Big Lillard/POR Debate - Please vote

[vincecarter4pres]

same. do you think anything out of this package is considered premium though?



That's the angle where I was trying to come from as well... something that doesn't gut us, we keep a lot of the elite assets we have, but still maximize the trade value of what we currently have to put some elite scoring/veteran leadership around these young guys to get them grinding their teeth for the start of next season. And still try to make it enticing for Portland so they A) get immediate capital now and then, B) clear space, and C) get some chips to work with or flip (CT and DFS)

I personally consider that ‘25 Suns pick a premium asset.

Can legit see a season where they haven’t recouped the loss of ‘22 CP3’s on court impact, Durant and Booker miss a combined 60+ games, they’ve made a weird, cap/luxury tax saving move and dealt Ayton for spare parts that haven’t equaled his departure, and whispers start. They wind up mid-late lotto, and “luck” into a jump to like 3rd overall.

But I also see it where Portland is probably going to require one of these perspective top picks in any Lillard deal, which is why I’m out on him.

But alas, I see a world where Tsai forces Marks hand again, Marks winds up explaining it away in the press conference and gets the blame.

Yeah that's probably the best item out of this deal... but if it gets us from like 4 picks down to 2 by including this one, I think Marks should consider it. Phoenix will be pushing their chips in for the next few years. And now there's even speculation about them pursuing Harden... maybe the Durant Harden thing will eventually work out with no whiny little brother kryie ruining things

I would probably worry more about the really late picks, so if all things equal, the ‘25 pick is probably the one I’d send.

[Keith Van Horn]

question - does anyone remember before we dealt KD that there were rumors that we considered trading for Siakam? KD had said something like "I'd love to play with him". If Kyrie was gone and the Nets balked at making a deal for Siakam on the behalf of KD, do we know what Toronto wanted for him? How much did they want?

I'd make a strong guess they wanted Claxton in a big package. And the Nets probably drew the line at that and were like "no thanks", and then went the route of dealing KD. (and excuse my ignorance if this info came out already)

And remember the Nets were floating Claxton out last year, and apparently Toronto wanted him and even offered a 1st? I remember a lot of us were like "wow is Claxton really worth that much" lol

So I'm bringing this up bc I think the Nets would say we're keeping Claxton if Portland were to ask for him. Just my take.

[Tha King]

question - does anyone remember before we dealt KD that there were rumors that we considered trading for Siakam? KD had said something like "I'd love to play with him". If Kyrie was gone and the Nets balked at making a deal for Siakam on the behalf of KD, do we know what Toronto wanted for him? How much did they want?

I'd make a strong guess they wanted Claxton in a big package. And the Nets probably drew the line at that and were like "no thanks", and then went the route of dealing KD. (and excuse my ignorance if this info came out already)

And remember the Nets were floating Claxton out last year, and apparently Toronto wanted him and even offered a 1st? I remember a lot of us were like "wow is Claxton really worth that much" lol

So I'm bringing this up bc I think the Nets would say we're keeping Claxton if Portland were to ask for him. Just my take.

I think trading Claxton would be a big mistake but I think it's possible if the team is for some reason adamant about Lillard. He's going to be a highly coveted FA next year and with Lillard on the roster and presumably CJ too, I think it would be difficult to keep Claxton for what it would take. It would also allow the team to reduce some of the picks outgoing. For the Blazers they add a very good player with upside to a core that's lowkey pretty good all of a sudden.

[TheNetsFan]

While I wouldn't value Dame this high, let's say the baseline offer is expirings (Dinwiddie+Harris) + 5 1sts. The Blazers want to dump Nurkic on us & they want Claxton back. Marks is willing to do either, but each at the cost of 2 1sts. What's the combo Portland chooses?

They are going to want Claxton. I think if the team is actually adamant about Lillard then I can see Claxton included to not only reduce some of the picks going out but because resigning him next year would be more difficult with Lillard on the roster.

Right.

If Lillard is dealt here, it feels like an almost certainty the deal will be expanded to include Nurkic for Clax and salary matching.

Then based on above, I am only giving one FRP. Dame has bad money already on his deal. Nurk is bad money. Taking Nurk drops the offer from 5 1sts to 3. If they want Clax, that takes off more picks.

[Tha King]

They are going to want Claxton. I think if the team is actually adamant about Lillard then I can see Claxton included to not only reduce some of the picks going out but because resigning him next year would be more difficult with Lillard on the roster.

Right.

