Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Papi_swav]

If Ben can even get to 75% of what he once was we'll have an interesting and fun team

[haosmoove]

If Ben can even get to 75% of what he once was we'll have an interesting and fun team

I rather have 75% chance of him being 100% than 100% chance of being 75%.

[Keith Van Horn]

Been away for a minute with work related stuff... But coming back around these parts more lately now

What's the latest with a possible Herro trade? I was starting to warm up to the idea of him being thrown into our starting 5, granted it would only cost us something like a 1st + Royce... is that still a possibility?

I think a lineup of

Simmon
Herro
Bridges
Johnson
Claxton

Could run around the East a bit and cause some waves. I don't ultimately think it would put us anything above a 5 seed, though. We are still in need of that dominant elite piece. Maybe make a move for Embiid at some point, or Luka next year. Far fetched probably.

[Netaman]

Been away for a minute with work related stuff... But coming back around these parts more lately now

What's the latest with a possible Herro trade? I was starting to warm up to the idea of him being thrown into our starting 5, granted it would only cost us something like a 1st + Royce... is that still a possibility?

I think a lineup of

Simmon
Herro
Bridges
Johnson
Claxton

Could run around the East a bit and cause some waves. I don't ultimately think it would put us anything above a 5 seed, though. We are still in need of that dominant elite piece. Maybe make a move for Embiid at some point, or Luka next year. Far fetched probably.

seems like only a matter of time before portland and miami find a deal that works, then we see if nets are in fact the 3rd team. i agree the team above would be a lot of fun if simmons is healthy.

[Keith Van Horn]

Been away for a minute with work related stuff... But coming back around these parts more lately now

What's the latest with a possible Herro trade? I was starting to warm up to the idea of him being thrown into our starting 5, granted it would only cost us something like a 1st + Royce... is that still a possibility?

I think a lineup of

Simmon
Herro
Bridges
Johnson
Claxton

Could run around the East a bit and cause some waves. I don't ultimately think it would put us anything above a 5 seed, though. We are still in need of that dominant elite piece. Maybe make a move for Embiid at some point, or Luka next year. Far fetched probably.

seems like only a matter of time before portland and miami find a deal that works, then we see if nets are in fact the 3rd team. i agree the team above would be a lot of fun if simmons is healthy.

I kinda think that a Simmons and Herro backcourt would really accentuate Bridges' star potential... as long as Simmons is healthy/mentally right, and we actually trade for Herro

[ChuckS]

I kinda think that a Simmons and Herro backcourt would really accentuate Bridges' star potential... as long as Simmons is healthy/mentally right, and we actually trade for Herro

I agree. Even without Spencer starting we would have three shooters in the starting lineup if we get Herro. And Ben did average 16 points per game, @56%, with 8 boards, and 7.5 assists, when with Philly. 82 Games had him as a +4.9 against opponents (his lowest with the 6ers) and with a +6.6 on/off court in 20-21. I could live with that. And he does help our size problem, although I still think we could use another big. Bridges was just quoted as believing our lineup is set. But I'm hoping we are only delaying any other move so as not to increase our cap before a possible Herro trade. Portland has given me some concern with that, though.

[Netaman]

Been away for a minute with work related stuff... But coming back around these parts more lately now

What's the latest with a possible Herro trade? I was starting to warm up to the idea of him being thrown into our starting 5, granted it would only cost us something like a 1st + Royce... is that still a possibility?

I think a lineup of

Simmon
Herro
Bridges
Johnson
Claxton

Could run around the East a bit and cause some waves. I don't ultimately think it would put us anything above a 5 seed, though. We are still in need of that dominant elite piece. Maybe make a move for Embiid at some point, or Luka next year. Far fetched probably.

seems like only a matter of time before portland and miami find a deal that works, then we see if nets are in fact the 3rd team. i agree the team above would be a lot of fun if simmons is healthy.

I kinda think that a Simmons and Herro backcourt would really accentuate Bridges' star potential... as long as Simmons is healthy/mentally right, and we actually trade for Herro

the 3 of them are a really good fit together. bridges and herro can handle the ball, create, and space the floor, ben can guard bigger so herro can guard point guards and facilitate. that's an interesting trio offensively and bringing dinwiddie off bench as 6th man is kind of a perfect role for him. he can also guard bigger if he's playing with herro.

[Keith Van Horn]

seems like only a matter of time before portland and miami find a deal that works, then we see if nets are in fact the 3rd team. i agree the team above would be a lot of fun if simmons is healthy.

I kinda think that a Simmons and Herro backcourt would really accentuate Bridges' star potential... as long as Simmons is healthy/mentally right, and we actually trade for Herro

the 3 of them are a really good fit together. bridges and herro can handle the ball, create, and space the floor, ben can guard bigger so herro can guard point guards and facilitate. that's an interesting trio offensively and bringing dinwiddie off bench as 6th man is kind of a perfect role for him. he can also guard bigger if he's playing with herro.

