Big Lillard/POR Debate - Please vote

[Netaman]

We would be getting Dame to pair with Bridges and CJ. Simmons becomes the main piece to deal.

According to a close Dame contact I was chatting with is Dame only has interest in going to Nets if it's to play with both Bridges and Simmons.
Also he has interest in other teams , but again it's about who those teams keep onboard to pair with him.
Doesn't want to be in a super team just a competitive top 4ish conference team.
Is also very happy to stay with Portland if nothing eventuates.

See this is what always makes me question star player opinion.

Play with Bridges? Absolutely. Could be Paul George in the making, worst case he’s a stud 18/6/3 picture perfect third option just coming into his prime and barely needs the ball in his hands.

But that he requires Simmons? I get it in theory. He’s thinking Simmons at the 4 or 5, ultimate gadget player, top defender, run the second unit when Dame goes to the bench, gets out in transition or can point the break himself, frees up Dame in the half court to get open off ball, on action.

But that’s on paper. What we’ve seen from Ben, both his body physically and his mindset, dedication and love for the game, and his toughness and aggressiveness which you absolutely need at this level even if you’re “just” a Dray Green, prime Horford, Tony Allen level role player star, it just ain’t it.

Let alone his complete lack of shooting. It’s not even that he’s a bad shooter like prime Andre Miller, or Shaun Livingston. He won’t even try to improve and refuses to take open shots even when he has the confidence and green light from the coaching staff. He passes out of layups for Christ’s sake and I’m talking frequently, not even the over dramatized example from the playoffs years ago.

I just don’t get it.

All that said, if Ben somehow helps get Dame here at a fair asset cost, so be it.

If we keep a majority of the important picks(Dallas and Phoenix ones way in the future) and get to be legit competitive now while having cap flexibility, I’m all for it.

These last couple seasons have shown us there is some legit parity in the NBA right now.

the way MPJ and some others have defended ben (reddick), I think there is probably a chunk of the league that's sympathetic to him - specifically players who have been injured and crapped on relentlessly because of injuries.

they all know how good he was once upon a time and that he probably didnt willingly choose his current adventure even if his own actions contributed to it.

prime ben simmons with this version of bridges and dame is probably a legitimate contender and in this east who knows? prime ben was an easy call over jimmy and a real tatum rival, add in lillard as the main guy, bridges as your 3rd guy on wing, and clax/cj as elite role players and you are looking at a really good roster that balances out dame's game almost perfectly in theory.

all that said i dont really see the lillard thing happening. if it does i think it would have to be lillard telling portland he wants the nets and a very similar 1 team only negotiation like kd/suns where nets have to pay a pretty big price (that likely starts with all the kd picks). id almost definitely do that but i just dont see portland going down that road unless they have to. i think it's a lot more likely they do a siakam deal and take another 2-4 year run at things.

[Tha King]

Lastly I’d like to comeback and address my past thoughts on Bridges, clarify my stance on him.

I love Bridges, always have. Supercharged Kerry Kittles. If it looks for sure like he’s remaining here I’m going to cop an authentic Mikal jersey.

He is already an outstanding player with a great attitude. A true leader type. Plays both ends, great length, athleticism, high bbiq, effective with low usage, super diverse all around game and he has the rare distinction of still having a crazy high remaining ceiling at his age. Great contract. Semi-local guy and shined on the big stage of the big city.

I’m not an advocate for trading him as an overall thought. Even thinking about it again specifically to the 3rd pick with Sharpe and a future 1st with light protection, I’d have pause. Earlier I said you 110% had to, the more I think about it, the more I’d retract that and say I wouldn’t be mad if Marks pulled off that trade, but I’m not nearly as adamant that you need to.

With Bridges I don't think he has the requisite playmaking or ball handling skillsets to be a primary (1 or 2) perimeter option on a championship contender. Not sure that's something that can come along at the point he's at in his career. He's an elite 3rd option type though which would also allow him to focus more on defense.

When you factor his counting stats on the team will probably be very difficult for him to maintain (26ppg on 61% TS) and his contract, his trade value right now might be as high as it ever will be. I think I'd absolutely look to see what's out there for him.

[vincecarter4pres]

According to a close Dame contact I was chatting with is Dame only has interest in going to Nets if it's to play with both Bridges and Simmons.
Also he has interest in other teams , but again it's about who those teams keep onboard to pair with him.
Doesn't want to be in a super team just a competitive top 4ish conference team.
Is also very happy to stay with Portland if nothing eventuates.

