2023-24 Trade Deadline Thread

[Netaman]

It's weird not liking DJM but wanting DDR since they are both best in the midrange. DJM is the better on ball guy though, also probably the better (or at least more disruptive) defender.

And 7 years younger...

[Netaman]

Murray isn’t even all that great, but he can score 20+ a game in the flow, rebound for a guard, run an offense part time, and before this year was a good defender. He’s basically rich man’s Dinwiddie. You’re giving up spare parts and mediocre assets to get him, in this case.

rich man's dinwiddie isnt far off but poor man's mitchell may be the better framing. remember it was just 2 years ago hawks gave up 3x firsts and 1x pick swap for him, which was only a few months before cleveland gave up 3x firsts and 2x swaps for mitchell (albeit with better players included as salary matching). Both are same age and both have underwhelmed in their new situations, at least in part because they haven't fit great off ball.

murray is the exact type of buy low the nets may as well try to "rehab" while they are in this weird stage of retooling. it's sort of like a 2024 version of the original DLo trade. Lakers were moving on to Lonzo Ball, so they were willing to sell low on an upside asset that fit the Nets.

[Netaman]

the picks SAS got for Murray in 2022 were:

• 2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte from New York, protected)
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick

The first 1 i believe moved back to 2024 and is protected 1-14, so likely to move back again since Charlotte is currently projected 4th.

So 1 protected pick, 2 atlanta unprotected.

we know the current ask is 2 firsts, 1 of them is almost certain to be protected, so at most they are getting 1 unprotected pick (and we know they were deep in discussions with LAL re their 2029, but passed bc they don't want to take on multi-year $).

if nets offered PHI pick and any of their unprotected 2029's the deal would probably already be done. i'm not saying they should do that, but that's my guess as to where the negotiations are held up.

[bubonicphoniks]

It's weird not liking DJM but wanting DDR since they are both best in the midrange. DJM is the better on ball guy though, also probably the better (or at least more disruptive) defender.

And 7 years younger...

Yeah. I know I just irrationally like DDR.

[Netaman]

It's weird not liking DJM but wanting DDR since they are both best in the midrange. DJM is the better on ball guy though, also probably the better (or at least more disruptive) defender.

And 7 years younger...

Yeah. I know I just irrationally like DDR.

I have no issues with a good mid-range game, a 27 year old DDR would be great. I irrationally loved Rip Hamilton so i get it.

[TheNetsFan]

the picks SAS got for Murray in 2022 were:

• 2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte from New York, protected)
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick

The first 1 i believe moved back to 2024 and is protected 1-14, so likely to move back again since Charlotte is currently projected 4th.

So 1 protected pick, 2 atlanta unprotected.

we know the current ask is 2 firsts, 1 of them is almost certain to be protected, so at most they are getting 1 unprotected pick (and we know they were deep in discussions with LAL re their 2029, but passed bc they don't want to take on multi-year $).

if nets offered PHI pick and any of their unprotected 2029's the deal would probably already be done. i'm not saying they should do that, but that's my guess as to where the negotiations are held up.

They also traded an injured Gallinari who was out for the year, but are unwilling to take back any future salary, even if it's with a serviceable player like DLo.

That Charlotte pick is virtually guaranteed to be 2 2nds.

They gave up bad money, 2 2nds, 2 firsts and a swap. Taking no bad money back, and given the current situation, at least one less first round pick is fair.

[Tha King]

I wouldn't trade any picks to upgrade this roster because this team is pretty far away from being good and trading high variance draft picks to just become play-in level doesn't sound like a good direction. Would especially not trade multiple picks for Murray who is inefficient and empty stats. It's been said he and Trae are not a good fit but that speaks more to Murray because Trae is an offensive system on his own and a team with Murray as the sole/primary playmaker is going nowhere offensively. Two firsts for Murray I would not do at all.

I would actually consider LaVine and Dlo. I understand the drawbacks but both are at a distressed level and probably would not require even a single draft pick. At the same time, you get the playmaking and scoring this team needs. You do sacrifice flexibility and cap space but if you can put together a competitive team (while the rockets own the picks) without sacrificing any draft capital, I think that's a good option to take. Here's a framework on getting both:

Nets Out: Din, Cam Johnson, Thomas
Nets In: LaVine, Dlo (tpe)

You lose Thomas but his best realistic outcome is becoming a player like LaVine (efficient scoring, limited to non-existent defense) so why not just get LaVine and improve immediately?

Dlo/Smith
LaVine/Walker
Bridges/O'Neale
DFS/Watford
Claxton/Sharpe

I think that team could compete for the playoffs and you still have all the picks to further improve.

Hawks Out: Murray
In: Cam Johnson, Lakers pick

Lakers Out: Dlo, pick
In: Murray

Bulls Out: LaVine
In: Din, Thomas

Thoughts?

Could also have a version with DFS/O'Neale instead of CJ but their defense would be more important on the new team and I think CJ has more trade value.

