Could we trade Flynn to Portland?

[tviper]

Trading for Oden would be a huge mistake...it should be clear now to everyone that he is a huge bust (for the expectations that were on him and in view of Durant)...the trade is in 2010 with the Lakers for Bynum...

[casey]

A huge bust? He just finished his rookie year.

[Tekkenlaw]

Ish, wolves start he blazers rebuild by giving them Roy, then complete their rebuild by trading them Flynn?

[big3_8_19_21]

yeah, it's a bit early to be calling Oden a bust...

also, if there's a trade that's mutually beneficial with any team, you have to pull the trigger. Portland or not.

[TheRipCityGuru]

I think Oden is already just as good as Bynum....Oden played 22 MPG and Bynum 29 MPG

2008-09 Season Comparison
Player Team G MIN PPG FG FGP FT FTP FG3 FG3P RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF
A. Bynum LAL 50 1444 14.3 281 .560 152 .707 0 .000 8.0 1.4 0.4 1.8 85 157
Greg Oden POR 61 1312 8.9 198 .564 144 .637 0 .000 7.0 0.5 0.4 1.1 87 238

[call.me.dude]

Why does a player who is solid on offense and a big liability on defense merit a star player or great prospect? The only reason that I'd want Rudy more than any number of other SGs would be to make Rubio more comfortable, and I'd want something else with him.

I said "as a part of a deal" only a few lines later. Rudy for Rubio or star player is obviously not gonna happen but I never said that.

To your second statement: Rudy has been a 10+ ppg scorer in his rookie season playing behind Brandon Roy and playing only 26 mpg and being utilized almost exclusively as a spot-up shooter. The system (i.e. the role that Nate gave him) didn't allow him to play as good as he can and show everything he can do. And still he scored the ball extremely well and showed good passing ability. He's clutch, has a high BB IQ, is a team player, is constantly moving and gives 100 % effort. Not sure how you can not see his potential. I'm not saying he will be the next Ginobili (and I don't think he will be), but I think of him as a 17/3.5/3.5 guy off the bench (for our team maybe 15-16/3.5/3.5) in 30-32 mpg that changes games with his energy and 3pt shooting. Basically Ginobili with not as much driving ability (that's why he won't be as good) but maybe better shooting.

[Esohny]

It's not like he's a normal "rookie." The guy had previous experience. I don't hate the guy, but we just traded a decent offensive SG with no D, his name was Randy Foye. What else do we get with Rudy for the 2nd best prospect in the draft?

[call.me.dude]

What else do we get with Rudy for the 2nd best prospect in the draft?

Hm, hard to say.
How about something like Rudy + Bayless + Outlaw + rights to Joel Freeland for Rubio + Brewer + Henk Norel?

It gives you

- Rudy: a SG that can be close to a 20 ppg scorer (at the very least a very efficient 15/3.5/3.5 guy in his prime), has playmaking skills, brings energy/hustle and is a good fit next to Flynn and with Love/Jefferson (on kick-outs) since he's a 3pt assassin
- Bayless: an attacking PG/SG with an incredible swagger and work ethic, who is also a good defender. You could bring him off the bench or, in 1-2 years, start him. He has just as much potential as Flynn IMO.
- Outlaw: a supersub SF/PF, that is one of the NBA's best 6th men and clutch. And if you don't want him, you could simply renounce his contract and save 3.6 million. Keeping him is the better option for you by far though.
- the better and probably more talented player between the two Euro PFs*
- some quality pieces for next year (and the following seasons) instead of having to wait for Rubio

Not sure how high you guys value Brewer..
Other guys on your roster like Songaila (trade restriction), Gomes (huge contract), Telfair (not again), Thomas (trade restriction + expiring), Madsen, Cardinal or Smith (expirings) would probably not make much sense and are difficult to be traded. So Brewer is pretty much the only one that makes sense. For you because he's coming off an injury and didn't really produce much so far. For us because he's not a bad player, especially defensively, and is a quality backup (he would probably not play more than 15 mpg) at SF.