See this is what always makes me question star player opinion.

Play with Bridges? Absolutely. Could be Paul George in the making, worst case he’s a stud 18/6/3 picture perfect third option just coming into his prime and barely needs the ball in his hands.

But that he requires Simmons? I get it in theory. He’s thinking Simmons at the 4 or 5, ultimate gadget player, top defender, run the second unit when Dame goes to the bench, gets out in transition or can point the break himself, frees up Dame in the half court to get open off ball, on action.

But that’s on paper. What we’ve seen from Ben, both his body physically and his mindset, dedication and love for the game, and his toughness and aggressiveness which you absolutely need at this level even if you’re “just” a Dray Green, prime Horford, Tony Allen level role player star, it just ain’t it.

Let alone his complete lack of shooting. It’s not even that he’s a bad shooter like prime Andre Miller, or Shaun Livingston. He won’t even try to improve and refuses to take open shots even when he has the confidence and green light from the coaching staff. He passes out of layups for Christ’s sake and I’m talking frequently, not even the over dramatized example from the playoffs years ago.

I just don’t get it.

All that said, if Ben somehow helps get Dame here at a fair asset cost, so be it.

If we keep a majority of the important picks(Dallas and Phoenix ones way in the future) and get to be legit competitive now while having cap flexibility, I’m all for it.

These last couple seasons have shown us there is some legit parity in the NBA right now.

the way MPJ and some others have defended ben (reddick), I think there is probably a chunk of the league that's sympathetic to him - specifically players who have been injured and crapped on relentlessly because of injuries.

they all know how good he was once upon a time and that he probably didnt willingly choose his current adventure even if his own actions contributed to it.

prime ben simmons with this version of bridges and dame is probably a legitimate contender and in this east who knows? prime ben was an easy call over jimmy and a real tatum rival, add in lillard as the main guy, bridges as your 3rd guy on wing, and clax/cj as elite role players and you are looking at a really good roster that balances out dame's game almost perfectly in theory.

all that said i dont really see the lillard thing happening. if it does i think it would have to be lillard telling portland he wants the nets and a very similar 1 team only negotiation like kd/suns where nets have to pay a pretty big price (that likely starts with all the kd picks). id almost definitely do that but i just dont see portland going down that road unless they have to. i think it's a lot more likely they do a siakam deal and take another 2-4 year run at things.

Wait prime Ben was an easy call over Jimmy Butler? Over Tatum? No way. That was another in a long line of examples of how Philly was managed quite poorly overall after Heincke.

And if Lillard costs more than even half the Suns picks I’d easily pass. Better off trying to land FVV for both picks this year and Dinwiddie to a third team and a 3rd first from said team to Toronto.

One of those later Suns picks is going to be top 7, likely when we won’t even “need” a top pick.

Lillard is too old, too injured and too expensive to dish out blue chip assets like candy to acquire.

But I’m not naive and so I know there’s a chance of it happening even if it costs the farm. Personally hope I’m wrong though.

You’re giving up all those premium assets, you need to bring back a Giannis, LaMelo Ball, Doncic, Morant(if the case is overblown), Darius Garland, SGA, Jamal Murray, literally and specifically, as unlikely as any of those guys are. If not you sit on those main assets, make smaller cost effective moves and wait to pounce on one of them when they are on the block, or strike gold in a future draft with one of said picks and add a budding future superstar to a prime core.

You add a FVV, or Beal, or Spicy P, or a Trae Young or KAT, at a reasonable in relation to situation, but not all-in asset-cost, if none of those specific guys above are available.

[Netaman]

Lastly I’d like to comeback and address my past thoughts on Bridges, clarify my stance on him.

I love Bridges, always have. Supercharged Kerry Kittles. If it looks for sure like he’s remaining here I’m going to cop an authentic Mikal jersey.

He is already an outstanding player with a great attitude. A true leader type. Plays both ends, great length, athleticism, high bbiq, effective with low usage, super diverse all around game and he has the rare distinction of still having a crazy high remaining ceiling at his age. Great contract. Semi-local guy and shined on the big stage of the big city.

