Lawson's hands they become much less effective.

*Fixed

[Zeitgeister]

working hard to ignore the 'balls in his hands' part, I think Holiday and Curry are the ones that most need the ball in their hands to be effective as Holiday has shown he's nightmarishly ineffective without the ball, and Curry has shown his team sucks when he's not knocking down shots en masse. Evans, Lawson and Flynn though will still give you pressure defense and will push the ball even when they're not controlling every possession. Flynn and Lawson particularly can control the ball without looking for their shot first and foremost, they're true PGs through and through, we've never really had anybody like either of them on the team, true PGs that are super fast and play defense.

Holiday has shown to be nightmarishly ineffective without the ball in his hands? In what way, scoring? It's hard to score when you don't ever have the ball in his hands but everything else he's done has shown that he can be effective. Besides, he should have the ball in his hands as a point guard. He's a better playmaker than Evans.

[B Calrissian]

I don't know about that. My thinking is that for Evans to be effective he needs the balls in his hands to break down people off the dribble. I think if you take his balls out of Flynn and Lawson's hands they become much less effective.

*Fixed

It's all in the eye of ballholder.