*(The Freeland/Norel swap: You guys get the better player, who is a half year older, but has just as much if not more upside and is already an important rotation player with better stats (scoring, rebounding), even on a per40 basis. We get Rubio's teammate to keep him happy.)

[shrink]

I think Oden is already just as good as Bynum.

I remember the days when that used to be a really big deal.

Yes, its Oden's first year, but you can't neglect the value drop because injury made it so, despite two years in the NBA. And there is a reason Oden only played 22 MPG too -- because he can't stop fouling people. Now, I personally wouldn't call him a huge bust, but compared to the hype he had two years ago, simply being a good starting center is so far below that, the definition could be applied as a comparison.

I can't imagine a team that we'd be less likely to help out with Rubio than division rival POR. I'm not enamored with Rudy Fernandez. I think he gets over-hyped because he was acquired by POR. I remember all the hype Sergio got for one year.

[revprodeji]

i'm not concerned about defense from the new backcourt. rubio is ok, and think will improve. flynn is already a very intense defender with a good nose. tough. but might be a little too short.

i'm more concerned about the offense with those 2. both can't shoot. i mean, they are really bad shooters. we can't take advantage of their passing abilities, when they can't drain those shots. both are at only 50% when not having the ball. both need the ball to get to their full potential.
.

Rubio is already 6'5 he will fill out and need to defend SG as the quick pg and no hand check rule will hurt him guarding fast pg. But with his size he should have no problem with SG's. If the SG is going to post then the coach/team needs to respond.

Why do people think Flynn cannot shoot? 52% on 2pt, 79 on FT, his 1.24 PPP in unguarded catch and shoot situations and .94 PPP on pull up jumpers are both very respectable. I know he got only 32 of his 3pt shots, but that can improve as his range increases. He already has a nice mid range shot. Couple those tools with his capacity to drive in both directions and his ability to draw fouls (16.1% SF) and he can score.

[Tirion]

What else do we get with Rudy for the 2nd best prospect in the draft?

Hm, hard to say.
How about something like Rudy + Bayless + Outlaw + rights to Joel Freeland for Rubio + Brewer + Henk Norel?

It gives you

- Rudy: a SG that can be close to a 20 ppg scorer (at the very least a very efficient 15/3.5/3.5 guy in his prime), has playmaking skills, brings energy/hustle and is a good fit next to Flynn and with Love/Jefferson (on kick-outs) since he's a 3pt assassin
- Bayless: an attacking PG/SG with an incredible swagger and work ethic, who is also a good defender. You could bring him off the bench or, in 1-2 years, start him. He has just as much potential as Flynn IMO.
- Outlaw: a supersub SF/PF, that is one of the NBA's best 6th men and clutch. And if you don't want him, you could simply renounce his contract and save 3.6 million. Keeping him is the better option for you by far though.
- the better and probably more talented player between the two Euro PFs*
- some quality pieces for next year (and the following seasons) instead of having to wait for Rubio

Not sure how high you guys value Brewer..
Other guys on your roster like Songaila (trade restriction), Gomes (huge contract), Telfair (not again), Thomas (trade restriction + expiring), Madsen, Cardinal or Smith (expirings) would probably not make much sense and are difficult to be traded. So Brewer is pretty much the only one that makes sense. For you because he's coming off an injury and didn't really produce much so far. For us because he's not a bad player, especially defensively, and is a quality backup (he would probably not play more than 15 mpg) at SF.

*(The Freeland/Norel swap: You guys get the better player, who is a half year older, but has just as much if not more upside and is already an important rotation player with better stats (scoring, rebounding), even on a per40 basis. We get Rubio's teammate to keep him happy.)

That's a pretty decent offer actually, unlike that NY crap.

PG Flynn/Bayless
SG Rudy/Ellington
SF Outlaw/Gomes
PF Love/Smith
C Al/D-Song

Too bad Wolves and Blazers are division rivals.

[revprodeji]

A team looking for a foundation does not move a potential stud for pieces. We need a comparable stud player.

Rubio trades should be starting with Eric Gordon level young players at the 5,3,2. Personally I say keep him, but if you want to blow us away with an offer than offer something.