I’m not an advocate for trading him as an overall thought. Even thinking about it again specifically to the 3rd pick with Sharpe and a future 1st with light protection, I’d have pause. Earlier I said you 110% had to, the more I think about it, the more I’d retract that and say I wouldn’t be mad if Marks pulled off that trade, but I’m not nearly as adamant that you need to.

With Bridges I don't think he has the requisite playmaking or ball handling skillsets to be a primary (1 or 2) perimeter option on a championship contender. Not sure that's something that can come along at the point he's at in his career. He's an elite 3rd option type though which would also allow him to focus more on defense.

When you factor his counting stats on the team will probably be very difficult for him to maintain (26ppg on 61% TS) and his contract, his trade value right now might be as high as it ever will be. I think I'd absolutely look to see what's out there for him.

i see bridges pretty clearly as kris middleton.

there's a double sided mirror with that - middleton was the glue #2 on a championship team, but the #1 was a unicorn.

considering the age and contract i think logically the only way you can move a value #2 like bridges is if you are getting something that you think has the upside of being a #1. if they love scoot and he's on the clock at #3 that could qualify, but a basket of futures doesn't. if you trade him for anything less than a guy who wins ROY and starts from day 1 it's a mistake.

im not sure a straight up deal for scottie barnes would even be that productive right now. barnes is probably going to get paid more than bridges pretty soon and whether or not his shooting ever improves enough is a very open question. banchero is probably just as debateable. either one just as easily becomes the next aaron gordon and not the next jason tatum.

[vincecarter4pres]

Lastly I’d like to comeback and address my past thoughts on Bridges, clarify my stance on him.

I love Bridges, always have. Supercharged Kerry Kittles. If it looks for sure like he’s remaining here I’m going to cop an authentic Mikal jersey.

He is already an outstanding player with a great attitude. A true leader type. Plays both ends, great length, athleticism, high bbiq, effective with low usage, super diverse all around game and he has the rare distinction of still having a crazy high remaining ceiling at his age. Great contract. Semi-local guy and shined on the big stage of the big city.

I’m not an advocate for trading him as an overall thought. Even thinking about it again specifically to the 3rd pick with Sharpe and a future 1st with light protection, I’d have pause. Earlier I said you 110% had to, the more I think about it, the more I’d retract that and say I wouldn’t be mad if Marks pulled off that trade, but I’m not nearly as adamant that you need to.

With Bridges I don't think he has the requisite playmaking or ball handling skillsets to be a primary (1 or 2) perimeter option on a championship contender. Not sure that's something that can come along at the point he's at in his career. He's an elite 3rd option type though which would also allow him to focus more on defense.

When you factor his counting stats on the team will probably be very difficult for him to maintain (26ppg on 61% TS) and his contract, his trade value right now might be as high as it ever will be. I think I'd absolutely look to see what's out there for him.

Agree with most all of this and yes, that’s why I would see what the market offers for him in 3 weeks as well.

If Scoot will be there at 3 and you’re really getting Sharpe and a future 1st as well(‘24 pick having some right to defer option on our end), I do still feel you probably have to make that move. I’m just not as adamant about it.

You also have to listen to other offers, especially Memphis if they’re willing to offer a number of unprotected picks, with the whole Ja situation.

[Tha King]

Lastly I’d like to comeback and address my past thoughts on Bridges, clarify my stance on him.

I love Bridges, always have. Supercharged Kerry Kittles. If it looks for sure like he’s remaining here I’m going to cop an authentic Mikal jersey.

He is already an outstanding player with a great attitude. A true leader type. Plays both ends, great length, athleticism, high bbiq, effective with low usage, super diverse all around game and he has the rare distinction of still having a crazy high remaining ceiling at his age. Great contract. Semi-local guy and shined on the big stage of the big city.

I’m not an advocate for trading him as an overall thought. Even thinking about it again specifically to the 3rd pick with Sharpe and a future 1st with light protection, I’d have pause. Earlier I said you 110% had to, the more I think about it, the more I’d retract that and say I wouldn’t be mad if Marks pulled off that trade, but I’m not nearly as adamant that you need to.

With Bridges I don't think he has the requisite playmaking or ball handling skillsets to be a primary (1 or 2) perimeter option on a championship contender. Not sure that's something that can come along at the point he's at in his career. He's an elite 3rd option type though which would also allow him to focus more on defense.

