Official Current Affairs & Politics Thread II

[MrDollarBills]

I'm surprised that they even showed her mug shot.

The young man who was murdered by her:

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[kamaze]

This kind of murder by white cops has always happened and it always will. The only way to stop it is to have people check the police like The black Panthers did.

[gigantes]

EDIT: I think another way to look at it is that American Conservatism made the most sense for a different time and a different world. Notwithstanding the fact that it was always callously exploitative, you could at least see it working for a while. At least, for those it benefited.

Nearly everything about our political system and constitution was made for a different time.

^this. Laid down by rich land and slave owners. The Electoral College needs to be abolished and Senators and Representatives need to have term limits. There is no reason why the fate of this country is in the hands of men ranging from ages 60 to 80 years old.

However, I am wary of a constitutional convention ever occurring in this day and age with so many bad faith actors in government especially in the southern/midwest states.

I don't know if it's moreso terrifying or moreso nauseating, but yeah.

Bad faith actors and the support networks that enable them, like a constituency trying to pretend it's still the 1800's, and corporations allowed to more or less transparently purchase votes. The more I understand it, the more surreal it seems.

Meanwhile, Europe at its best seems so far ahead of the USA in key areas, for example coalition govts, universal health care, and lack of pretext for seemingly every other person owning a gun.

One of the problems, it seems to me, is that bigotry got normalised a long time ago in the USA, and was never forced to change. There was perhaps an opportunity post-Civil War, but the South essentially won the reconstruction era as I understand it. IMO now you have a directly descendant line of thinking proudly proclaiming America as 'incredibly great,' very much oblivious and/or obnoxiously resistant to all the ways America very much wasn't great. Or isn't great.

[gigantes]

EDIT: I think another way to look at it is that American Conservatism made the most sense for a different time and a different world. Notwithstanding the fact that it was always callously exploitative, you could at least see it working for a while. At least, for those it benefited.

Nearly everything about our political system and constitution was made for a different time.

True dat, but at least the constitution is something which could conceivably work in the current age with some tinkering. It's at least a reasonable foundation.

American Conservatism, by contrast, is something which was built on quicksand from the beginning. I think the reason you could get away with it for a while is that you had a unique opportunity to settle across and despoil the choicest areas of an entire continent with barely any resistance. Meanwhile, other nations pretty much endorsed the whole thing. That happens pretty rarely in history from my studies.

But you can't have individuals in the industrial age just doing whatever they want to this degree, with this little government oversight. They'll render the land unusable, which is what's been happening.

Which is why I say I'm not sure there's a single tenet of American Conservatism that actually works, once the free toys run out.

You have to be largely tolerant and respectful of any group of people no matter how dysfunctional their views, but you don't have to pretend they make sense. You don't have to pretend there are 'two sides' to certain issues, and you don't have to give them endless time at the debate table IMO.

[Prokorov]

EDIT: I think another way to look at it is that American Conservatism made the most sense for a different time and a different world. Notwithstanding the fact that it was always callously exploitative, you could at least see it working for a while. At least, for those it benefited.

Nearly everything about our political system and constitution was made for a different time.

True dat, but at least the constitution is something which could conceivably work in the current age with some tinkering. It's at least a reasonable foundation.

American Conservatism, by contrast, is something which was built on quicksand from the beginning. I think the reason you could get away with it for a while is that you had a unique opportunity to settle across and despoil the choicest areas of an entire continent with barely any resistance. Meanwhile, other nations pretty much endorsed the whole thing. That happens pretty rarely in history from my studies.

But you can't have individuals in the industrial age just doing whatever they want to this degree, with this little government oversight. They'll render the land unusable, which is what's been happening.

Which is why I say I'm not sure there's a single tenet of American Conservatism that actually works, once the free toys run out.

You have to be largely tolerant and respectful of any group of people no matter how dysfunctional their views, but you don't have to pretend they make sense. You don't have to pretend there are 'two sides' to certain issues, and you don't have to give them endless time at the debate table IMO.

The constitution is rendered inadequate by the party system and lifelong appointments on the supreme court. Ammending the constitution worked for a while before we became the giant, segregated capitalistic country we are now with such huge wealth disparity and likely the most manipulated constituency weve ever seen.

there is no way we will ever amend the constitution to the benefit of the american people with so much money pumped into the politcial system, such an uneducated(or better, miseducated) group of voters, and a supreme court that isnt going to push through any liberal or social ammendment.

we will never see the second ammendment repealed in our lifetimes. because guns make too much money for too many rich and powerful people, were segrated 50/50 with half that group valuing their gun over human lives and overall a manipulated miseducated group of people and a right slanting supreme court

And it will take a cataclismic event for any of that to change. like a global or domestic financial crisis or nucear holocaust

[MrDollarBills]

As much as I would love to see the United States become more like Canada and Western Europe, the chances aren't that high unless something drastic happens.