If Lillard is dealt here, it feels like an almost certainty the deal will be expanded to include Nurkic for Clax and salary matching.

Then based on above, I am only giving one FRP. Dame has bad money already on his deal. Nurk is bad money. Taking Nurk drops the offer from 5 1sts to 3. If they want Clax, that takes off more picks.

I assume Simmons would be included to match salary which would add more picks. Also, the Heat could have Herro (maybe to a different team) and picks as a baseline. Claxton is better than Herro but he'll also be an UFA next year and he's still not an established name. Realistically, I think the deal would have Claxton, Simmons, and several picks.

[Netaman]

From Shams:

Lillard linking with Miami is complicated without involving Adebayo, meaning Tyler Herro and the $120 million he’s owed over the next four seasons would be the focus of any potential trade. Maybe Victor Oladipo’s expiring money could help. Miami also has younger guys on good contracts (Caleb Martin, Nikola Jović). The Heat could also offer three first-round picks and swaps. Is that return enticing enough for Portland to trade arguably its best player ever?

A Brooklyn deal probably centers around the expiring deals of Spencer Dinwiddie and Joe Harris. That’s before hoping to pry as many of those future first-round picks Brooklyn has from Philadelphia, Phoenix and Dallas. Either way, such offers might not inspire a promising rebuild for Blazers fans.

The Miami Heat need a coffee jolt from Jimmy Butler, Damian Lillard’s short list and Shams on a crucial surgery
https://theathletic.com/4596422/2023/06/09/butler-lillard-middleton-the-bounce/

[Netaman]

So based on Shams reporting, yay or nay to this?

I assume Portland will want the better of this year's picks plus another 2 or 3 of the best future ones.

the 4 best future ones are probably Phoenix 2027/2029, Philly 2027, Dallas 2029, so in this scenario I gave Portland 3 of those 4 picks, plus the better pick this year, and Cam Thomas. Unless they love Herro I think that's what it will take to make a better deal than the Heat can offer. If I were Portland, maybe I'd swap 1 of the Phoenix picks for the Philly pick so that way you are hedging 3 different shots at teams falling out of the playoff hunt?



Money is basically equal on that deal, so post-trade Nets assuming a Cam J extension nets are into luxury tax with this rotation:

Dame
Simmons
Bridges
Cam
Claxton

Plus Royce, DFS, Sumner, Sharpe, Mills, and a FRP.

Trading 1 of Royce/DFS if not both for extra draft capital either moving up or future picks would still make a lot of sense. I think that would make using the $18m trade exception possible while also getting the TPMLE for someone like Bruce Brown. Hopefully also some $ (bi-annual?) to bring back Yuta?

[Tha King]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

[Hello Brooklyn]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

Dame trade only works if Bridges becomes a legitimate star.

BTW I don't think thats out of the question, Last year was his first year as a primary scorer and he was awesome.

We know hes a hard worker.

Bridges/Dame/Simmons/Claxton

Seems like a good team. But can't help feeling like it would be enough. Dame is too old and injury prone.

[Netaman]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

any of us would have written the same thing about Jimmy Butler and Bam as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago. A lot of us did write that about Jimmy Butler in the year approaching his FA (before knowing we'd end up with KD/Kyrie).

Cam J and Claxton are each potentially elite role players who would fit well around those top 2.

also as unlikely as it seems right now, a few years ago Ben Simmons would have been an ideal candidate to be that 3rd piece, and even if he's not that anymore next year he becomes a big expiring they can pair with draft picks to try to add a significant 3rd player to Bridges/Lillard.

[Tha King]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

any of us would have written the same thing about Jimmy Butler and Bam as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago. A lot of us did write that about Jimmy Butler in the year approaching his FA (before knowing we'd end up with KD/Kyrie).

Cam J and Claxton are each potentially elite role players who would fit well around those top 2.

also as unlikely as it seems right now, a few years ago Ben Simmons would have been an ideal candidate to be that 3rd piece, and even if he's not that anymore next year he becomes a big expiring they can pair with draft picks to try to add a significant 3rd player to Bridges/Lillard.

Yea I get the Miami comparison but I don't think it's a realistic one. For one, Butler has been very underrated but when you take a step back he's an elite wing that's been reaching superstar level in the playoffs these last few years, which is far more valuable than Lillard. The other thing - Miami is ridiculously overachieving and that is in part due to having one of the best coaches ever. That is also something Brooklyn can't replicate.

