Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Keith Van Horn]

Sean Marks mentioned something along the lines of not even really rebuilding, that we don't have to hit reset.
So what does that mean, and what are we going to do this offseason?

Where do you all stand on these things?

#1 Simmons. Move him? Can he be salvaged at all? Pray that he shows up down the stretch and even balls out come playoff time (as long as we make it). What does he get moved for...?

#2 resign Cam Johnson? I'm imaging Marks is happy with getting him and he fits the style of what we're pushing here in Brooklyn. Loved what I saw in the first game, and he and Bridges seem to have a special friendship that maybe entices him to stay as well. He might be a perfect fit next to Claxton in the frontcourt too. Let's see how he plays rest of season too.
He's got to be the biggest name to prioritize right? Only other guys are Seth and Yuta.

#3 is JV long for the job? So far I've liked what I've seen from Vaughn. But will he hold up with the direction we're going? Seems like some of us are pretty divided on him. Can we see how his rotations pan out and late game playcalling goes at least for the rest of the season? Who else is out there anyway?

#4 Sean Marks. Is Marks still going to be with us after this year? I get it, he has to share some of the blame in this whole mess since really, he gave everyone too much power and too much of a voice. Player empowerment backfired badly over the last 3 years and 3 megastar immature dudes didn't have the backbone to find common ground. Everyone wanted to be their own individual so badly. Harden tried at time, and KD probably to some extent. But Kyrie went scorched earth. I blame him for 95% of this mess. And when Marks tried to put him in his place over the last year, it was just too late. Kyrie having his free reign to do whatever he wanted was seen as "bad stuff behind the scenes" LOLOLOL

With that said... I still trust Marks' evaluating skills, drafting ability, team building ability, and I think he's learned greatly from all of this. Personally, I'm fine keeping him on board for now.

#5 Trade for a star? Do we make a splash big push for a star player? Will history repeat itself? We certainly have the assets to do so I think. I'd be interested in kicking the tires on and maybe shooting for the stars with guys like Trae Young, KAT, and Siakam. To a lesser extent, maybe Lillard or Beal.

I've seen the whole "need a homegrown star before you bring in another star" argument floating around lately too (Wade was there before Lebron came, Pierce was there before KG and Allen, Curry and Klay were there before KD, Siakam was there before Leonard... etc.). It's an interesting argument, bc I don't think guys like Clax or Thomas qualify as stars.

Maybe the next big swing we make is for an early lotto pick and avoid the big names all together??

Thoughts?

[Netaman]

1 I'd bet they are going to try to move him. with 2 years left on his contract that won't be easy but it may be doable if they are taking back a bigger contract or including picks as part of a package.

2 extending him is most likely, BUT if a team offered a top 10 pick for OG last year I could see CJ having value at the draft that could make him the lead piece (plus one of the 20's picks) in a package for a top 10 pick. if marks has his eye on someone. i think they'd rather execute the trade up strategy with picks and a spare part like DFS or Oneale - which could be doable.

3&4 i think they are back for next year at least.

5 this comes down to whether or not a star becomes available. most of them obviously become available bc of contract disputes. the nets have the matching salary, spare pieces, and picks to pull off a donovan mitchell or dejounte murray type of trade. will that type of player be available though? i dont see them going big on KAT type but who knows.

so my prediction is that there isn't a star who fits perfectly so they decide to avoid that drama and use assets to move up in the draft for someone. marks/vaughn keep building a more talented/defensively oriented group than the atkinson teams.

they could still swap simmons for someone with a big salary but if they do i think it would be more of a joe johnson type trade for someone else's overpaid guy like john collins or vucevic or hayward.

[TheNetsFan]

1) Simmons: Ride out his contract until he expires or he can return value. At worst, after next season he becomes an expiring contract that's easily moved.

2) Cam Johnson: It all depends on what his contract looks like. He seems to get banged up quite a bit. Can we lock him up at 4yr, $70-$75mil? If so, do it. If he's going to cost more, I hesitate to commit that kind of money, especially with Mikal & DFS locked up long-term. Is he a sign & trade asset? Quite possibly.

3) Vaughn: No. He's a nice guy, but a mediocre coach. I think we need to find better. Snyder, Udoka & Atkinson would top my list.

4) Marks: If he wants back, he should be back. Hopefully Tsai has learned to stay out of basketball business & leave everything to Marks. His post-KD trade comment of "The last time I took over" seems to indicate that he was hamstring by Tsai & the stars, but expects to be given free reign to rebuild.