When you factor his counting stats on the team will probably be very difficult for him to maintain (26ppg on 61% TS) and his contract, his trade value right now might be as high as it ever will be. I think I'd absolutely look to see what's out there for him.

i see bridges pretty clearly as kris middleton.

there's a double sided mirror with that - middleton was the glue #2 on a championship team, but the #1 was a unicorn.

considering the age and contract i think logically the only way you can move a value #2 like bridges is if you are getting something that you think has the upside of being a #1. if they love scoot and he's on the clock at #3 that could qualify, but a basket of futures doesn't. if you trade him for anything less than a guy who wins ROY and starts from day 1 it's a mistake.

im not sure a straight up deal for scottie barnes would even be that productive right now. barnes is probably going to get paid more than bridges pretty soon and whether or not his shooting ever improves enough is a very open question. banchero is probably just as debateable. either one just as easily becomes the next aaron gordon and not the next jason tatum.

Middleton comes to mind as well but he reached a level as a ball handler and playmaker Bridges has yet to show.

I agree on getting the requisite value for him but maybe this offseason that could happen. His contract will allow teams looking to contend to not only add him but still have flexibility to add more ,which only adds to his value.

[Stone]

I want no part of Lillard, at least not with his contract and what it will cost us. I believe we should build players 3 through 7 and make this a situation that a 1 or a 2 would want to be a part of. I question if Dame really wants to be here or if its all blowing smoke.

Probably should give Ben one more season to see if his back is toast or if he can get bak to where he was. It is really tough to read Ben, he doesn't say much and I believe that is part of the reason the so called pundits unload on him.

[Netaman]

With Bridges I don't think he has the requisite playmaking or ball handling skillsets to be a primary (1 or 2) perimeter option on a championship contender. Not sure that's something that can come along at the point he's at in his career. He's an elite 3rd option type though which would also allow him to focus more on defense.

When you factor his counting stats on the team will probably be very difficult for him to maintain (26ppg on 61% TS) and his contract, his trade value right now might be as high as it ever will be. I think I'd absolutely look to see what's out there for him.

i see bridges pretty clearly as kris middleton.

there's a double sided mirror with that - middleton was the glue #2 on a championship team, but the #1 was a unicorn.

considering the age and contract i think logically the only way you can move a value #2 like bridges is if you are getting something that you think has the upside of being a #1. if they love scoot and he's on the clock at #3 that could qualify, but a basket of futures doesn't. if you trade him for anything less than a guy who wins ROY and starts from day 1 it's a mistake.

im not sure a straight up deal for scottie barnes would even be that productive right now. barnes is probably going to get paid more than bridges pretty soon and whether or not his shooting ever improves enough is a very open question. banchero is probably just as debateable. either one just as easily becomes the next aaron gordon and not the next jason tatum.

Middleton comes to mind as well but he reached a level as a ball handler and playmaker Bridges has yet to show.

I agree on getting the requisite value for him but maybe this offseason that could happen. His contract will allow teams looking to contend to not only add him but still have flexibility to add more ,which only adds to his value.

idk i thought the ball handling he showed as a net was right there with KM. their career arcs are really similar too. im not saying he's all the way there yet or will get there, no way to know that until he starts dropping tough shots in meaningful games, but that's to me the fairest baseline. not impossible he exceeds it since he's probably a little more athletic, also not impossible he falls a little short.

[vincecarter4pres]

I still see a lot more Kerry Kittles than Khris Middleton, stylistically. I don’t think that is perfect comparison by any means either, but still closer. Eddie Jones is a decent comparison too.

[tester551]

Both of these trade proposals are heavily slanted in the Nets favor. I don't think Portland would agree to either one.

[JKiddy]

Both of these trade proposals are heavily slanted in the Nets favor. I don't think Portland would agree to either one.

I understand your perspective.

Option 2 is the only valid option for the Nets to consider even taking a call on Bridges.

Option 1 is only in place if Lillard forced his way to BK.

Option 2 is much more realistic than Option 1 and I know that.

Option 1 has two major obstacle that would have to occur if

1. Lillard truly wanted to make a play out of POR and to contend in a different conference
2. POR was ready to rebuild fast with picks, expirings, and cash

[vincecarter4pres]

Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11.

DFS/22 for Moody/Gary Payton II/19.

11/21 for 8 or 9.

