Cam Johnson RFA (Update: Re-signed $108 million/4 years)

[JKiddy]

I do not think DET is dumb enough to overpay so much it would hinder their entire future since they have youth that can grow and have value. The more intelligent play is to keep growing incrementally and spend the $30M you have on multiple players to fill out your roster. Would that not be the more logical route?

[Netaman]

I do not think DET is dumb enough to overpay so much it would hinder their entire future since they have youth that can grow and have value. The more intelligent play is to keep growing incrementally and spend the $30M you have on multiple players to fill out your roster. Would that not be the more logical route?

if Monty loves the guy and thinks he's a core piece and culture builder what difference does a few million make? when is the last time detroit was attracting core players via FA? bogs/wiseman expire next year so it's not like they cant create more room in the future.

that said, i think that's where a S&t comes in. if they truly love Cam to that degree that they'd rather spend on him vs say Kuzma who is a UFA with no risk of getting matched if he agrees to sign, then they should engage the nets in a reasonable s&t and get it done. a future FRP and TPE is enough for me that i'd let him go.

id rather bring him back but if the money is going to be stupid, ill take the assets and just keep DFS.

[Snakebites]

right but my point is him calling the bluff still probably means having to go in with a potentially higher offer sheet because now you are literally trying to win by making an offer so bad the nets wont accept it. the nets issue isn't luxury tax or how much money, it's purely just based on if the asset gets so overpaid it's stupid. and honestly whatever it is they may still match it. tsai seems to have no issues paying lux tax and it wont push them to the 2nd apron or anything. it just turns into a deal that's impossible to move, which i guess doesnt matter if they like the player enough.

end of the day there are a lot of different strategies and they will choose one. they can roll the dice and go big on cash. or they can try to talk to the nets and work something out. both paths have their downsides and neither is a lock.

Yeah, I just respectfully think getting a first rounder with little to no upper protection out of the situation is wishful thinking on your end.

Most likely you’ll either end up overpaying to keep him or you’ll lose him for marginal or no return.

And most likely we’ll either get a Pyrrhic victory by landing him at a silly price or we’ll walk away with nothing.

That’s the RFA game. Cam Johnson is the textbook example of a guy who will benefit from it- not a max level guy but a guy with a valuable skill set who fits lots of teams. For the record push comes to shove I agree with you. Betting odds are he remains a Net, though it’s probably going to be at a number higher than the Nets are comfortable with. I don’t see them letting him walk- I just think they’ll view a major overpay as a better outcome than a marginal overpay AND the loss of a first rounder without the protection.

100% agree. Ayton is a perfect example from last year of the same thing happening. But before he signed the offer sheet there were a million and 1 sign and trade rumors for Myles Turner/picks. Now the contract is crazy under water and whichever team didn't get him dodged a bullet, which is why i hope the nets have some discipline if Detroit comes in with a crazy offer, but at the same i think both sides would be smart to just not play the RFA game and treat it like a regular S&T. Indiana didn't do anything smart to not end up with that contract on their books except get lucky the Suns matched.

I could definitely be a little off on my value of the Detroit pick but having an RFA is more leverage than a UFA and i dont think a future first of a team trying to make the playoffs is that big of a price. let's say nets wanted FVV who will probably get paid between 25-30m, I wouldnt be shocked if the price of that S&T is a future first. The protections already existing with the Knicks sort of dictate the pick otherwise it's a pick 3 years down the road with protections, which is a very meh and borderline useless pick.

I think it really depends on what the Pistons would be giving up in a hypothetical sign and trade. I'd rather overpay for him at keep the pick than give up the pick to sign him at closer to market value. That's just me personally.

And the Nets are a better team than the Pistons- a first rounder isn't worth as much to them. The Pistons will certainly believe they'll improve, both internally and with Cam, but being willing to bet on that to the extent of giving up a first rounder like that is another matter entirely.

And no, I have no idea what a sign and trade with Cam could look like.

[Pharaoh]

Brooklyn enters the offseason only $10 million below the $162 million tax threshold and will likely end up a tax team after giving a new contract to Johnson, barring a trade of another player on the roster. If Johnson's contract starts with a $20 million salary for 2023-24, Brooklyn would need to move at least $15 million in salary to avoid the tax. If the Nets don't, they'll be over the tax and the new "first apron" in the collective bargaining agreement that starts in July. The good news is that the Nets have five players earning between $6.8 and $20 million on expiring contracts, including the $9.5 million partially guaranteed salary of Royce O'Neale.

Isn't the second apron approx 180 mil?

If Detroit offer 28 mil to Cam and he signs that offer sheet what does that do to the Nets cap situation?

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[aad]

I’m not feeling too confident that the pistons is gonna offer Cam a big contract I think he stays in Brooklyn

[Netaman]

I’m not feeling too confident that the pistons is gonna offer Cam a big contract I think he stays in Brooklyn

if i had cap space above MLE i'd rather spend it on Strus/Brown/Vincent/Grant on this type of deal as opposed to twice as much (or more) on Cam with the nets still possibly matching. but that's just me.