Finally, Bridges. I think his ability is being overstated. IIRC you and I were actually big proponents of taking the Suns trade last summer so it's not like I don't think he's good. However, I don't think he's a second option on a team looking to contend. If you dig into his impact in Brooklyn last season he was more of a LaVine, Beal empty calories star player that had minimal impact on winning. His defense took a step back. There was little to no playmaking. The efficient scoring was great but his high usage didn't translate to a good offense (it was mediocre). Don't know if he can become a second option and I am even more unsure if he can become an elite one which would be needed as Dame himself is a second best player on a contender.

I just think this could be a situation where you go all in w/o a ton of upside and could be left with a middling expensive team with not much ways of improving.

[Netaman]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

any of us would have written the same thing about Jimmy Butler and Bam as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago. A lot of us did write that about Jimmy Butler in the year approaching his FA (before knowing we'd end up with KD/Kyrie).

Cam J and Claxton are each potentially elite role players who would fit well around those top 2.

also as unlikely as it seems right now, a few years ago Ben Simmons would have been an ideal candidate to be that 3rd piece, and even if he's not that anymore next year he becomes a big expiring they can pair with draft picks to try to add a significant 3rd player to Bridges/Lillard.

Yea I get the Miami comparison but I don't think it's a realistic one. For one, Butler has been very underrated but when you take a step back he's an elite wing that's been reaching superstar level in the playoffs these last few years, which is far more valuable than Lillard. The other thing - Miami is ridiculously overachieving and that is in part due to having one of the best coaches ever. That is also something Brooklyn can't replicate.

Finally, Bridges. I think his ability is being overstated. IIRC you and I were actually big proponents of taking the Suns trade last summer so it's not like I don't think he's good. However, I don't think he's a second option on a team looking to contend. If you dig into his impact in Brooklyn last season he was more of a LaVine, Beal empty calories star player that had minimal impact on winning. His defense took a step back. There was little to no playmaking. The efficient scoring was great but his high usage didn't translate to a good offense (it was mediocre). Don't know if he can become a second option and I am even more unsure if he can become an elite one which would be needed as Dame himself is a second best player on a contender.

I just think this could be a situation where you go all in w/o a ton of upside and could be left with a middling expensive team with not much ways of improving.

and the alternative is waiting for something better to come along that may not come.

imo it just comes down to the deal parameters, if it's a fair trade you will still have some assets for a future deal. not as many, but probably enough and you are 1 big piece closer to contention. picks 3 or 4 years down the road are unknowns and you can recover some more near future picks trading players like dfs/oneale who are somewhat replaceable.

i wouldn't mortgage the farm but i also wouldn't pass on the chance to add a legitimate all-nba level player the same age as KD was when he signed on here and is similarly defying our historical franchise gravitas in actually enthusiastically wanting to come play here. if the deal is fair (which 3 or 4 FRPs + expirings is imo).

sentimental me is also thrilled at the idea of settling all family business and righting the wrong of the gerald wallace trade lol.

[vincecarter4pres]

They are going to want Claxton. I think if the team is actually adamant about Lillard then I can see Claxton included to not only reduce some of the picks going out but because resigning him next year would be more difficult with Lillard on the roster.

Right.

If Lillard is dealt here, it feels like an almost certainty the deal will be expanded to include Nurkic for Clax and salary matching.

Then based on above, I am only giving one FRP. Dame has bad money already on his deal. Nurk is bad money. Taking Nurk drops the offer from 5 1sts to 3. If they want Clax, that takes off more picks.

I honestly think 3 1sts is the max it should be anyway, and those 1sts being the 21/22 and the Philly pick, maybe one of ours the year Houston has a swap.

If I’m a betting man, I think whether it’s Lillard or Beal, the offer will wind up:

21
22
Philly pick
Future Nets or Phoenix pick
Clax
Simmons
Harris or Dinwiddie

For

Lillard
Nurkic

For Beal, takeout Clax, Harris/Dinwiddie

Idk if that gets it done though. But to me, that’s basically my hard limit, unless you’re convinced you can work the cap and windup with something like Giannis or Luka/Lillard or Beal/Bridges next summer and it’s basically because of the Lillard/Beal acquisition.

Like will Lillard and Beal remain great players for a couple seasons? Yeah most likely.

But after that they’re going to be on some of the worst contracts in the league and both always miss significant chunks of time.

[vincecarter4pres]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

My thoughts exactly.

