Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[TheNetsFan]

I got my sights on bigger fish than Mitchell. Tatum, Ingram, Giannis.

In what world is Ingram a bigger fish than Mitchell? I don't see Tatum or Giannis leaving their teams, but over 30 Giannis would worry me a bit as a big guy whose game is predicated on his athleticism & physicality.

[Marvin Martian]

I get your point on trae but out of the three him, kat, sga. Trae looks like the most attainable. We literally built a perfect team for someone like him, plus no way he wouldn't love to play against knicks in the garden 2 times a year.

Trae would make this team a top 10 offense instantly. Yes there are concerns about his defense but CLE has a bad defensive backcourt and yet they are number one in defense. With Trae and a solid defense, you have a foundation for a 1A star to want to play for the Nets. And unlike the Kyrie era, that player will not own the team and take over the culture

Nah I'm cool on Trae, dude is not it. He has a really good team and he's leading them to under .500 , that's not good. he had one good year where he went far in the playoffs and ppl think he's something special, he's just not that guy. Dude is shooting under 40% in this analytical stat era, alot worse than A.I .

Hawks fans would rather Murray take over then to keep him so that should tell you something. I don't see how Cavs have a bad defensive backcourt at all. Garland is not terrible on defense and neither is Mitchell. But Trae is the worst in the whole NBA on defense by far.

The Cavs have a good defense because they have Mobley and Allen. Mitchell and Garland are undersized and are not good defenders at all. We have the players to protect Trae on defense like the Cavs have Mobley and Allen to protect their backcourt.

Trae is having a down year (and yet is still averaging 27 ppg on average efficiency) which is a good buy low opportunity. Their ceiling is capped. It won't cost a lot to get him, unlike guys like SGA which will require a godfather offer that the nets cannot afford. Trae is keeping ATL just under .500. If he wasn't there, they would be a bottom 5 team.

The Nets desperately needs a floor general to keep the offense from going out of control, especially when Bridges is on the bench.

[Lachiebkn]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

Read on Twitter

Ben Simmons has shown some flashes of his old self but for the most part has been absolutely terrible.

He has no trade value and would take assets to move his contract. Im not willing to attach any of our future to move him because we have time now to rebuild him.

I think we would all agree that the nets are willing to give bridges time to continue to develop into a potential all star

Well we actually have a 3 time all star and all nba player on our roster that’s the same age. Ben Simmons. Surely he should be given the same time to get healthy and back to the old Ben too.

Confidence in your body goes along way to confidence in your game. I hope he can get healthy in mind and body.

[Keith Van Horn]

Trae would make this team a top 10 offense instantly. Yes there are concerns about his defense but CLE has a bad defensive backcourt and yet they are number one in defense. With Trae and a solid defense, you have a foundation for a 1A star to want to play for the Nets. And unlike the Kyrie era, that player will not own the team and take over the culture

Nah I'm cool on Trae, dude is not it. He has a really good team and he's leading them to under .500 , that's not good. he had one good year where he went far in the playoffs and ppl think he's something special, he's just not that guy. Dude is shooting under 40% in this analytical stat era, alot worse than A.I .

Hawks fans would rather Murray take over then to keep him so that should tell you something. I don't see how Cavs have a bad defensive backcourt at all. Garland is not terrible on defense and neither is Mitchell. But Trae is the worst in the whole NBA on defense by far.

The Cavs have a good defense because they have Mobley and Allen. Mitchell and Garland are undersized and are not good defenders at all. We have the players to protect Trae on defense like the Cavs have Mobley and Allen to protect their backcourt.

Trae is having a down year (and yet is still averaging 27 ppg on average efficiency) which is a good buy low opportunity. Their ceiling is capped. It won't cost a lot to get him, unlike guys like SGA which will require a godfather offer that the nets cannot afford. Trae is keeping ATL just under .500. If he wasn't there, they would be a bottom 5 team.

The Nets desperately needs a floor general to keep the offense from going out of control, especially when Bridges is on the bench.

I'd be totally in on Trae if the possibility arose. I think his style and ability, along with some of the supporting cast we already have in place, would be ideal here (defensive issues aside).

IDK if you can do it, but ideally move Ben in the deal. But most likely, Joe, CamT, Patty, plus 3-4 1sts. ???