[Jack wore plaid]

LOL at comparable stud player. Flynn or Rubio havn't done anything yet. I guess we could trade Jeff Pendergraph and Patty Mills for one of them since they are potential studs as well.

Rudy set a rookie record for 3's, and made one of the all rookie teams.


As for this Oden is a bust crap.....I get tired of reading ignorant fans spout this crap out.

Oden's PER was better than Howard's rookie year, Bynums first two years

Oden's PER this past season was 18.3. Second highest of any rookie. HIs PER was higher than Ewing's, Garrnetts', Al Jefferson's, Dwight Howard's and Amare Stoudemire's rookie years.

His per 32 minute numbers were all better than Howards were his rookie year. Yes, Oden fouled way too much. He probably will always have a high number of fouls, but completely recovering from his knee surgery, which takes two years, should cut down on that.


Here is a nice article that shows how good he was

http://www.lolsports.com/nba/oden/

[slinky]

As for this Oden is a bust crap.....I get tired of reading ignorant fans spout this crap out.

Whoa, there was 1 or 2 posters who said that...dont come vent on here, just because Oden is a bust... We can start Greg Oden thread here, and we can all vent there. But I agree his value isnt as high right now, but its more to do with the amount of hype he came in with plus the knee injury and not necessarily his performance.

LOL at comparable stud player. Flynn or Rubio havn't done anything yet. I guess we could trade Jeff Pendergraph and Patty Mills for one of them since they are potential studs as well

Do you really believe Jeff Pendergraph and Patty Mills have the same potential as Rubio or Flynn? Cause I think you are missing the point.

Rudy set a rookie record for 3's, and made one of the all rookie teams

Ok, so based on this stat that you are using to prove Rudy's worth, Rudy's ceiling is Dennis Scott. Scott holds the record for most 3 FG's made in a Season. Oh and who's rookie record did he beat...Kerry Kittles.

I dont want to start a debate here about Rudy Fernandez. I like him, I would want him. But the point here is that, he doesnt carry the same appeal that Rubio does. That why POR "wants" him. Anytime a team wants to acquire the biggest commodity in a deal they have to pay for it. It happens in every sport. Look at what ATl gave up to get Michael Vick. Imagine what teams would have given the Nationals if they could have traded Stephen Strasbourg at the MLB draft this year. Rubio's value far outweighs the marketing potential and international exposure than the normal rookie. Imagine the cash that would need to be added to a trade to compensate for the amount of money Rubio could bring the blazers. Its one of the reasons the Wolves won't trade Rubio, they used to have exposure with KG, but since he left, how many national televised games have the wolves had? The wolves have good players that the average fan hasnt heard about namely a top-20 player in Al Jefferson, and I apologize for the bias but the top rookie last year in Love(seriously, rookie second team?). Rubio would bring exposure to those guys and to the wolves. Thats why Rubio for Fernandez doesnt work. Sure maybe the current ability is the same but I am sure the wolves are taking in consideration different factors.

Oh I forgot this a Flynn thread.... Flynn would bring leadership to the blazers. Bayless has great physical tools but he is not a vocal leader. Flynn isnt a sexy pick like Rubio, but its substance over style with him. And lets not discount the fact that their was probably no one as physically impressive as Flynn in the draft. Maybe Griffin, but Flynn is an atheltic beast.

[slinky]

FYI, I am in the keep Flynn and Rubio camp. I think it can work.

The wolves have 2-3 years before they have to worry about how their championship contending team meshes.

[Jack wore plaid]

As for this Oden is a bust crap.....I get tired of reading ignorant fans spout this crap out.

Whoa, there was 1 or 2 posters who said that...dont come vent on here, just because Oden is a bust... We can start Greg Oden thread here, and we can all vent there. But I agree his value isnt as high right now, but its more to do with the amount of hype he came in with plus the knee injury and not necessarily his performance.