If you’re keeping a MAJORITY of the future 1sts, becoming as good as possible right now, with disregard to contention does makes some sense. We have basically none of our own picks, yet you do have unprotected picks of teams rife to nosedive 2 to 5 seasons from now. You strive to be darkhorse and put a truly entertaining, sellable product on the floor, maybe make a Cinderella run like Miami is now, one year. All the while crossing your fingers you land a top 5 pick from Dallas or Phoenix sometime between the ‘25 draft and the ‘29’draft.

But if you’re giving up those picks to be a 1st to 2nd round out for 3 years, what was the point?

[Marvin Martian]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

any of us would have written the same thing about Jimmy Butler and Bam as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago. A lot of us did write that about Jimmy Butler in the year approaching his FA (before knowing we'd end up with KD/Kyrie).

Cam J and Claxton are each potentially elite role players who would fit well around those top 2.

also as unlikely as it seems right now, a few years ago Ben Simmons would have been an ideal candidate to be that 3rd piece, and even if he's not that anymore next year he becomes a big expiring they can pair with draft picks to try to add a significant 3rd player to Bridges/Lillard.

Yea I get the Miami comparison but I don't think it's a realistic one. For one, Butler has been very underrated but when you take a step back he's an elite wing that's been reaching superstar level in the playoffs these last few years, which is far more valuable than Lillard. The other thing - Miami is ridiculously overachieving and that is in part due to having one of the best coaches ever. That is also something Brooklyn can't replicate.

Finally, Bridges. I think his ability is being overstated. IIRC you and I were actually big proponents of taking the Suns trade last summer so it's not like I don't think he's good. However, I don't think he's a second option on a team looking to contend. If you dig into his impact in Brooklyn last season he was more of a LaVine, Beal empty calories star player that had minimal impact on winning. His defense took a step back. There was little to no playmaking. The efficient scoring was great but his high usage didn't translate to a good offense (it was mediocre). Don't know if he can become a second option and I am even more unsure if he can become an elite one which would be needed as Dame himself is a second best player on a contender.

I just think this could be a situation where you go all in w/o a ton of upside and could be left with a middling expensive team with not much ways of improving.

It is too early to shut the door on Bridges. He has only been playing like this for half a season and no training camp. It is worth seeing how he develops further. Yes his defense has fallen off due to expending his energy on offense. This is to be expected. He needs help.

Our offense was mediocre because none of our new acquisitions could hit a 3, not because of Bridges

Butler was not underrated, he was properly rated at the time. He has never been a number one option before and he was not putting up any superstar numbers before going to MIA. His career high PPG was 23 points. Bridges averaged 26 with us. Let's give Bridges some time.

I am against bringing on Lillard simply because as much as we want to hate on Dinwiddle, the gap between him and Lillard is not as large as the gap between DFS and someone like Pascal Siakam. DFS was that bad for us.

[HoopsFanAZ]

As a lifelong Blazers fan and a fan of Bridges and lesser but definitely of Cam … I come in peace.

1. Shaedon Sharpe is HIGHLY UNLIKELY traded unless it’s in a superstar deal, so expect him on the Blazers next season. You won’t find him included in discussions by Portland media (those with a brain) or podcasts/blogs or knowledgeable Portland fans. He is valued that highly.

2. Simons’ growth finally got CJ traded (as that pairing with Dame had limits given sub-par forwards for YEARS). It’s not that people want him traded. It’s too much of a repeat of CJ even though Ant scores from 3 levels with far better athleticism. Really good dude and actually gives a crap about D — CJ not being a physical baller — smaller SG, jump shooter, doesn’t draw or look to draw contact.

3. Dame isn’t looking to get traded. No one who seriously follows them thinks so. There are plenty of reasonable Blazers fans who want a rebuild though a young team will suck — Because they’re young. Trading Dame at 32 after arguably his best season isn’t forbidden; it’s Plan B if Cronin can’t build around him this summer — getting impact forward to go with Jerami Grant … and improve the bench … and …

4. If you want Dame — who is healthy and has been healthy in his career — the exception was a core muscle injury that he played with for OVER 2 years … toughing it out. Only with the tank job following other Blazers injuries did he get surgery during the 21-22 season. At 32 (will be 33 next season), he is actually better than he’s been for the past 3 seasons. Blazers fans have ZERO concerns on his health just serious skepticism by many of being able to contend by getting what’s needed this off-season and given turning 33. (Compared to Curry being older but with a playoff team)

5. And finally … [longer post, I know] … if Portland trades Dame, they’re going young. They’ll also trade Nurkic. You should expect Claxton will be targeted with Simmons (and Simmons only for filler and down to 2 years of contract), along with MANY picks, and probably a sign and trade for Cam — he’s young enough, plays decent D, and hits his 3’s. Cam got dinged up in Phoenix and was no better than their 4th option, but the dude can play. Portland won’t likely want NBA vets already at 29-31 who are solid players unless they they can flip them. They help you more than Portland. I’d guess the low end is 3 1st rounders depending on theoretical quality, or more likely 4 will be the ask. Two is a non-starter conversation.