The Pacers are considering a three-year offer worth up to $48 million for Heat free agent forward Max Strus, per Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

if the houston fvv/sac kuzma rumors are true, there are basically 5 teams left with cap space above 12m.

SAS 42m
IND 32m - connected to Strus (and DFS)
DET 30m - connected to Cam J.
ORL 24m
OKC 18.5m - have been connected to DFS

those 5 teams will basically each get their choice of at least 1 FA left. and if any get left out in the cold and nets get cam j back i suspect one of those teams will be the ones who gives up a future pick for DFS.

[bubonicphoniks]

I really hope the Nets let Cam walk. Hes a likeable guy and when he gets hot from 3 its unreal but I just don't think hes a complete player. I didnt like what I saw last year. Its like everyone forgets what he actually plays like and loves the idea of Cam Johnson.

Sorry but Im not in on thr hype everyone else seems to be. I don't like him as a big money guy at all.

[Tha King]

I really hope the Nets let Cam walk. Hes a likeable guy and when he gets hot from 3 its unreal but I just don't think hes a complete player. I didnt like what I saw last year. Its like everyone forgets what he actually plays like and loves the idea of Cam Johnson.

Sorry but Im not in on thr hype everyone else seems to be. I don't like him as a big money guy at all.

You're not the only one. He's too limited to be considered a key starter let alone one of the main players.

[Netaman]

judging by the numbers on the extensions reported so far (specifically barnes and all the guys opt'ing in) i think the reports of cam johnson's future salary are overhyped.

all it takes is 1 team in the pistons deciding to do something crazy, so that's not a lock, because the RFA system does encourage that sort of behavior. but if the pistons do go crazy, I would hope the nets pivot to grant williams or strus or gabe vincent at the full MLE because those guys really are solid players at a similar age who can fill a similar role. they dont have the elite shooting but they are each good at other things.

[bubonicphoniks]

: ((((

[Karate Diop]

Contract is a bit of an overpay. 4 years 90 probably would have been fair value given his injury history, etc.

[Paradise]

He basically ends up around 95M to 100M before contract bonus incentives. That’s pretty solid considering Detroit was going to be a pest.

[Papi_swav]

A bit of an overpay but not drastic. I had him at 25M a year and this is slightly more than that so it's fine. People are saying it's bonuses so we just have to wait and see what the final numbers are. If the numbers are 100M or below without the incentives then that's a fair deal. Probably gets a bonus for the numbers of games played because of his injury history which is smart on the Nets part.

[therealbig3]

He's a good all-around player that still has some upside, only 27 years old. I think Bridges/Claxton/Johnson is a really solid young trio that can win us RS games and make us pesky in the playoffs.

Now let's trade Dinwiddie and go after Divincenzo and D-Lo.

[Karate Diop]

He basically ends up around 95M to 100M before contract bonus incentives. That’s pretty solid considering Detroit was going to be a pest.

Details dropped? Source bro?

[Keith Van Horn]

Don't love it but don't hate it. I think CJ will be super motivated now. He's back with Mikal, and I think that goes a long way. He definitely needs to become more consistent though.

[ecuhus1981]

He basically ends up around 95M to 100M before contract bonus incentives. That’s pretty solid considering Detroit was going to be a pest.

Thanks for the Intel.

We did well. We could have strung him out until late July, and haggled to get the price down to the $102mil range. You risk him taking the Qualifying Offer with this strategy, becoming an unrestricted free agent and walking next summer. You also would have risked souring the Twins on this front office.

Cameron Johnson is better and younger than Jerami Grant and Kyle Kuzma, and will be making less than either. I repeat, we did well.

[ecuhus1981]

The one caveat I have is not for us, it's for Cam. He has now taken over the mantle from Joe Harris, of highly paid complementary player. I feel that unless his handle and finishing package improve dramatically, he's more of an amazing 4th option or solid #3, than the overstretched true 2nd option he was required to be at times here this season. The money says he'll have to be more comfortable taking over games, but his forte is winning on the margins and working around bigger players. The deal is still worth it, but I can see him becoming the new Most Hated Net (TM) by 2025 if he remains the current version of CJ.

[Netaman]

official numbers per bobby marks - functionally this looks very well structured and much more like a 4x95m. year 1 is the biggest hit making it more easily tradeable in each successive year since obviously they don't seem to be planning to move him this year.

if they look to move him next year there are 3 years, 69m left. John Collins got traded with 3 years 78m left this offseason.
then there are 2 years 45m left.
and finally an expiring 23.6m.

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Cam Johnson (Brooklyn)

2023-24

Base: $24.5M
Likely bonuses: $1.2M
Unlikely bonuses: $3.7M

Cap Hit: $25.7M

2024-25

Base: $22.5M
Likely bonuses: $1.1M
Unlikely bonuses: $3.4M

Cap Hit: $23.6M

2025-26

Base: $20.5M
Likely bonuses: $1M
Unlikely bonuses: $3.1M

Cap Hit: $21.6M

2026-27

Base: $22.5M
Likely bonuses: $1.1M
Unlikely bonuses: $3.4M

Cap Hit: $23.6M

[Netaman]

here's a more succinct explanation:

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