If anyone ever wondered what a complete, miserable sourpuss "Net Income" was, then check this out:

[gigantes]

Okay, not sure how many people saw this, but:
https://www.netsdaily.com/2023/5/17/23723696/opinion-brooklyn-nets-shouldnt-do-what-theyre-going-to-do

Agree / disagree, it's a fascinating article, no?
LUCAS KAPLAN to me is just... damn!

[NetsWorld]

Okay, not sure how many people saw this, but:
https://www.netsdaily.com/2023/5/17/23723696/opinion-brooklyn-nets-shouldnt-do-what-theyre-going-to-do

Agree / disagree, it's a fascinating article, no?
LUCAS KAPLAN to me is just... damn!

I disagreed because we don't have our own picks. Scoot may/may not be a great player down the road but I think Marks wants to avoid the mistake/mess Billy made. So far, Houston has NOT capitalized on our picks and rebuilding will only increase the chances Houston does well at our expense. I don't want anymore Jaylen Brown's/ Tatum's on another team thanks to us. No thank you, I would rather retool and trade for stars if that's the case.

[TheNetsFan]

What's the Kaplan article have to do with NI being a sourpuss? Not sure I see that correlation.

That being said, I disagree with his take. We tore down already. We have a ton of future draft picks at our disposal. There's no reason to trade 27 or 23 year olds for more draft picks. Sell Dinwiddie, DFS, Royce fine, but you're one alpha away from being in contention for a top 4 seed. You're probably an alpha & a #3 (unless you believe Johnson can develop into one) away from title contender. Simply staying the course opens up alpha opportunities in 2025 free agency, at which point Bridges/Johnson will be turning 29 & Claxton will be turning 26. All 3 will still have a half decade plus of good basketball left.

Saying we have to go all in or tear down right now is silly. We can tread water for a year or two & wait to go all-in in free agency or wait for the right star worth going all-in on is available.

[gigantes]

Fair enough.

And I'll be honest-- I've been a fan of Bob going back ~22years, but let's not make no bones about it, right? Dude's a total, obnoxious a-hole, and if you've been reading the site across the years, okay.

Or, like, who ELSE do you imagine Lucas might be talking about?
Or maybe I'm just totally wrong here, dude?

Now, Bob's VERY good with details IMO, but at the end of the day?
He's just a glorified, self-important fan, too often drunk on his own flatulence.

That being said, I disagree with his take. We tore down already. We have a ton of future draft picks at our disposal. There's no reason to trade 27 or 23 year olds for more draft picks. Sell Dinwiddie, DFS, Royce fine, but you're one alpha away from being in contention for a top 4 seed. You're probably an alpha & a #3 (unless you believe Johnson can develop into one) away from title contender. Simply staying the course opens up alpha opportunities in 2025 free agency, at which point Bridges/Johnson will be turning 29 & Claxton will be turning 26. All 3 will still have a half decade plus of good basketball left.

Saying we have to go all in or tear down right now is silly. We can tread water for a year or two & wait to go all-in in free agency or wait for the right star worth going all-in on is available.

Please.

Let's be real, dude--
We're not anywhere NEAR being a contender, and wasting our amazing draft capital just to maintain this overcompensation, deal...?

Or, look at it this way--
Sean Marks has never had the chance to use his most amazing skill of all (i.e. talent evaluation) on top draft picks.

Well, looky here-- and NOW we have a bunch of unique opportunities, coming up.
And you guys are telling me that you've learned nothing across the years, and you're happy to keep blowing trade capital to overcompensate a problematic roster?

*&^@#(*!$*

Yeah, Lucas Kaplan is saying what OKC & HOU fans have been saying across the years.
Something wrong with that..?

I DON'T THINK SO.

[TheNetsFan]

Fair enough.

And I'll be honest-- I've been a fan of Bob going back ~22years, but let's not make no bones about it, right? Dude's a total, obnoxious a-hole, and if you've been reading the site across the years, okay.

Or, like, who ELSE do you imagine Lucas might be talking about?
Or maybe I'm just totally wrong here, dude?

Now, Bob's VERY good with details IMO, but at the end of the day?
He's just a glorified, self-important fan, too often drunk on his own flatulence.

That being said, I disagree with his take. We tore down already. We have a ton of future draft picks at our disposal. There's no reason to trade 27 or 23 year olds for more draft picks. Sell Dinwiddie, DFS, Royce fine, but you're one alpha away from being in contention for a top 4 seed. You're probably an alpha & a #3 (unless you believe Johnson can develop into one) away from title contender. Simply staying the course opens up alpha opportunities in 2025 free agency, at which point Bridges/Johnson will be turning 29 & Claxton will be turning 26. All 3 will still have a half decade plus of good basketball left.