9/19/‘25 BK 1st/‘27 PHI 1st/Clax/Ben Simmons/Cam T/Joe Harris for Lillard/Nurkic.

[Netaman]

Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11.

DFS/22 for Moody/Gary Payton II/19.

11/21 for 8 or 9.

9/19/‘25 BK 1st/‘27 PHI 1st/Clax/Ben Simmons/Cam T/Joe Harris for Lillard/Nurkic.

Portland getting a package around Herro and a bunch of other picks seems too obvious, especially if that's Dame's preference.

[Paradise]

Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11.

DFS/22 for Moody/Gary Payton II/19.

11/21 for 8 or 9.

9/19/‘25 BK 1st/‘27 PHI 1st/Clax/Ben Simmons/Cam T/Joe Harris for Lillard/Nurkic.

Portland getting a package around Herro and a bunch of other picks seems too obvious, especially if that's Dame's preference.

What other picks? They don’t have salary to match or good picks.

[CalamityX12]

If we can ship Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11th overall, I just keep the pick lol

[Netaman]

Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11.

DFS/22 for Moody/Gary Payton II/19.

11/21 for 8 or 9.

9/19/‘25 BK 1st/‘27 PHI 1st/Clax/Ben Simmons/Cam T/Joe Harris for Lillard/Nurkic.

Portland getting a package around Herro and a bunch of other picks seems too obvious, especially if that's Dame's preference.

What other picks? They don’t have salary to match or good picks.

whatever picks they are allowed to trade. maybe we have more picks than they do but herro is probably a better young asset than anything we'd put on the table and none of our picks are all that great. their 18th pick this year is probably a better pick than any individual pick we own presently. their 2028/2030 picks have just as good of a chance to be good picks as the dallas pick or post-KD phoenix pick.

of Portland trades Dame they already have the 3rd pick this year. they also have #23. no idea how they want to fit together all the pieces but value wise the miami deal is probably better than the nets can offer, even if they make it a 3 team and re-route herro elsewhere.

[Netaman]

If we can ship Dinwiddie to Orlando for the 11th overall, I just keep the pick lol

agreed, especially if they think they replace him with FVV anyway.

[Netaman]

this trade to miami seems like a no-brainer on both ends. Martin and Herro could be converted into extra picks if that's what Portland prefers. lillard, bam, jimmy with spo and the miami ability to develop unknowns is a legit team for a few years with a real championship window. lowry would be on an expiring, who knows what happens with vincent/strus, duncan robinson would still be there.

[vincecarter4pres]

this trade to miami seems like a no-brainer on both ends. Martin and Herro could be converted into extra picks if that's what Portland prefers. lillard, bam, jimmy with spo and the miami ability to develop unknowns is a legit team for a few years with a real championship window. lowry would be on an expiring, who knows what happens with vincent/strus, duncan robinson would still be there.

FYI, don’t believe Miami can trade their 2027 1st unless they remove protections completely from the ‘25 1st owed to OKC.

[vincecarter4pres]

Portland getting a package around Herro and a bunch of other picks seems too obvious, especially if that's Dame's preference.

What other picks? They don’t have salary to match or good picks.

whatever picks they are allowed to trade. maybe we have more picks than they do but herro is probably a better young asset than anything we'd put on the table and none of our picks are all that great. their 18th pick this year is probably a better pick than any individual pick we own presently. their 2028/2030 picks have just as good of a chance to be good picks as the dallas pick or post-KD phoenix pick.

of Portland trades Dame they already have the 3rd pick this year. they also have #23. no idea how they want to fit together all the pieces but value wise the miami deal is probably better than the nets can offer, even if they make it a 3 team and re-route herro elsewhere.

Lolwut?

Like I can get down with the sentiment they have the best current young piece in Herro, no doubt, but you’re just reaching with all this draft pick nonsense here.

We have almost endless unprotected picks and swaps from Phoenix and Dallas until 2029, and a top 8 protected 1st from Philly, all old teams with wildly uncertain futures, it’s almost a lock 2 of those picks wind up top 10.

Now I hope none of those far out picks(‘26 and beyond) are involved in a Dame trade, or at worst but one of them, but the statement that the 18th overall pick is the most valuable of all these and saying none of ours are all that good is just shenanigans.

We honestly have some of the more valuable picks in the league from ‘26-‘29.

I don’t see Miami including their ‘28 or ‘30 picks either tbh.