This is exactly where I was going with this.

Both Simmons and Herro don't need to play like all stars, but if they can play above average ball and do what they do very well, it will really allow for Bridges to shine. I'd love to see Herro avg like 20 a game, shoot the 3 well, and give us a big scoring presence at the end of games.... and Ben can be a defensive /transition menace and help with the rebounding.... meanwhile both can serve as ball handlers and give Bridges breaks on both sides of the ball at times.

Spence is really the ideal 6th man...

But what nets us Herro?
Royce and a 2025 Phx 1st? (and we'd have to use one of our TEs, right?) I think I do that.

It would open space for DSJ, Walker, CamT off the bench while DFS can still play the 4 or 5. Haven't heard any Herro trade traction recently though.

[ChuckS]

But what nets us Herro?
Royce and a 2025 Phx 1st? (and we'd have to use one of our TEs, right?) I think I do that.

I'll defer to someone who knows, but I don't believe this is possible. I do not believe we can combine our trade exemptions with players, or multiple TEs, and cannot use any on Herro whose salary is higher than our largest. We also do not have enough cap room to absorb him without players. I'm not sure, but I think we can combine the cap room we do have with players to get him. I personally would not do Dinwiddie which would, IMO, negate most of the scoring/offense/ floor game, we gain with Tyler. I think we need to use DFS and Royce (because of their salaries), or preferably DFS and some combination of lesser paid players who would work under the CBA.

But, again, I admit to lacking the certainty of this.

[ecuhus1981]

I only see us acquiring Herro if Dinwiddie is leaving, which is why I'm opposed.

Tyler makes more money than can for in any of our TPE's, and we cannot aggregate them. We seem to be all in on restoring Simmons' role and value, so his salary can't be used to match. Assuming the Twins and Nic are off the table, that really only leaves Spencer + minor salary, or Dorian+O'Neale. Portland is not going to want DFS, so Dinwiddie is really the only option of we get involved in Dame to Miami. Tyler is a downgrade to Spencer in the short term, and we're already teetering on the brink of missing the postseason without a significant trade. I'm out on Herro.

[Tha King]

I really wonder how much of an upgrade Herro would be over Cam Thomas in his third season? Is that upgrade commensurate a high variance future draft pick? I actually think you can make an argument that Thomas has already shown a better all around scoring skillset than Herro. Now Herro does more but if you have to go into the Suns draft pick bag (plus key contributors) to get Herro, not sure I see the value.

[ecuhus1981]

I really wonder how much of an upgrade Herro would be over Cam Thomas in his third season? Is that upgrade commensurate a high variance future draft pick? I actually think you can make an argument that Thomas has already shown a better all around scoring skillset than Herro. Now Herro does more but if you have to go into the Suns draft pick bag (plus key contributors) to get Herro, not sure I see the value.

PRECISELY!

I'm not the biggest Thomas fan, but when you're taking about his like Poole, Simons and Herro, I think there's a very good chance Cam T becomes just as good as those guys. They're all pretty horrible defenders and electric scorers, I'd rather give minutes to the cheapest, youngest one that we already have.

[ChuckS]

I really wonder how much of an upgrade Herro would be over Cam Thomas in his third season? Is that upgrade commensurate a high variance future draft pick? I actually think you can make an argument that Thomas has already shown a better all around scoring skillset than Herro. Now Herro does more but if you have to go into the Suns draft pick bag (plus key contributors) to get Herro, not sure I see the value.

PRECISELY!

I'm not the biggest Thomas fan, but when you're taking about his like Poole, Simons and Herro, I think there's a very good chance Cam T becomes just as good as those guys. They're all pretty horrible defenders and electric scorers, I'd rather give minutes to the cheapest, youngest one that we already have.

I obviously agree with your earlier post regarding not trading Dinwiddie in any deal for Herro. And I am of like mind when it comes to Cam T. I saw a greater role for him this year as our "microwave" bench scorer. But if we do not give up these, or other, scoring threats, I can see Herro as an addition that really would help.

I also think Simmons will come back strong. If he starts, we should have an exceptional defensive starting lineup, And the total team will have an abundance of dangerous scorers, so even our subs would be threats. I do not know how many offensive and defensive threats we need to offset the lack of a superstar. But with the addition of one more good big, I envision a team eminently watchable and exceptionally competitive.

Your concern about Portland not wanting DFS, is likely true. But he is a prototypical Miami player, an exceptional defender who has shot the three at 36% for his career. Portland seems more interested in some of their young players, so I see the Heat keeping him. He, and anyone else we include that doesn't interest the Blazers, would shore up their bench which is usually depleted when trading for a superstar.

[Netaman]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

[vincecarter4pres]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

Yeah, the disrespect for Herro is wild haha.