Saying we have to go all in or tear down right now is silly. We can tread water for a year or two & wait to go all-in in free agency or wait for the right star worth going all-in on is available.

Please.

Let's be real, dude--
We're not anywhere NEAR being a contender, and wasting our amazing draft capital just to maintain this overcompensation, deal...?

Or, look at it this way--
Sean Marks has never had the chance to use his most amazing skill of all (i.e. talent evaluation) on top draft picks.

Well, looky here-- and NOW we have a bunch of unique opportunities, coming up.
And you guys are telling me that you've learned nothing across the years, and you're happy to keep blowing trade capital to overcompensate a problematic roster?

*&^@#(*!$*

Yeah, Lucas Kaplan is saying what OKC & HOU fans have been saying across the years.
Something wrong with that..?

I DON'T THINK SO.

Who saying to blow trade capital to overcompensate a problematic roster? What are the main problems on this roster? PG & PF. Upgrading those spots is not overcompensating, but it is addressing the weaknesses. I also didn't say go blow everything on Lillard or somebody else of the ilk. I did say just staying the course, keeping the Bridges-Clax-Johnson trio and having max cap space in '25 is perhaps the most viable option. You have the opportunity to bring in a star to go along with those 3, and you maintain your pick trove (the majority of which are '25 or later) for using or trading for another star. Getting a star on the relatively cheap where you can maintain the majority of the picks is also a viable option. The only thing we shouldn't do is blow the majority of our assets on a single player right now (unless that player is MVP caliber).

There's no reason to sell off guys just entering or not yet approaching their primes for more picks. Do that & you're likely looking at a minimum of 6 seasons before even possibly making noise in the playoffs, and that's if things go well. Even if you lucked into 3 future MVPs in the upcoming drafts the way OKC did with KD, Harden & Westbrook, it still took 4 years before they got to the Conference Finals, and expecting to draft 3 players of that caliber back to back to back is a fools errand (especially when you don't have the ability to tank & control your own pick).

Build from here. No need to tear apart a core that's currently 23, 26 & 26 for picks.

[JKiddy]

The more logical approach will likely be taken.

We probably use one of our 1sts to grab what will be a role player this season (after learning from the bench for half the year) and trade either DFS or RO for future firsts. We sign or trade for a big who can rebound and/or extend the floor for spacing and maybe we move Dinwiddie and a pick or two for a Freddy V.

I do not think Lillard comes unless he makes it so that its the Nets (or Nets and a less tenable team) or bust which would force POR's hand.

That is just my take. I have only been around the block a few decades on here.... The draft will be a very telling time as well as the moves made right before or the first week of FA.

[Netaman]

I think there's no right or wrong answer and they should explore everything that's possible.

A few years ago who would have chosen Jimmy Butler over KD/Kyrie? Over Simmons? How about now?

Marks appears to be focused on finding players with the right mentality, and if there's anything to be learned from Jimmy Butler that's probably the biggest thing.

Bridges may or may not be that guy.
FVV may or may not be that guy.
Lillard may or may not be that guy (or available).
Scoot or Miller may or may not be that guy (or someone else in the draft entirely).

maybe this year is an outlier or maybe the NBA is turning into a bit more of an open competition than it used to be. Miami may already be the most successful 8 seed this century. LAL may not be a real 7 seed but I don't know how many people would have had Denver as a prohibitive title favorite at this point of the final 4. Yet here we are.

[TheNetsFan]

Read on Twitter

[gigantes]

Please.

Let's be real, dude--
We're not anywhere NEAR being a contender, and wasting our amazing draft capital just to maintain this overcompensation, deal...?

Or, look at it this way--
Sean Marks has never had the chance to use his most amazing skill of all (i.e. talent evaluation) on top draft picks.

Well, looky here-- and NOW we have a bunch of unique opportunities, coming up.
And you guys are telling me that you've learned nothing across the years, and you're happy to keep blowing trade capital to overcompensate a problematic roster?

*&^@#(*!$*

Yeah, Lucas Kaplan is saying what OKC & HOU fans have been saying across the years.
Something wrong with that..?

I DON'T THINK SO.