Yes, I’m on the trade for Bridges and Claxton side of things as a Blazers fan. #3 for Bridges is seen by media/podcast types with insider contacts as pretty much a yes. Simons + 3 = Bridges seen as an over pay. I expect an over pay since Cronin said before last season began that he wants to push the chips in to build a contender around Dame with the right guy. That it will likely be seen as an over pay.

Again, I come in peace. This is as accurate as I can give it. Good luck, Nets fans.

[vincecarter4pres]

any of us would have written the same thing about Jimmy Butler and Bam as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago. A lot of us did write that about Jimmy Butler in the year approaching his FA (before knowing we'd end up with KD/Kyrie).

Cam J and Claxton are each potentially elite role players who would fit well around those top 2.

also as unlikely as it seems right now, a few years ago Ben Simmons would have been an ideal candidate to be that 3rd piece, and even if he's not that anymore next year he becomes a big expiring they can pair with draft picks to try to add a significant 3rd player to Bridges/Lillard.

Yea I get the Miami comparison but I don't think it's a realistic one. For one, Butler has been very underrated but when you take a step back he's an elite wing that's been reaching superstar level in the playoffs these last few years, which is far more valuable than Lillard. The other thing - Miami is ridiculously overachieving and that is in part due to having one of the best coaches ever. That is also something Brooklyn can't replicate.

Finally, Bridges. I think his ability is being overstated. IIRC you and I were actually big proponents of taking the Suns trade last summer so it's not like I don't think he's good. However, I don't think he's a second option on a team looking to contend. If you dig into his impact in Brooklyn last season he was more of a LaVine, Beal empty calories star player that had minimal impact on winning. His defense took a step back. There was little to no playmaking. The efficient scoring was great but his high usage didn't translate to a good offense (it was mediocre). Don't know if he can become a second option and I am even more unsure if he can become an elite one which would be needed as Dame himself is a second best player on a contender.

I just think this could be a situation where you go all in w/o a ton of upside and could be left with a middling expensive team with not much ways of improving.

and the alternative is waiting for something better to come along that may not come.

imo it just comes down to the deal parameters, if it's a fair trade you will still have some assets for a future deal. not as many, but probably enough and you are 1 big piece closer to contention. picks 3 or 4 years down the road are unknowns and you can recover some more near future picks trading players like dfs/oneale who are somewhat replaceable.

i wouldn't mortgage the farm but i also wouldn't pass on the chance to add a legitimate all-nba level player the same age as KD was when he signed on here and is similarly defying our historical franchise gravitas in actually enthusiastically wanting to come play here. if the deal is fair (which 3 or 4 FRPs + expirings is imo).

sentimental me is also thrilled at the idea of settling all family business and righting the wrong of the gerald wallace trade lol.

That alternative is the proper avenue imho.

Prefer to any of these deals they try and move up as far as possible in this draft and make smaller cap friendly moves.

I’ll be honest, I don’t even see us as a lock playoff team as is, next season, even including nearly perfect health.

[Tha King]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

My thoughts exactly.

If you’re keeping a MAJORITY of the future 1sts, becoming as good as possible right now, with disregard to contention does makes some sense. We have basically none of our own picks, yet you do have unprotected picks of teams rife to nosedive 2 to 5 seasons from now. You strive to be darkhorse and put a truly entertaining, sellable product on the floor, maybe make a Cinderella run like Miami is now, one year. All the while crossing your fingers you land a top 5 pick from Dallas or Phoenix sometime between the ‘25 draft and the ‘29’draft.

But if you’re giving up those picks to be a 1st to 2nd round out for 3 years, what was the point?

Agree.

You brought up Beal and I think that could be a good option and speaks to your point about forming a competitive team that might not contend which is okay though as the team doesn't control its own picks. With his contract, I think the team could get Beal without even getting to any of the future picks, so you could compete and still have upside to get better. He's not elite but he's a proven AS caliber player that could still be pretty good for the next several years.

[vincecarter4pres]

^^^That is four first round draft picks (five if you include what Din could return). That is a lot for a player towards the end of his career.