5) I think we'll always be star hunting. The question is whether we wait until we have cap space & try to make a splash in free agency, or do we strike early with picks? There's a couple flavors of star I can see the Nets pursuing. The locked up younger star you go all in on (KAT, Trae, etc.), the older star on a short deal that won't impact 2025 cap space (e.g. DeRozan) or the '24 or '25 free agent (Mitchell, Brown, Ingram, etc.)

[Keith Van Horn]

What I don't want to see happen is them to trade Simmons for the sake of trading him for another bloated contract. I'd rather keep him and work on him as a reclamation project while we have no pressure of KD and Kyrie sh** lingering over us. He's still young enough, and he's shown what he can do in his first couple of years in the league.

And maybe if teams see that we're not trading him for just anything, maybe his value sees a slight bump? Like "what do the Nets know about him that we don't?" IDK, I'm stretching on that one lol. It's just that he's making soooo much money!

CJ has to stay healthy too. One of my best friends, who's a Suns fan, says that was one of his biggest knocks.

Would love to see starting rotation of Dinwiddie / _____ / Bridges / CJ / Claxton today and moving forward. Give him and Bridges all the opportunities in the world. See if they continue to pick each other up and let Clax clean house defensively. Let different guys try out with this unit... maybe O'Neal, Harris, Yuta, DFS...?

I just don't think you can play Din and Cam Thomas together. Maybe I'm wrong.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah after i thought about it, trading Simmons would be stupid. We can talk about his mental health all we want, but the fact is that he's not 100% physically. I keep him and work with him.

[Keith Van Horn]

Yeah after i thought about it, trading Simmons would be stupid. We can talk about his mental health all we want, but the fact is that he's not 100% physically. I keep him and work with him.

I mean if he improves his game and shows he's back to being fast and physical, I'd still trade him if we can get Trae Young or KAT.

But yeah, until further notice let's push him to keep training and getting back to his 2019 self.

[Papi_swav]

1) well Simmons is unmovable at this point so we're stuck with him. Might as well just keep him and let him work thru it, we have no rush. We play him next year and hope he's regained form, if he has then we might be able to get some value for him, if not then just stick with him until the year after where he becomes an expiring contract and hopefully get something for him. I'm not too bothered by Simmons now that we're not contending anymore.

2) Definitely resign Cam, no matter the cost we have to match. We'll be able to trade him down the line if we need to but we can't allow him to just walk. I'm sure teams will come calling for him so maybe work a sign and trade if the trade works but if not just re sign him and play him alongside Bridges.

3) JV definitely won't be our coach next season. He's done a decent job, maybe we bring him back as an assistant or something but we're due for an upgrade. A real coach that knows offense and defense and knows how to run plays, rotations, game management etc..

4) Sean Marks isn't going anywhere. He is black balling Tsai because he has him on video in some panties lmaooo JK but I think marks has a plan and Tsai likes it. Personally I would keep Marks. He's already rebuilt this team once, I think he can do it again. And we got alot of nice pieces from the KD/Kyrie trades, and he's a good drafter so I think he's the man for the job.

5) We're the team that gets first digs for a disgruntled star that asks out. Everybody would be looking at us first or 2nd because of all our assets and salary matching. My thing is, that star player has to be worth it for us. I would be mad if we trade a bunch of assets for Trae Young, Dame, Lavine or Beal. Those are the exact guys that would mess up the franchise because they have a small window at this point. They're way overpaid and are already injury prone and have weaknesses. This sounds like the Paul Pierce/KG trade all over again. If we're going to trade for a star he must be a young stud. Someone like SGA or Jaylen Brown. Young guys that has maybe an 8 year life line, not players on the wrong side of 30 with 2 years left in their prime and are going to miss games for a soar calf. There's not too many young stars like that that I would trade for but this is the only type of players I would trade for. If not then just keep drafting and building and we'll eventually sign a star FA because this is Brooklyn NYC and we're just dope.

[Marvin Martian]

1) well Simmons is unmovable at this point so we're stuck with him. Might as well just keep him and let him work thru it, we have no rush. We play him next year and hope he's regained form, if he has then we might be able to get some value for him, if not then just stick with him until the year after where he becomes an expiring contract and hopefully get something for him. I'm not too bothered by Simmons now that we're not contending anymore.