Who saying to blow trade capital to overcompensate a problematic roster? What are the main problems on this roster? PG & PF. Upgrading those spots is not overcompensating, but it is addressing the weaknesses. I also didn't say go blow everything on Lillard or somebody else of the ilk. I did say just staying the course, keeping the Bridges-Clax-Johnson trio and having max cap space in '25 is perhaps the most viable option. You have the opportunity to bring in a star to go along with those 3, and you maintain your pick trove (the majority of which are '25 or later) for using or trading for another star. Getting a star on the relatively cheap where you can maintain the majority of the picks is also a viable option. The only thing we shouldn't do is blow the majority of our assets on a single player right now (unless that player is MVP caliber).

There's no reason to sell off guys just entering or not yet approaching their primes for more picks. Do that & you're likely looking at a minimum of 6 seasons before even possibly making noise in the playoffs, and that's if things go well. Even if you lucked into 3 future MVPs in the upcoming drafts the way OKC did with KD, Harden & Westbrook, it still took 4 years before they got to the Conference Finals, and expecting to draft 3 players of that caliber back to back to back is a fools errand (especially when you don't have the ability to tank & control your own pick).

Build from here. No need to tear apart a core that's currently 23, 26 & 26 for picks.

Hey, man-- first of all, sorry for coming in somewhat heated and (maybe pedantic?), there.
That was a bit disrespectful.

TBH I loved the Lucas Kaplan article, and it's been frustrating thinking about (as he points out himself), that we're probably NOT going to do the smart thing[*] here, and instead will likely cater to Tsai wanting a good team here sooner rather than later.

[*] and yes, that's certainly just an opinion

And yes, I get what you're saying about full rebuilding processes naturally taking some time. The idea of being willing to wait for years & years before having a theoretical contender is a big ask of the fans, for sure.

Then again-- 1) is that really such a terrible thing when it probably gives us the best chance to field the strongest contender, unlike the last two disastrous attempts to spend too many picks & capital taking shortcuts?; 2) we're already in an advantageous position in terms of picks, and currently have an opportunity to add to that stash, and you can bet your bippy that would give us a significant jump-start in rebuilding, like NOP is already experiencing, and doubtless OKC & HOU will be enjoying as well, very soon.

And sure, we only need to patch some holes and switch some assets around to be a significantly more sound team next season. But still, that's likely just to move from a fringe PO team to a low PO team. It's what any team would do in our shoes, and isn't special.

The thing is, for a little while now, we have a unique opportunity to cash in any of at least four valued assets to bring our stock of picks closer to the elite / unique level the three teams above enjoy. For example:

CamJ-- He's 27yo, and I don't know that his ceiling is really going to get much higher. He's not really an athletic specimen, doesn't have special length, and his main skill (shooting) is nice, but nowhere near irreplaceable.
DFS-- Already 30yo, he has some value around the league, and probably doesn't fit our timeline.
Bridges-- He'll be 27yo by the start of next season, and while definitely a #2 or #3 player, sometime between now and the next couple years, he may be worth a fortune in picks to some team that likes him. Is it really a good idea to pass up that kind of haul when we have one of the smartest-drafting GM's in the league?
Clax-- He's 24yo, and we all love him, but he's not a stretch big, and gets pushed around by some other bigs inside. Still, he's arguably the greatest, most versatile bigman defender in the league, and I assume there are teams who would almost kill to get him if they could.

Of course, I don't really believe that more than ~one of these guys are going to get moved, but that's also what makes me kinda sad-- the fact that collectively they are probably vastly more valuable converted to picks than they are, trying to construct a contender.

I don't disagree with you at all that we'll probably try to fill in the blanks as possible, and nab a star where we can. But I also have little confidence that it will lead to anything much more than just a 'playoff team,' and TBH, I'm not sure that the body of Nets fans has really learned anything from the twin disasters of the last ~ten years. Fans are still just as impatient as ever.

Also, let's not forget that during the wasteland "bridge" years, we had absolutely nothing to look forward to in the short term. No assets, and no way to get immediately better, and Marks even wound up proving that it's possible to 'out-clever yourself' by tanking your own picks when they *finally* came back around.

I still believe Kaplan is mostly right on the money, and that we're headed towards missing a major opportunity by trying to pivot too quickly, here.

We've had almost a decade now of seeing what happens when you take falling stars and try to use them as the engine of a title team. Unless it's LeBron or prime KG, it just... doesn't work.

So for the time being, Marks has a major opportunity to make some trades in order to pick a slew of homegrown talent, which is generally how you build a title team (and even a dynasty). Just like NOP, OKC & HOU, I want him to blow the doors open on that possibility, and let his greatest talent shine for us.

To be clear-- I don't believe Tsai will actually approve that plan, though, and instead will fall right back in to the classic 'NYC / major market' self-destructive trap.