[Riconet]

No thanks on Trae. Lousy defender and plenty of questions about his attitude. I only want high character guys from now on.

[MGrand15]

I'm not expecting much from Simmons the rest of this year - but despite the frustration with watching him play I'm willing to give him one more year... If he's like this next year, then my optimism that he'll ever regain his form will be significantly diminished if not gone entirely...

Same.

I think people are being unrealistic with Ben. His issues aren't about role or playing time or whatever. His issues are physical.

Maybe the all star break does his body good and he comes back with more explosion. If not, we can't expect much until he gets a full off season of rehab.

[Rich Rane]

Is Ben Simmons single? It's nothing weird. It's just a sexual fantasy of mine.

[Netaman]

No thanks on Trae. Lousy defender and plenty of questions about his attitude. I only want high character guys from now on.

this may sound high on hopium, but if peak Ben Simmons was playing in his philly form, how many total stars under 30 around the league would we rather have than him? would there be 10 on that list? sga, doncic, tatum, jokic, mitchell, garland, booker, giannis, ja, bam, brown?

now consider his contract ends in 2025 which is the next big FA summer. and that he's already here. and he's still only 26.

im 100% with you that from now on they should only go after guys with high character in the first place, but since he's already here i think giving him a real chance to play on the ball as a starter is an obvious decision they need to make. it's going to be really hard to get rid of him if they dont do that.

honestly they should bring back atkinson in a player development role exclusively to work with him.

[gigantes]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.

1625305857981390848

Smfh I really hope its the back injury thats stopping him from being that guy again. Where closing into the time(12-18 months) were most people heal from from it. If that Ben returns we can be back to contending with just one more piece needed.

Seeing as how Ben had the surgery on May 5th, we're only nine months in to his recovery.

From what I've read, the prognosis for LDH is generally favorable for modern NBA athletes, altho the back ends of their careers may be cut short.

If a miracle were to somehow happen, and Nets fans were to discover a level of patience equal to the severity of Simmons' health situation, then they might just find that by early next season, the dude looked significantly better, with regained confidence.

It's like 90% of fans here never had a significant injury, and never heard or read about the various ways it can screw with a person's self-confidence in their body, until they eventually feel like they can perform without having to protect themselves from reinjury.

[Papi_swav]

No thanks on Trae. Lousy defender and plenty of questions about his attitude. I only want high character guys from now on.

Exactly, dude is another one of these spoiled entitled athletes in the making, I guess our fan base still don't learn. And hes not even that good. Dude is shooting 41% from the field and 32% from 3 ewww . And it looks like he can't work well with other stars too like Murray. He's a stat padder that had one good year. Next

[Papi_swav]

I got my sights on bigger fish than Mitchell. Tatum, Ingram, Giannis.

In what world is Ingram a bigger fish than Mitchell? I don't see Tatum or Giannis leaving their teams, but over 30 Giannis would worry me a bit as a big guy whose game is predicated on his athleticism & physicality.

Mitchell is a beast but I like my wing players with size on them. Ingram is KD esque, Mitchell is great but he's very undersized . I think I'll take Giannis at 30 over Mitchell

[Riconet]

this may sound high on hopium, but if peak Ben Simmons was playing in his philly form, how many total stars under 30 around the league would we rather have than him? would there be 10 on that list? sga, doncic, tatum, jokic, mitchell, garland, booker, giannis, ja, bam, brown?

now consider his contract ends in 2025 which is the next big FA summer. and that he's already here. and he's still only 26.

im 100% with you that from now on they should only go after guys with high character in the first place, but since he's already here i think giving him a real chance to play on the ball as a starter is an obvious decision they need to make. it's going to be really hard to get rid of him if they dont do that.

honestly they should bring back atkinson in a player development role exclusively to work with him.

Well, sure, but that is an enormous "if."

I would be thrilled if Ben's problems were all about his injury, time to rehab, lost confidence, etc -- i.e. if they were all fixable. I just don't think that is the case though. I think he doesn't love playing basketball and he doesn't burn to win. I think he feels like it's all a big chore, and he just wants to collect his checks and go out clubbing. And that's not fixable.