2) Definitely resign Cam, no matter the cost we have to match. We'll be able to trade him down the line if we need to but we can't allow him to just walk. I'm sure teams will come calling for him so maybe work a sign and trade if the trade works but if not just re sign him and play him alongside Bridges.

3) JV definitely won't be our coach next season. He's done a decent job, maybe we bring him back as an assistant or something but we're due for an upgrade. A real coach that knows offense and defense and knows how to run plays, rotations, game management etc..

4) Sean Marks isn't going anywhere. He is black balling Tsai because he has him on video in some panties lmaooo JK but I think marks has a plan and Tsai likes it. Personally I would keep Marks. He's already rebuilt this team once, I think he can do it again. And we got alot of nice pieces from the KD/Kyrie trades, and he's a good drafter so I think he's the man for the job.

5) We're the team that gets first digs for a disgruntled star that asks out. Everybody would be looking at us first or 2nd because of all our assets and salary matching. My thing is, that star player has to be worth it for us. I would be mad if we trade a bunch of assets for Trae Young, Dame, Lavine or Beal. Those are the exact guys that would mess up the franchise because they have a small window at this point. They're way overpaid and are already injury prone and have weaknesses. This sounds like the Paul Pierce/KG trade all over again. If we're going to trade for a star he must be a young stud. Someone like SGA or Jaylen Brown. Young guys that has maybe an 8 year life line, not players on the wrong side of 30 with 2 years left in their prime and are going to miss games for a soar calf. There's not too many young stars like that that I would trade for but this is the only type of players I would trade for. If not then just keep drafting and building and we'll eventually sign a star FA because this is Brooklyn NYC and we're just dope.

Unfortunately, the current window is not that big. Bridges is arguably the best player on the team and he is 26. Aside from Cam, and Clax, there are no viable young pieces on this team. Furthermore, we don't control our own picks. Trading for a star is the only option right now. We just need to make sure that the star is a bus driver and not a bus rider like KD, Ky and Harden. Young would be a good fit. The Nets have enough defenders to mask his flaws.

[Papi_swav]

1) well Simmons is unmovable at this point so we're stuck with him. Might as well just keep him and let him work thru it, we have no rush. We play him next year and hope he's regained form, if he has then we might be able to get some value for him, if not then just stick with him until the year after where he becomes an expiring contract and hopefully get something for him. I'm not too bothered by Simmons now that we're not contending anymore.

2) Definitely resign Cam, no matter the cost we have to match. We'll be able to trade him down the line if we need to but we can't allow him to just walk. I'm sure teams will come calling for him so maybe work a sign and trade if the trade works but if not just re sign him and play him alongside Bridges.

3) JV definitely won't be our coach next season. He's done a decent job, maybe we bring him back as an assistant or something but we're due for an upgrade. A real coach that knows offense and defense and knows how to run plays, rotations, game management etc..

4) Sean Marks isn't going anywhere. He is black balling Tsai because he has him on video in some panties lmaooo JK but I think marks has a plan and Tsai likes it. Personally I would keep Marks. He's already rebuilt this team once, I think he can do it again. And we got alot of nice pieces from the KD/Kyrie trades, and he's a good drafter so I think he's the man for the job.

5) We're the team that gets first digs for a disgruntled star that asks out. Everybody would be looking at us first or 2nd because of all our assets and salary matching. My thing is, that star player has to be worth it for us. I would be mad if we trade a bunch of assets for Trae Young, Dame, Lavine or Beal. Those are the exact guys that would mess up the franchise because they have a small window at this point. They're way overpaid and are already injury prone and have weaknesses. This sounds like the Paul Pierce/KG trade all over again. If we're going to trade for a star he must be a young stud. Someone like SGA or Jaylen Brown. Young guys that has maybe an 8 year life line, not players on the wrong side of 30 with 2 years left in their prime and are going to miss games for a soar calf. There's not too many young stars like that that I would trade for but this is the only type of players I would trade for. If not then just keep drafting and building and we'll eventually sign a star FA because this is Brooklyn NYC and we're just dope.

Unfortunately, the current window is not that big. Bridges is arguably the best player on the team and he is 26. Aside from Cam, and Clax, there are no viable young pieces on this team. Furthermore, we don't control our own picks. Trading for a star is the only option right now. We just need to make sure that the star is a bus driver and not a bus rider like KD, Ky and Harden. Young would be a good fit. The Nets have enough defenders to mask his flaws.