[vincecarter4pres]

One point that gets glanced over, or more so twisted up a bit.

The KD/Kyrie pairing was ultimately a failure, but only a disaster because of the follow up. They signed here as FA’s, costing nothing but cash space and returned a slew of picks, Bridges, Cam, Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie.

The Harden trade and the follow up to ship him out to Philly are what made this all such a disaster.

Hindsight is always easy, but man, Bridges and Harden with Clax, Cam, Royce, Finney, etc., would have been a crazy dynamic roster on paper, with all those future picks…

[Netaman]

One point that gets glanced over, or more so twisted up a bit.

The KD/Kyrie pairing was ultimately a disaster, but they signed here as FA’s, costing nothing but cash space and returned a slew of picks, Bridges, Cam, Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie.

The Harden trade and the follow up to ship him out to Philly are what made this all such a disaster.

Hindsight is always easy, but man, Bridges and Harden with Clax, Cam, Royce, Finney, etc., would have been a crazy dynamic roster on paper, with all those future picks…

one other detail that gets glossed over was dinwiddie's injury and kyrie going awol that first kd year. that's what ignited the harden trade after marks staying away for months.

and for however brief a period of time there was a chance at winning - if they could have just stayed healthy.

if harden bails on philly and morey too, essentially closing embiid's window in philly, i hope people finally just get over whether or not there was anything the nets could have done differently. kyrie was required for kd, harden was kind of required to get those 2 over the top. even by their own incredibly unreliable standards it's remarkable they couldn't keep their **** together for just 1 healthy postseason run. if they did they probably win last year or this year.

also though maybe not with the way KD fell off in the playoffs from 2021 to 22/23.

it may be that the best outcome for the nets is kind of exactly what happened (with the exception of kd being 1 shoe size too small in 2021).

[JKiddy]

One point that gets glanced over, or more so twisted up a bit.

The KD/Kyrie pairing was ultimately a disaster, but they signed here as FA’s, costing nothing but cash space and returned a slew of picks, Bridges, Cam, Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie.

The Harden trade and the follow up to ship him out to Philly are what made this all such a disaster.

Hindsight is always easy, but man, Bridges and Harden with Clax, Cam, Royce, Finney, etc., would have been a crazy dynamic roster on paper, with all those future picks…

one other detail that gets glossed over was dinwiddie's injury and kyrie going awol that first kd year. that's what ignited the harden trade after marks staying away for months.

and for however brief a period of time there was a chance at winning - if they could have just stayed healthy.

if harden bails on philly and morey too, essentially closing embiid's window in philly, i hope people finally just get over whether or not there was anything the nets could have done differently. kyrie was required for kd, harden was kind of required to get those 2 over the top. even by their own incredibly unreliable standards it's remarkable they couldn't keep their **** together for just 1 healthy postseason run. if they did they probably win last year or this year.

also though maybe not with the way KD fell off in the playoffs from 2021 to 22/23.

it may be that the best outcome for the nets is kind of exactly what happened (with the exception of kd being 1 shoe size too small in 2021).

I am with Netaman here.

These stars are too spoiled. They don't know what it takes to win. They have no patience. They can't be told no. They are crybabies. We need more MEN and TEAM PLAYERS who will SACRIFICE NUMBERS so we can WIN. PLAIN & SIMPLE.

If we can find the next Jimmy Butler mentality level player who is B+ to A grade we do it. Now, those players seem to be Bridges and Claxton. Let's build around them for 2-3 seasons and see who we can ADD to that. Maybe we can find a selfless superstar and role players of the same ilk to surround him. Maybe we don't. Let's try.

[Netaman]

If we can find the next Jimmy Butler mentality level player who is B+ to A grade we do it. Now, those players seem to be Bridges and Claxton. Let's build around them for 2-3 seasons and see who we can ADD to that. Maybe we can find a selfless superstar and role players of the same ilk to surround him. Maybe we don't. Let's try.

fvv is another who could also fit that mold. if you look around the nba a lot of the overachievers have that pedigree even going back to college bball/ncaa tourney success. all the nova guys (brunson, hart, bridges included), the brad stevens/butler groups, jimmy/marquette, etc.

with 20/20 hindsight the obvious path to a championship would have been pairing KD with Butler instead of Kyrie. they win at least 2 rings with those 2. they need to hope Bridges can hopefully get close to that level and somehow find another player on that level to play with him. and adding 3rd, 4th, 5th players like fvv, cam j, claxton who fit gives them more margin for error.

[Rich Rane]

Topic cleaned and posters suspended.