Of course, I could be completely out to lunch on this, and I hope I am. We'll have a good chunk of games after the ASG, with plenty of time for Ben to spend with a high-character group of guys. Ben will get plenty of opportunities, both on and off the court. If they don't pay someone to take him this summer, it will likely be because they think he's salvageable. (But it could also be because the price for someone to take his contract is just too high.)

We'll see.

[Netaman]

this may sound high on hopium, but if peak Ben Simmons was playing in his philly form, how many total stars under 30 around the league would we rather have than him? would there be 10 on that list? sga, doncic, tatum, jokic, mitchell, garland, booker, giannis, ja, bam, brown?

now consider his contract ends in 2025 which is the next big FA summer. and that he's already here. and he's still only 26.

im 100% with you that from now on they should only go after guys with high character in the first place, but since he's already here i think giving him a real chance to play on the ball as a starter is an obvious decision they need to make. it's going to be really hard to get rid of him if they dont do that.

honestly they should bring back atkinson in a player development role exclusively to work with him.

Well, sure, but that is an enormous "if."

I would be thrilled if Ben's problems were all about his injury, time to rehab, lost confidence, etc -- i.e. if they were all fixable. I just don't think that is the case though. I think he doesn't love playing basketball and he doesn't burn to win. I think he feels like it's all a big chore, and he just wants to collect his checks and go out clubbing. And that's not fixable.

Of course, I could be completely out to lunch on this, and I hope I am. We'll have a good chunk of games after the ASG, with plenty of time for Ben to spend with a high-character group of guys. Ben will get plenty of opportunities, both on and off the court. If they don't pay someone to take him this summer, it will likely be because they think he's salvageable. (But it could also be because the price for someone to take his contract is just too high.)

We'll see.

the odds are against it and i wouldn't bet on him but the org has nothing to lose giving him the opportunity. if they think he's a negative influence and can dump him off reasonably this summer by all means, but until then may as well roll the dice on upside bc there's currently no downisde.

[Minnamaker]

I don't think assuming his back injury is the main problem is such a big reach. It's easy to say he isn't willing to score because he doesn't want to go to the freethrough line, but it could easily be his physical limitation, too. It's clear that he does not want to play as physical as he used to. Obviously you see that when he drives to the basket, or rather avoids driving to the basket. But IMO you can see it on defense too. I think he uses his hands too much which results in silly fouls. He doesn't draw offensive fouls. While he has to bump with opposing bigs, I think he shies away from some sort of contact. He is not as impactful defensively as he used to be. A back injury could easily be the reason. On the other hand, him not caring about basketball would also explain a lot. Only time will tell.

[MrDollarBills]

Is Ben Simmons single? It's nothing weird. It's just a sexual fantasy of mine.

I'm glad that Iverson Armband felt comfortable enough to share this with us here on the Nets forum. This is a safe space my man, no judgment here.

[Riconet]

the odds are against it and i wouldn't bet on him but the org has nothing to lose giving him the opportunity. if they think he's a negative influence and can dump him off reasonably this summer by all means, but until then may as well roll the dice on upside bc there's currently no downisde.

This is an interesting question and it kinda goes back to where the Nets are right now as a franchise and what their plan is. It sounds like you think they should use the rest of this season to figure out what they have in Simmons, the new additions and maybe Cam T so they have as much info as possible to base their decisions on for offseason moves and future plans -- and this info-gathering is more important than winning as much as possible this season.

You could certainly be right about that (if that is indeed your view -- I don't mean to put words in your mouth), but I think, and hope, that their plan is to win as much as possible this season, including in the playoffs, even though they know they don't have a realistic chance of winning the EC.

I think their plan is pretty much to repeat the first Marks rebuild -- i.e. to build a winner with a strong culture, good coaching, good support systems, team depth, a fun style of play -- so that the next time a major star becomes available, which happens on the regular, the Nets will present an attractive situation. I also think they are pretty close to being there already, and if they finish strong and win a round in the playoffs, they'll be there. The Nets are currently in 5th place in the EC, 2.5 games behind Cleveland at #4 and 2 games ahead of the Knicks at #6. Cleveland hasn't won a playoff series since 2018, and hasn't won one without Lebron since 1993. Cleveland would likely beat the Nets in a playoff series, but it would be pretty close and the Nets could win.