26 is very young, Bridges has at least 6 years left in his prime on that body and maybe even more. Most legit players drop off at like 33, it varies but Bridges is iron man and should be able to perform highly until then so that can be 6-8 years left on him, that's a very large window still.

Beal, Lavine, Dame are the small window guys. Cam Johnson is younger and Claxton is even younger than them so idk what you're saying that we have a small window. Add in a guy like SGA or Jaylen Brown and we have a legit 5 year window and maybe more. This is why we shouldn't add Beal, Lavine or Dame. We can still draft guys in the next 2-3 in the time being, then eventually sign a star FA in 2025-2026 free agent class. There is literally no rush. Next year our pick is given to Rockets but I doubt we're a bottom 10 team so most likely it'll be a mid teens pick.

[NetsWorld]

1) well Simmons is unmovable at this point so we're stuck with him. Might as well just keep him and let him work thru it, we have no rush. We play him next year and hope he's regained form, if he has then we might be able to get some value for him, if not then just stick with him until the year after where he becomes an expiring contract and hopefully get something for him. I'm not too bothered by Simmons now that we're not contending anymore.

2) Definitely resign Cam, no matter the cost we have to match. We'll be able to trade him down the line if we need to but we can't allow him to just walk. I'm sure teams will come calling for him so maybe work a sign and trade if the trade works but if not just re sign him and play him alongside Bridges.

3) JV definitely won't be our coach next season. He's done a decent job, maybe we bring him back as an assistant or something but we're due for an upgrade. A real coach that knows offense and defense and knows how to run plays, rotations, game management etc..

4) Sean Marks isn't going anywhere. He is black balling Tsai because he has him on video in some panties lmaooo JK but I think marks has a plan and Tsai likes it. Personally I would keep Marks. He's already rebuilt this team once, I think he can do it again. And we got alot of nice pieces from the KD/Kyrie trades, and he's a good drafter so I think he's the man for the job.

5) We're the team that gets first digs for a disgruntled star that asks out. Everybody would be looking at us first or 2nd because of all our assets and salary matching. My thing is, that star player has to be worth it for us. I would be mad if we trade a bunch of assets for Trae Young, Dame, Lavine or Beal. Those are the exact guys that would mess up the franchise because they have a small window at this point. They're way overpaid and are already injury prone and have weaknesses. This sounds like the Paul Pierce/KG trade all over again. If we're going to trade for a star he must be a young stud. Someone like SGA or Jaylen Brown. Young guys that has maybe an 8 year life line, not players on the wrong side of 30 with 2 years left in their prime and are going to miss games for a soar calf. There's not too many young stars like that that I would trade for but this is the only type of players I would trade for. If not then just keep drafting and building and we'll eventually sign a star FA because this is Brooklyn NYC and we're just dope.

Unfortunately, the current window is not that big. Bridges is arguably the best player on the team and he is 26. Aside from Cam, and Clax, there are no viable young pieces on this team. Furthermore, we don't control our own picks. Trading for a star is the only option right now. We just need to make sure that the star is a bus driver and not a bus rider like KD, Ky and Harden. Young would be a good fit. The Nets have enough defenders to mask his flaws.

26 is very young, Bridges has at least 6 years left in his prime on that body and maybe even more. Most legit players drop off at like 33, it varies but Bridges is iron man and should be able to perform highly until then so that can be 6-8 years left on him, that's a very large window still.

Beal, Lavine, Dame are the small window guys. Cam Johnson is younger and Claxton is even younger than them so idk what you're saying that we have a small window. Add in a guy like SGA or Jaylen Brown and we have a legit 5 year window and maybe more. This is why we shouldn't add Beal, Lavine or Dame. We can still draft guys in the next 2-3 in the time being, then eventually sign a star FA in 2025-2026 free agent class. There is literally no rush. Next year our pick is given to Rockets but I doubt we're a bottom 10 team so most likely it'll be a mid teens pick.

I am all for it at this point; Young is also a Knick killer so that may allow us to get back on track to pwning them. Q I have is if we go for Young, do we go for Capella? Capella is a big that fills so much need next to Claxton. Young/Capella solve so many issues for this team.

[Iverson Armband]

Is Ben Simmons single? It's nothing weird. It's just a sexual fantasy of mine.

[Dirk]

Is Ben Simmons single? It's nothing weird. It's just a sexual fantasy of mine.

Ben Simmons has left the Sixers a long time ago.