I'm with you though...I think the foundation that the "founding fathers" laid down has met its limit.

I mean lets take a look at how there are really no safeguards in place to really prevent the country from becoming an authoritarian autocracy which is happening right now as the rule of law is eroded and truth and moral decency is openly disregarded by the country's leadership. The powers of the Executive Branch become frightening once you have a case where the legislative and judicial branches are both compromised.

And I don't think being uneducated has anything to do with it. Look at the demographics who support what is happening right now. this is fear and conditioned belief that one group of people is superior to others based on something as trivial as skin color. This isn't behavior strictly limited to uneducated southerners. You have pockets here in the Northeast of educated people in segregated wealthy communities that voted overwhelmingly for Trump and will do so again.

[MrDollarBills]

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This isn't looking like manslaughter at all.

[MrDollarBills]

I forgot today was 9/11. My condolences to anyone on the forum who may have lost a loved one that day.

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She's 100% right. call out the hypocrisy. I don't want to hear anything about "how are we going to pay" for Universal healthcare or any other social programs deemed to be too far fetched. More investment into the population and infrastructure, less welfare for the wealthy.

I mean its literally common sense to keep the population healthy and remove the burden of health insurance from employers.

[MrDollarBills]

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Make sure your voter registration is up to date and ready to go.

[gigantes]

@Prokorov,
In a linear history sense, I agree with you, and pretty much agree with all your points.

In a re-imagined sense, I'd like to think the USA's constitution could have been constructed in a more Euro fashion, with less opportunity for money and special interests to inject themselves in to the process. I think it's also worth remembering that the USA was the 'first draft' of democracy in the current age, and was likely to have more flaws than later models.

Even given the USA's likely limitations and flaws, it's possible that history could have swung very differently here and there, for example if Nixon hadn't come along and 1) started up HMO's and 2) brought so much legitimised bigotry in to the regular presidential voting process via the Southern Strategy.

But yeah, as for the end game, civilisations are pretty much designed to collapse under their own weight one day, and this one is pretty obviously headed there. We can't undue most of the damage, but at least we can buy ourselves more time, via things like the midterms and a successful Mueller investigation and a successful followup in penalties / adjustments.

[Prokorov]

@Prokorov,
In a linear history sense, I agree with you, and pretty much agree with all your points.

In a re-imagined sense, I'd like to think the USA's constitution could have been constructed in a more Euro fashion, with less opportunity for money and special interests to inject themselves in to the process. I think it's also worth remembering that the USA was the 'first draft' of democracy in the current age, and was likely to have more flaws than later models.

Even given the USA's likely limitations and flaws, it's possible that history could have swung very differently here and there, for example if Nixon hadn't come along and 1) started up HMO's and 2) brought so much legitimised bigotry in to the regular presidential voting process via the Southern Strategy.

But yeah, as for the end game, civilisations are pretty much designed to collapse under their own weight one day, and this one is pretty obviously headed there. We can't undue most of the damage, but at least we can buy ourselves more time, via things like the midterms and a successful Mueller investigation and a successful followup in penalties / adjustments.

we no longer live in a democracy, thats just a facade... we dont as masses get to choose what happens. decisions are bought and sold. if you have money, you can make choices for this country. if you cant, youre out.

[MrDollarBills]

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This is what happens when low information voters continuously vote against their self interests (combined with low Dem voter turnouts during the mid terms and gerrymandering).

I'll hope for the best for that area, but after learning Twitler cut FEMA funds in order to fund his ethnic cleansing campaign at the border, the fallout from this hurricane is not going to end well.

[Prokorov]

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This is what happens when low information voters continuously vote against their self interests (combined with low Dem voter turnouts during the mid terms and gerrymandering).

I'll hope for the best for that area, but after learning Twitler cut FEMA funds in order to fund his ethnic cleansing campaign at the border, the fallout from this hurricane is not going to end well.

the fallout will be non exsistent and swept under the rug. you already have trump tweeting that they will handle north carolina great because the puerto rico disaster was handled so well (despite 3000 dead). everyone ni NC could die and trump would claim a suscessfuly government reponse, and half the country will agree because americans are brain dead and over attached to their party

As far as climate research, it is maybe the most idiotic thing of our lifetimes that climate change has become a political argument.