So the question I keep asking, what is the objective with a Dame trade? Dame isn't the best player on a contender (and Bridges isn't the second) and now you're left with very little in the ways of improving the roster through trade or in FA. Basically the team would be giving up all those picks (some of which could be very good) to be a treadmill team.

My thoughts exactly.

If you’re keeping a MAJORITY of the future 1sts, becoming as good as possible right now, with disregard to contention does makes some sense. We have basically none of our own picks, yet you do have unprotected picks of teams rife to nosedive 2 to 5 seasons from now. You strive to be darkhorse and put a truly entertaining, sellable product on the floor, maybe make a Cinderella run like Miami is now, one year. All the while crossing your fingers you land a top 5 pick from Dallas or Phoenix sometime between the ‘25 draft and the ‘29’draft.

But if you’re giving up those picks to be a 1st to 2nd round out for 3 years, what was the point?

Agree.

You brought up Beal and I think that could be a good option and speaks to your point about forming a competitive team that might not contend which is okay though as the team doesn't control its own picks. With his contract, I think the team could get Beal without even getting to any of the future picks, so you could compete and still have upside to get better. He's not elite but he's a proven AS caliber player that could still be pretty good for the next several years.

Yeah man, I actually love the idea of Beal if you can land him for something like 21/22/Cam T/Simmons/endless 2nd rounders, even if you throw the Philly pick in there.

I’d even be OK if you could windup doing something like 21/22 Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11 and a TPE, send the 11/Simmons/Cam T/Mills/2nds to Washington for Beal/Morris.

Lillard will almost certainly be more expensive asset-wise, probably significantly so. Let Miami have him, or let him stay in PDX then.

Hopefully follow up with DFS/Philly pick(if necessary) for a pick in the 12-16 range, or maybe Moody/19/salary filler for DFS/Philly pick. Take perceived bpa and keep it moving.

Try and trade Harris for a different overpriced ball handler/scorer, 3&D or backup big, maybe with 2 seasons remaining on their contract.

[Netaman]

Yea I get the Miami comparison but I don't think it's a realistic one. For one, Butler has been very underrated but when you take a step back he's an elite wing that's been reaching superstar level in the playoffs these last few years, which is far more valuable than Lillard. The other thing - Miami is ridiculously overachieving and that is in part due to having one of the best coaches ever. That is also something Brooklyn can't replicate.

Finally, Bridges. I think his ability is being overstated. IIRC you and I were actually big proponents of taking the Suns trade last summer so it's not like I don't think he's good. However, I don't think he's a second option on a team looking to contend. If you dig into his impact in Brooklyn last season he was more of a LaVine, Beal empty calories star player that had minimal impact on winning. His defense took a step back. There was little to no playmaking. The efficient scoring was great but his high usage didn't translate to a good offense (it was mediocre). Don't know if he can become a second option and I am even more unsure if he can become an elite one which would be needed as Dame himself is a second best player on a contender.

I just think this could be a situation where you go all in w/o a ton of upside and could be left with a middling expensive team with not much ways of improving.

and the alternative is waiting for something better to come along that may not come.

imo it just comes down to the deal parameters, if it's a fair trade you will still have some assets for a future deal. not as many, but probably enough and you are 1 big piece closer to contention. picks 3 or 4 years down the road are unknowns and you can recover some more near future picks trading players like dfs/oneale who are somewhat replaceable.

i wouldn't mortgage the farm but i also wouldn't pass on the chance to add a legitimate all-nba level player the same age as KD was when he signed on here and is similarly defying our historical franchise gravitas in actually enthusiastically wanting to come play here. if the deal is fair (which 3 or 4 FRPs + expirings is imo).

sentimental me is also thrilled at the idea of settling all family business and righting the wrong of the gerald wallace trade lol.

That alternative is the proper avenue imho.

i think it just depends on the trade cost and whatever the near term alternatives are.

ex. if Portland says they want 5 FRPs or 6 FRPs (basically cleaning us out) and Marks knows an alternative is to just sign & trade for FVV while keeping all the picks, I totally agree. in that instance the alternative is an easy choice and you pass on Dame.

if a s&t for FVV is going to cost 1 FRP and the price on Lillard is only say 3 + cam thomas and Portland prefers that deal to taking on Herro + lesser picks, the equation flips exactly the opposite way.

there could obviously be very different alternatives than FVV and we know the Nets talked about him at the deadline and he's approaching FA I used him.