OTOH, turning the last couple of months of the season into a training camp for Simmons, having him fail and look miserable, and the team falling into the play-in and getting bounced would destroy what I think they are trying to accomplish.

We'll see.

[Netaman]

the odds are against it and i wouldn't bet on him but the org has nothing to lose giving him the opportunity. if they think he's a negative influence and can dump him off reasonably this summer by all means, but until then may as well roll the dice on upside bc there's currently no downisde.

This is an interesting question and it kinda goes back to where the Nets are right now as a franchise and what their plan is. It sounds like you think they should use the rest of this season to figure out what they have in Simmons, the new additions and maybe Cam T so they have as much info as possible to base their decisions on for offseason moves and future plans -- and this info-gathering is more important than winning as much as possible this season.

You could certainly be right about that (if that is indeed your view -- I don't mean to put words in your mouth), but I think, and hope, that their plan is to win as much as possible this season, including in the playoffs, even though they know they don't have a realistic chance of winning the EC.

I think their plan is pretty much to repeat the first Marks rebuild -- i.e. to build a winner with a strong culture, good coaching, good support systems, team depth, a fun style of play -- so that the next time a major star becomes available, which happens on the regular, the Nets will present an attractive situation. I also think they are pretty close to being there already, and if they finish strong and win a round in the playoffs, they'll be there. The Nets are currently in 5th place in the EC, 2.5 games behind Cleveland at #4 and 2 games ahead of the Knicks at #6. Cleveland hasn't won a playoff series since 2018, and hasn't won one without Lebron since 1993. Cleveland would likely beat the Nets in a playoff series, but it would be pretty close and the Nets could win.

OTOH, turning the last couple of months of the season into a training camp for Simmons, having him fail and look miserable, and the team falling into the play-in and getting bounced would destroy what I think they are trying to accomplish.

We'll see.

remember when they acquired d lo he wasn't considered a strong cultural building block. he was a black sheep to LAL and trending bust. I am all for competing for the playoffs and trying to win but you need talent to win so there is always going to be a balance between indulging talented players who aren't perfect cultural fits.

with simmons, he plays good d and he's unselfish. so on the court he is a cultural fit and im not sure anyone would question that in terms of pure talent he's got the most on the team. off the court he clearly has issues but it's impossible for us to say what they are from the outside.

im also not saying they need to give him a full 2 months to fail over and again if that's what happens. but if i were JV id tell him to rest up during the break because his increased engagement the last few games has earned him the starting spot at his normal position on the ball and 30+ mpg for a couple weeks.

[Tha King]

the odds are against it and i wouldn't bet on him but the org has nothing to lose giving him the opportunity. if they think he's a negative influence and can dump him off reasonably this summer by all means, but until then may as well roll the dice on upside bc there's currently no downisde.

This is an interesting question and it kinda goes back to where the Nets are right now as a franchise and what their plan is. It sounds like you think they should use the rest of this season to figure out what they have in Simmons, the new additions and maybe Cam T so they have as much info as possible to base their decisions on for offseason moves and future plans -- and this info-gathering is more important than winning as much as possible this season.

You could certainly be right about that (if that is indeed your view -- I don't mean to put words in your mouth), but I think, and hope, that their plan is to win as much as possible this season, including in the playoffs, even though they know they don't have a realistic chance of winning the EC.

I think their plan is pretty much to repeat the first Marks rebuild -- i.e. to build a winner with a strong culture, good coaching, good support systems, team depth, a fun style of play -- so that the next time a major star becomes available, which happens on the regular, the Nets will present an attractive situation. I also think they are pretty close to being there already, and if they finish strong and win a round in the playoffs, they'll be there. The Nets are currently in 5th place in the EC, 2.5 games behind Cleveland at #4 and 2 games ahead of the Knicks at #6. Cleveland hasn't won a playoff series since 2018, and hasn't won one without Lebron since 1993. Cleveland would likely beat the Nets in a playoff series, but it would be pretty close and the Nets could win.

OTOH, turning the last couple of months of the season into a training camp for Simmons, having him fail and look miserable, and the team falling into the play-in and getting bounced would destroy what I think they are trying to accomplish.