[MrDollarBills]

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This is what happens when low information voters continuously vote against their self interests (combined with low Dem voter turnouts during the mid terms and gerrymandering).

I'll hope for the best for that area, but after learning Twitler cut FEMA funds in order to fund his ethnic cleansing campaign at the border, the fallout from this hurricane is not going to end well.

the fallout will be non exsistent and swept under the rug. you already have trump tweeting that they will handle north carolina great because the puerto rico disaster was handled so well (despite 3000 dead). everyone ni NC could die and trump would claim a suscessfuly government reponse, and half the country will agree because americans are brain dead and over attached to their party

As far as climate research, it is maybe the most idiotic thing of our lifetimes that climate change has become a political argument.

Trump is only able to get away with Puerto Rico because, despite being American citizens like you and I, Puerto Rico is an island full of brown Spanish speaking people, the same type of people that Trump has routinely dehumanized with his racist rhetoric.

If this storm tears up the predominantly white Carolinas and the response is just as bad as Puerto Rico to where you see images of white americans suffering due to an incompetent response, I don't think that it will be swept under the rug so easily.

Also agreed, I cannot fathom how SCIENCE is a political issue to these people. Anti intellectualism will be the death of this country.


There are prison inmates that are in South Carolina right now that could very well die

http://fortune.com/2018/09/12/south-carolina-prisoners-hurricane-florence/

But at least 650 inmates at the MacDougall Correctional Facility — a Level 2 medium-security prison for men — will not be relocated, VICE News reported. The prison is located in Berkeley county, one of five counties under a mandatory evacuation from the governor. The state has also decided not to evacuate the nearly 1,000 inmates from the Ridgeland Correctional Institution in Jasper County, The State reported.

I don't care for murderers or child abusers, but we all know well that a good % of prisoners are non violent offenders. I read the horror stories of what happened to the prisoners in Louisiana that were left to rot in their cells during Katrina. this is wrong.

[MrDollarBills]

A hurricane is barreling towards the eastern seaboard of the country and this lunatic begins the day with:

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I don't want the secret service showing up at my doorstep, so I'll just say that I have nothing to say other than I hope that this disgusting man reaps everything that he sows.

[Rich Rane]

A hurricane is barreling towards the eastern seaboard of the country and this lunatic begins the day with:

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I don't want the secret service showing up at my doorstep, so I'll just say that I have nothing to say other than I hope that this disgusting man reaps everything that he sows.

How is this different than Alex Jones saying Sandy Hook was done by crisis actors?

[MrDollarBills]

A hurricane is barreling towards the eastern seaboard of the country and this lunatic begins the day with:

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I don't want the secret service showing up at my doorstep, so I'll just say that I have nothing to say other than I hope that this disgusting man reaps everything that he sows.

How is this different than Alex Jones saying Sandy Hook was done by crisis actors?

It's the same damn thing. Sick and inhumane rhetoric.

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The man is subhuman. You have to be completely warped to say something like this.

[gigantes]

we no longer live in a democracy, thats just a facade... we dont as masses get to choose what happens. decisions are bought and sold. if you have money, you can make choices for this country. if you cant, youre out.

IMO that's true to a degree and a cop-out to some degree. In fact, the masses have plenty of power to choose what happens. Each dollar is a vote so to speak, and the way a person spends their time, energies, attention and mindset bundles in to that. Multiply that by 350 million or whatever, and that's a lot of voting power.

In this way, people can and do cause corporations to rise and fall, cause changes in national policy, help politicians to a seat at the table or kick them out... all without even stepping in to a voting booth.

There's truth that we're at the mercy of corporations, but if there's a steaming pile of 'comfortable, suburban liberal bullsh-t', it's that it's a one-way street.

People can be incredibly resourceful and self-sustaining if they want to and disempower corporations and politicians to a significant degree. But that means making some lifestyle and mindset changes, and most people aren't willing to do that. Most people want to have their cake, then complain about the cost of buying it.

[MrDollarBills]

Enjoy prison, traitor:

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Trump can pardon him if he likes, that will back fire on him in a huge way. Also, state charges will be coming which can't be pardoned and any sane man who has to do hard time would rather do it in federal lock up as opposed to the state pen. Which scalp will Mueller claim next?

EDIT:

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Trump is going to have a stroke when he hears this. holy **** I thought this was just a straight up plea deal he's going to snitch

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Just as a reminder, Manafort was in the Trump Tower meeting when he, Jared Kushner, Don Jr etc were meeting with Russian intelligence about "dirt" on Hillary in 2016. He took notes. This is a huge development.

but any day now...Barack Obama will be headed to prison. any day now.

[Rich Rane]

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