LOL at comparable stud player. Flynn or Rubio havn't done anything yet. I guess we could trade Jeff Pendergraph and Patty Mills for one of them since they are potential studs as well

Do you really believe Jeff Pendergraph and Patty Mills have the same potential as Rubio or Flynn? Cause I think you are missing the point.

Rudy set a rookie record for 3's, and made one of the all rookie teams

Ok, so based on this stat that you are using to prove Rudy's worth, Rudy's ceiling is Dennis Scott. Scott holds the record for most 3 FG's made in a Season. Oh and who's rookie record did he beat...Kerry Kittles.

I dont want to start a debate here about Rudy Fernandez. I like him, I would want him. But the point here is that, he doesnt carry the same appeal that Rubio does. That why POR "wants" him. Anytime a team wants to acquire the biggest commodity in a deal they have to pay for it. It happens in every sport. Look at what ATl gave up to get Michael Vick. Imagine what teams would have given the Nationals if they could have traded Stephen Strasbourg at the MLB draft this year. Rubio's value far outweighs the marketing potential and international exposure than the normal rookie. Imagine the cash that would need to be added to a trade to compensate for the amount of money Rubio could bring the blazers. Its one of the reasons the Wolves won't trade Rubio, they used to have exposure with KG, but since he left, how many national televised games have the wolves had? The wolves have good players that the average fan hasnt heard about namely a top-20 player in Al Jefferson, and I apologize for the bias but the top rookie last year in Love(seriously, rookie second team?). Rubio would bring exposure to those guys and to the wolves. Thats why Rubio for Fernandez doesnt work. Sure maybe the current ability is the same but I am sure the wolves are taking in consideration different factors.

Oh I forgot this a Flynn thread.... Flynn would bring leadership to the blazers. Bayless has great physical tools but he is not a vocal leader. Flynn isnt a sexy pick like Rubio, but its substance over style with him. And lets not discount the fact that their was probably no one as physically impressive as Flynn in the draft. Maybe Griffin, but Flynn is an atheltic beast.

Actually, Bayless is an extremely vocal guy. Bayless is an athletic freak as well. Bayless just isn't a trau PG, but I'm not sure we need that with Roy. Roy likes to have the ball in his hands (no homo) and the ideal PG beside him is someone who can deal with that.


I actually like Flynn a lot more than Rubio. I think he is going to be a very good player, but I do't don't think he will be better than Rudy, or if he is, I believe they will be on the same tier.

What I don't want is for this to come off like I am bashing the Wolves players. I think you guys had a really good draft, and are rebuilding the same way Portland did. I think in 3-4 years you guys will be in the playoff hunt. I use that number because it's about the time Portland did it in. If you can strike gold with one of these picks and land a Brandon Roy talent you should be able to get there.

[cingular]

Here's a tip for Minny fans.

Kahn is never trading with Pritchard anything of significance as long as Pritchard is still the GM of PDX.

[FairDinkum]

Here's a tip for Minny fans.

Kahn is never trading with Pritchard anything of significance as long as Pritchard is still the GM of PDX.

Says who? You?

Your GM didn't have the balls to pull the pin on #5, ours did

We are glad he did

Now go back to your 2010 pipedream

[cingular]

Here's a tip for Minny fans.

Kahn is never trading with Pritchard anything of significance as long as Pritchard is still the GM of PDX.

Says who? You?

Your GM didn't have the balls to pull the pin on #5, ours did

We are glad he did

Now go back to your 2010 pipedream

Yea Kahn will make a big splash trading with your biggest rival PDX.

You pulled the plug on a draft pick that was Brandon Roy. Kahn never though Rubio would slide to #5 nor did Walsh in the first place.

Why didn't you take the offer from GSW for KG way back when???
This has nothing to do with team you pull for, more common sense.

2010 is no pipedream bro, NYK will bring at least one MAX free agent, and no said it had to be Lebron.

If anything is a pipedream at THIS point in time, it would be for Minny to bring in a max free agent in 2010.

[Worm Guts]

I'd rather not trade either Flynn or Rubio at this point unless we get a great offer. I don't buy that they can play together long term, but I would like to see them battle it out. Best man wins.