[Tha King]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

Yeah, the disrespect for Herro is wild haha.

it's less about the difference between Herro/Cam Thomas and more about the relative low value of the archetype they are and what it might take to get Herro. A non-defending scoring guard is not all that valuable imo and pretty much every team has one. Portland doesn't seem to want Herro for that very reason and it doesn't appear there's a ton of interest elsewhere.

[Tha King]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

Herro found a role as a bench scorer on a defensive team that needed his offensive skillset. Thomas was drafted into a superteam with offensive stars and still had moments when given the opportunity. The situations they were drafted into has to be considered.

Herro first two seasons on/off and per 36 ppg:
Year 1: -8.4 ; 17.7ppg
Year 2: -5.3 ; 17.9ppg

Cam Thomas:
Year 1: -10.9 ; 17.4ppg
Year 2: -3.3 ; 22.9ppg

Both net negatives because they don't give you much beyond scoring but Herro was in an ideal situation where he could play minutes and get his inefficient points without any defense because he had elite defense and playmakers around him.

Hopefully this doesn't get misconstrued as hyping Cam Thomas. It's just I don't think there's a ton of value in the Cam Thomas/Herro archetype of guard which factors in what I think Brooklyn should trade for Herro and the point where developing Cam Thomas makes more sense.

[Decipher]

Cam is much younger but a much better scorer than Herro or Simons

He’s obviously got major weaknesses but, on the other hand, I seriously doubt that Spo would have just sat a kid who put up 3 consecutive 40 point games

He would have taken the novel approach of trying to coach him

[Netaman]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

Herro found a role as a bench scorer on a defensive team that needed his offensive skillset. Thomas was drafted into a superteam with offensive stars and still had moments when given the opportunity. The situations they were drafted into has to be considered.

Herro first two seasons on/off and per 36 ppg:
Year 1: -8.4 ; 17.7ppg
Year 2: -5.3 ; 17.9ppg

Cam Thomas:
Year 1: -10.9 ; 17.4ppg
Year 2: -3.3 ; 22.9ppg

Both net negatives because they don't give you much beyond scoring but Herro was in an ideal situation where he could play minutes and get his inefficient points without any defense because he had elite defense and playmakers around him.

Hopefully this doesn't get misconstrued as hyping Cam Thomas. It's just I don't think there's a ton of value in the Cam Thomas/Herro archetype of guard which factors in what I think Brooklyn should trade for Herro and the point where developing Cam Thomas makes more sense.

Herro is a different archetype if you believe he can an elite shooter, which I do. I think he's a better version of Reddick, who made a lot of money over his career for pretty good reason.

I don't believe Cam is or can be an elite shooter. until he proves he can carve out any sort of regular role the good games are fools gold. With all the injuries the nets had the last couple years he has had chances to earl regular minutes and he couldnt do it when they were superstar driven, load managing, or a scrappy team of non-scorers.

Herro just has a higher BBIQ than Cam in every other way until further notice. Herro is a sneaky good rebounder, can actually operate as a playmaker, and while his defensive numbers aren't good they are better than Cam's. he's thrived as a 6th man and as a starter. he's fit into a team culture. cam's done none of those things.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Cam Thomas turning into anything close to Herro is a stretch for me. He's been worse at basically everything as a pro and despite obvious scoring skill couldn't get his way into the lineup at the end of the year when they obviously needed more scoring.

Herro on the other hand since his rookie year has not just found roles, but done so on winning teams and produced in the playoffs.

Let's see Cam find a way to carve out a regular role in regular season before comparing him in any way/shape/form to Herro. The talent is there but he's Marshon Brooks until he proves otherwise.

I would assume if there's a Herro to Nets deal, it's with Royce and DFS getting traded, maybe one of the Miami since either would be helpful role players there on a team looking to contend.

Everything depends on the Lillard/Miami talks, which are mostly unknown other than that we know they are happening.

Herro found a role as a bench scorer on a defensive team that needed his offensive skillset. Thomas was drafted into a superteam with offensive stars and still had moments when given the opportunity. The situations they were drafted into has to be considered.

Herro first two seasons on/off and per 36 ppg:
Year 1: -8.4 ; 17.7ppg
Year 2: -5.3 ; 17.9ppg

Cam Thomas:
Year 1: -10.9 ; 17.4ppg
Year 2: -3.3 ; 22.9ppg

Both net negatives because they don't give you much beyond scoring but Herro was in an ideal situation where he could play minutes and get his inefficient points without any defense because he had elite defense and playmakers around him.

Hopefully this doesn't get misconstrued as hyping Cam Thomas. It's just I don't think there's a ton of value in the Cam Thomas/Herro archetype of guard which factors in what I think Brooklyn should trade for Herro and the point where developing Cam Thomas makes more sense.

Herro have stable front office, locker room , best young mastermind in Spoelstra during his time in Miami

Cam Thomas , so far he had worst drama ridden locker room , joke of a Head Coach in Nash and Vaughn who was very fast to put him in his doghouse right after he had three +40 points games

Reverse the situation and the gap maybe isn’t that wide between Herro and Cam