We'll see.

The Knicks game was not good but Simmons had been playing a bit better off the bench before that. He was better against the Heat as well. I think Simmons could look completely different next year with a full offseason and being further removed from the injury but for this season, from what he's shown so far, he is a limited minutes bench player and that's how we need to look at him. Within that context, I think his defense and playmaking could still help the team in a limited role.

For the team overall, I am still in a wait and see mode but there is a version that could be very competitive in the playoffs.

It will require Bridges being AS caliber which he just might be. Very surprised with how he has played on the ball so far - he was cooking Butler in ISO and making passes I didn't think he had in his bag.

It will also require Thomas being the scorer he is but also helping the team in other ways to elevate his game above Dinwiddie and become the 'fifth starter' (doesn't necessarily have to start).

And finally, Claxton continues to play at the level he's shown so far. He does need some help though. He's the most important player on the team now and needs a back up to limit his minutes some in the RS. Sharpe is not ready and Simmons as a back up center is matchup dependent.

If that happens there is enough defense and depth on this team to compete in the playoffs.

[Tha King]

the odds are against it and i wouldn't bet on him but the org has nothing to lose giving him the opportunity. if they think he's a negative influence and can dump him off reasonably this summer by all means, but until then may as well roll the dice on upside bc there's currently no downisde.

This is an interesting question and it kinda goes back to where the Nets are right now as a franchise and what their plan is. It sounds like you think they should use the rest of this season to figure out what they have in Simmons, the new additions and maybe Cam T so they have as much info as possible to base their decisions on for offseason moves and future plans -- and this info-gathering is more important than winning as much as possible this season.

You could certainly be right about that (if that is indeed your view -- I don't mean to put words in your mouth), but I think, and hope, that their plan is to win as much as possible this season, including in the playoffs, even though they know they don't have a realistic chance of winning the EC.

I think their plan is pretty much to repeat the first Marks rebuild -- i.e. to build a winner with a strong culture, good coaching, good support systems, team depth, a fun style of play -- so that the next time a major star becomes available, which happens on the regular, the Nets will present an attractive situation. I also think they are pretty close to being there already, and if they finish strong and win a round in the playoffs, they'll be there. The Nets are currently in 5th place in the EC, 2.5 games behind Cleveland at #4 and 2 games ahead of the Knicks at #6. Cleveland hasn't won a playoff series since 2018, and hasn't won one without Lebron since 1993. Cleveland would likely beat the Nets in a playoff series, but it would be pretty close and the Nets could win.

OTOH, turning the last couple of months of the season into a training camp for Simmons, having him fail and look miserable, and the team falling into the play-in and getting bounced would destroy what I think they are trying to accomplish.

We'll see.

remember when they acquired d lo he wasn't considered a strong cultural building block. he was a black sheep to LAL and trending bust. I am all for competing for the playoffs and trying to win but you need talent to win so there is always going to be a balance between indulging talented players who aren't perfect cultural fits.

with simmons, he plays good d and he's unselfish. so on the court he is a cultural fit and im not sure anyone would question that in terms of pure talent he's got the most on the team. off the court he clearly has issues but it's impossible for us to say what they are from the outside.

im also not saying they need to give him a full 2 months to fail over and again if that's what happens. but if i were JV id tell him to rest up during the break because his increased engagement the last few games has earned him the starting spot at his normal position on the ball and 30+ mpg for a couple weeks.

I don't think Simmons is more talented than Claxton. Would also say Bridges from what he's shown so far on the Nets.

While the best version of Simmons brings playmaking he also always limited an offense as a guard without the basic requisite skillset. From a talent standpoint, the expectation with him was the jumper would come along but obviously that hasn't happened.

[Netaman]

I don't think Simmons is more talented than Claxton. Would also say Bridges from what he's shown so far on the Nets.

While the best version of Simmons brings playmaking he also always limited an offense as a guard without the basic requisite skillset. From a talent standpoint, the expectation with him was the jumper would come along but obviously that hasn't happened.

not impossible but i'd bet against bridges or clax getting 3x all star appearances simmons already has or ever getting 1st or 2nd team all nba (simmons was voted 3rd team in 2020).