[bubonicphoniks]

It's weird not liking DJM but wanting DDR since they are both best in the midrange. DJM is the better on ball guy though, also probably the better (or at least more disruptive) defender.

And 7 years younger...

Yeah. I know I just irrationally like DDR.

I have no issues with a good mid-range game, a 27 year old DDR would be great. I irrationally loved Rip Hamilton so i get it.

Lol me too.

Ah IDK we'll see. Just feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic right now.

[Netaman]

Yeah. I know I just irrationally like DDR.

I have no issues with a good mid-range game, a 27 year old DDR would be great. I irrationally loved Rip Hamilton so i get it.

Lol me too.

Ah IDK we'll see. Just feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic right now.

To some degree they are. This roster as is isn't going anywhere. It may not go much farther with Murray, but it would be better.

And if it works, all of a sudden they have 3 starters at age 27 signed for the next several years, probably extend Claxton, and a bunch of picks to hopefully add the next real impact player to take that core to a real competitive level.

[vincecarter4pres]

I wouldn't trade any picks to upgrade this roster because this team is pretty far away from being good and trading high variance draft picks to just become play-in level doesn't sound like a good direction. Would especially not trade multiple picks for Murray who is inefficient and empty stats. It's been said he and Trae are not a good fit but that speaks more to Murray because Trae is an offensive system on his own and a team with Murray as the sole/primary playmaker is going nowhere offensively. Two firsts for Murray I would not do at all.

I would actually consider LaVine and Dlo. I understand the drawbacks but both are at a distressed level and probably would not require even a single draft pick. At the same time, you get the playmaking and scoring this team needs. You do sacrifice flexibility and cap space but if you can put together a competitive team (while the rockets own the picks) without sacrificing any draft capital, I think that's a good option to take. Here's a framework on getting both:

Nets Out: Din, Cam Johnson, Thomas
Nets In: LaVine, Dlo (tpe)

You lose Thomas but his best realistic outcome is becoming a player like LaVine (efficient scoring, limited to non-existent defense) so why not just get LaVine and improve immediately?

Dlo/Smith
LaVine/Walker
Bridges/O'Neale
DFS/Watford
Claxton/Sharpe

I think that team could compete for the playoffs and you still have all the picks to further improve.

Hawks Out: Murray
In: Cam Johnson, Lakers pick

Lakers Out: Dlo, pick
In: Murray

Bulls Out: LaVine
In: Din, Thomas

Thoughts?

Could also have a version with DFS/O'Neale instead of CJ but their defense would be more important on the new team and I think CJ has more trade value.

You know I’m a huge critic of Thomas, probably too critical even, but to me, this ain’t it.

Lavine’s contract is just too much and hear you on the realistic upside for Cam, but the age gap and the likely massive contract difference leaves Cam with real upside both as an affordable and important 6xth man scorcher, and as a trade piece. Even as just desirable salary with youth on his side, to entice the final push on a close race for a star against another team with similar draft assets.

Cam wouldn’t even have to fulfill his Lavine ceiling, he could just remain similar to what he currently is with just a little more bbiq simply from experience.

Cam probably isn’t a huge asset right now, but it only takes a team or two to love him, to come in as a third team in a blockbuster, and Lavine is the opposite, a negative value contract and player, Imho.

[vincecarter4pres]

The King, also wanted to touch on the draft picks in a Murray trade, or any trade involving those specific ones:

That Philly pick is just as likely to be a 2nd rounder as a mid to late 1st. Iirc it’s top 8 protected permanently( or might become top 7), then I know it eventually and quickly becomes a 2nd.

Philly is likely to either remain a top 6 playoff team, or with injury and a barren roster be a top 5 pick. I see little room for that magic in between of pick 9 through late teens.

You’re probably shipping like the 22nd pick in ‘28, or a high 2nd in ‘29.

The other pick would be late round fodder in ‘24 or ‘25 in all likelihood from a team like Denver, routed from Orlando, or team like OKC, etc., created by dealing DFS, who is one of the most overrated players in the league Imho.

[vincecarter4pres]

Almost have to wonder if Landry Fields is going to make a shocking Murray counter offer to Marks hours before the deadline, and ask for all the premium picks, Dinwiddie and DFS for Trae?


And then what does Marks counter with?

I don’t know I want something like that to happen, but he would fit the rest of this roster like a glove. He’d probably average 16apg with Bridges, Cam J, Clax and whoever else running with him lol.

[Decipher]

No problem with Din but that really should be his last game as a Net

He’s not staying so no point risking an injury

[Netaman]

wins/losses dont really matter but the flaws of this roster are obvious, starting with no ballhandler who can close out games.

if they dont get murray, whats the point of the next 1.5 seasons? or keeping bridges/cam j/clax? may as well load up ammo.

simmons/dinwiddie failed their auditions.

murray isnt a savior but theyd still be a .500+ team if they had him. philly pick + dfs is worth that.

[NetsWorld]

Here's an idea, why not just trade away the bulk of the roster that is in their late twenties, fire Vaughn, Marks gets firedand get a management team capable of building organically. Cam Thomas has that potential and has shown improvement in his game; I am so sick of Marks making the Nets team about him and not about the team needs and the fans.