Do you not think it reflects poorly on you that you're hanging around the Nets board not to add any meaningful discussions, but just to try to mock?

[Keith Van Horn]

I absolutely don't think it's a laughable idea that the Nets would be able to wind up with an all star caliber player like KAT or Trae by shipping out Ben. Depends on the assets (Nets have a lot), the timing of things (this could happen a year or 2 from now), the desperation of other teams, and the star power of players dictating things to front offices.

[Stone]

Not exactly nothing we didn't already know but. Suns best offer was 72M over four years and Cam turned it down. But he is one of the pieces we either have to sign and trade or make an offer. I don't see Dennis Schroder part two, but seriously what does this guy think is a reasonable offer?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270500/Suns-Best-Offer-To-Cam-Johnson-Was-$72M-Over-Four-Years

[Papi_swav]

Honestly I don't want Trae or KAT. I would be ok with KAT but I much rather a 2 way star or a star that can try and compete on defense at the least. Those 2 guys don't even try on that side of the floor, thee absolute worst defenders in the NBA. I get that we can cover for them with everybody else being good defensively but I rather not have any big holes on defense like those guys are. I definitely don't want Trae, dude is shooting horribly this year and he just isn't that great. We should have our sights on SGA

[Keith Van Horn]

Not exactly nothing we didn't already know but. Suns best offer was 72M over four years and Cam turned it down. But he is one of the pieces we either have to sign and trade or make an offer. I don't see Dennis Schroder part two, but seriously what does this guy think is a reasonable offer?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270500/Suns-Best-Offer-To-Cam-Johnson-Was-$72M-Over-Four-Years

insert the Shaq meme here saying that "sorry I'm not familiar with his game"

I don't know enough about Cam tbh. One of my close friends who is a Suns fan likes him a lot but we've got to be careful with the kind of money we're looking to dish out here in this rebuild. He's young, stretches the floor, and has played winning basketball so far in his short career. I think he fits with what we're trying to do?

[NetsJets]

We need another big and a scoring wing.

[Eatgreenz]

Honestly I don't want Trae or KAT. I would be ok with KAT but I much rather a 2 way star or a star that can try and compete on defense at the least. Those 2 guys don't even try on that side of the floor, thee absolute worst defenders in the NBA. I get that we can cover for them with everybody else being good defensively but I rather not have any big holes on defense like those guys are. I definitely don't want Trae, dude is shooting horribly this year and he just isn't that great. We should have our sights on SGA

I get your point on trae but out of the three him, kat, sga. Trae looks like the most attainable. We literally built a perfect team for someone like him, plus no way he wouldn't love to play against knicks in the garden 2 times a year.

[TheNetsFan]

Not exactly nothing we didn't already know but. Suns best offer was 72M over four years and Cam turned it down. But he is one of the pieces we either have to sign and trade or make an offer. I don't see Dennis Schroder part two, but seriously what does this guy think is a reasonable offer?

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270500/Suns-Best-Offer-To-Cam-Johnson-Was-$72M-Over-Four-Years

insert the Shaq meme here saying that "sorry I'm not familiar with his game"

I don't know enough about Cam tbh. One of my close friends who is a Suns fan likes him a lot but we've got to be careful with the kind of money we're looking to dish out here in this rebuild. He's young, stretches the floor, and has played winning basketball so far in his short career. I think he fits with what we're trying to do?

I think 4/$72mil is fair given what elite shooters earn. That's the Joe Harris contract. Given the increase in cap since Harris signed his deal, and Johnson's better size and athleticism, but lesser durability, he should be slightly higher than that, but he should also be below the Mikal 4/$90mil deal. I'd go to 4/$78mil or 4/$80mil and see if he bites. My gut is that twin 2 wants the same 4/$90mil deal twin 1 got. Structure of the deal is perhaps more important than the total amount. I'd try to sign him to a deal that starts higher, decreases by the max 8% the next two seasons, and then it can increase by 8% again in the 4th season. The value in that is squeezing every bit of cap space we can for 2025 free agency.

[CalamityX12]

Wanted to comment on the Ben Simmons issue. Never seen a guy in basketball so deferring to attack the rim or go at it to put points on the board. It's nothing I've ever seen. It's like a soccer player passing up kicking into the open net n passed to a player to take on the burden. like wtf dude....

It's not good for the team to play under those conditions. His value ain't growing when he's doing that... idk, it's so bizarre while guys who give a sh*t and try, limited or not, are forced to watch. please.