#RescueNetsfromMarks/Tsai.

[vincecarter4pres]

Here's an idea, why not just trade away the bulk of the roster that is in their late twenties, fire Vaughn, Marks gets firedand get a management team capable of building organically. Cam Thomas has that potential and has shown improvement in his game; I am so sick of Marks making the Nets team about him and not about the team needs and the fans.

#RescueNetsfromMarks/Tsai.

Probably a lot more to do with Tsai and the NYC market then it does Marks.

Marks has shown an innate ability to draft, he’s likely foaming at the mouth to do an organic rebuild at this point, but doubt he’s allowed to and with the abortions that are both Harden trades, it’s hard to at this point tbh.

That said, you sign KD and Kyrie a thousand more times if you had it to do all over again, but the decisions which followed those signings that are what have us here.

[Netaman]

Here's an idea, why not just trade away the bulk of the roster that is in their late twenties, fire Vaughn, Marks gets firedand get a management team capable of building organically. Cam Thomas has that potential and has shown improvement in his game; I am so sick of Marks making the Nets team about him and not about the team needs and the fans.

#RescueNetsfromMarks/Tsai.

Probably a lot more to do with Tsai and the NYC market then it does Marks.

Marks has shown an innate ability to draft, he’s likely foaming at the mouth to do an organic rebuild at this point, but doubt he’s allowed to and with the abortions that are both Harden trades, it’s hard to at this point tbh.

That said, you sign KD and Kyrie a thousand more times if you had it to do all over again, but the decisions which followed those signings that are what have us here.

Marks is a stud.
Signing KD and everything that came with it is a move every franchise makes 100/100 even though we all know how many problems that path triggered.

I do worry about Tsai. Owners often make mistakes. Firing Marks would be a mistake.

JV has never been Marks' first choice, so I while I don't think he's done a good job and do give Marks some blame for JV, we know his first choice last year and it would have been awesome (ime). Nash sucked but i blame that one on KD 100%.

With where we are right now, Marks has given this all-wings JV group a full year now basically. It would be dumb to go beyond this deadline without some kind of structural change. Even if it's just trading off veterans for some draft capital/young players. Or creating room to give Clowney/Wilson/Whitehead more time in the NBA the rest of the year. This group had the potential to be competitive like they were in the play-in, but it just didn't happen. If you can add Murray to try to get the team back to the play-in level go for it. If not trade DFS/Royce while you can for whatever you can get. Listen on everybody else. And start making a list of new head coaching options for the summer.

[Tha King]

The King, also wanted to touch on the draft picks in a Murray trade, or any trade involving those specific ones:

That Philly pick is just as likely to be a 2nd rounder as a mid to late 1st. Iirc it’s top 8 protected permanently( or might become top 7), then I know it eventually and quickly becomes a 2nd.

Philly is likely to either remain a top 6 playoff team, or with injury and a barren roster be a top 5 pick. I see little room for that magic in between of pick 9 through late teens.

You’re probably shipping like the 22nd pick in ‘28, or a high 2nd in ‘29.

The other pick would be late round fodder in ‘24 or ‘25 in all likelihood from a team like Denver, routed from Orlando, or team like OKC, etc., created by dealing DFS, who is one of the most overrated players in the league Imho.

yea if it's something built around the Sixers pick and whatever you get for DFS then I think that's solid.

[Netaman]

The King, also wanted to touch on the draft picks in a Murray trade, or any trade involving those specific ones:

That Philly pick is just as likely to be a 2nd rounder as a mid to late 1st. Iirc it’s top 8 protected permanently( or might become top 7), then I know it eventually and quickly becomes a 2nd.

Philly is likely to either remain a top 6 playoff team, or with injury and a barren roster be a top 5 pick. I see little room for that magic in between of pick 9 through late teens.

You’re probably shipping like the 22nd pick in ‘28, or a high 2nd in ‘29.

The other pick would be late round fodder in ‘24 or ‘25 in all likelihood from a team like Denver, routed from Orlando, or team like OKC, etc., created by dealing DFS, who is one of the most overrated players in the league Imho.

yea if it's something built around the Sixers pick and whatever you get for DFS then I think that's solid.

the only thing they cant do is give up are future unprotected picks that could end up top 10, and im not that concerned about that here. even if they give up 1 of the phoenix or dallas picks, they can add protections to them.

the Pacers didn't give up any unprotected picks for Siakam btw. 2024 first-round pick lesser of picks from Jazz/Clippers/Rockets/Thunder and 2026 first-round pick via Pacers, protected 1-4.

id be fine giving up the PHI pick and any other lotto protected pick (maybe the suns 2025?) but preferably they can get the other FRP from a DFS trade.

[Netaman]

this guy seems to be the hawks version of netsdaily. i would imagine the nets/hawks have some frameworks north of what the LAL offer was and both are shopping the market for 3rd teams to make them better (and in the hawks case, hoping any other team comes in with a bigger offer).

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