There Is Nothing Like a Dame Trade Proposal

[ecuhus1981]

I understand the logic of waiting until the true, true superstars are available.

The problem with that logic is, those guys are very rarely available.

When they are available in trade, you should go put in a bid.

When they are available in free agency, you need the right financial flexibility AND a reason to go. S&T is dead, the new rules killed it. So, if a superstar is going to move, the team that attracts him is going to have to have maximum capspace to go. And since we're talking about superstars who will have 7 (or in Giannis' case, 10) years of NBA experience IF they hit free agency, they will command 30% (or even 35%) of the cap.

In 2025, the NBA salary cap should be at ~$150mil, so that will mean a salary starting at $52.5mil for Giannis. S52.mil in capspace means we have to have no more than $97.5mil in salary on the books for that season (with at least 12 roster spots filled). The Twins, DFS, Whitehead and Clowney account for $69mil (nice). Claxton is due for a new contract the summer before, and he'll command north of $20mil. That puts us at $90mil for 6 players, the roster holds alone knock us out of maximum capspace. That's also letting literally everyone else walk, and not drafting or signing anyone next summer. It's a scorched Earth strategy, and honestly, I don't think we'd be eve na top 5 appealing place for Giannis to land.

Superstars want to play WITH superstars. Getting the 2nd is much easier, but getting the 1st one is very difficult. Damian is 33, he's injury-prone, he's on a massive contract and he's a defensive liability. Still, he's a superstar. Not an MVP-caliber one, but an All-NBA one, a true difference maker. A 35yo Lillard could help attract another superstar via trade, MORE than a "meh" collection of roleplayers can attract a superstar via free agency.

[Stone]

I understand the logic of waiting until the true, true superstars are available.

The problem with that logic is, those guys are very rarely available.

When they are available in trade, you should go put in a bid.

When they are available in free agency, you need the right financial flexibility AND a reason to go. S&T is dead, the new rules killed it. So, if a superstar is going to move, the team that attracts him is going to have to have maximum capspace to go. And since we're talking about superstars who will have 7 (or in Giannis' case, 10) years of NBA experience IF they hit free agency, they will command 30% (or even 35%) of the cap.

In 2025, the NBA salary cap should be at ~$150mil, so that will mean a salary starting at $52.5mil for Giannis. S52.mil in capspace means we have to have no more than $97.5mil in salary on the books for that season (with at least 12 roster spots filled). The Twins, DFS, Whitehead and Clowney account for $69mil (nice). Claxton is due for a new contract the summer before, and he'll command north of $20mil. That puts us at $90mil for 6 players, the roster holds alone knock us out of maximum capspace. That's also letting literally everyone else walk, and not drafting or signing anyone next summer. It's a scorched Earth strategy, and honestly, I don't think we'd be eve na top 5 appealing place for Giannis to land.

Superstars want to play WITH superstars. Getting the 2nd is much easier, but getting the 1st one is very difficult. Damian is 33, he's injury-prone, he's on a massive contract and he's a defensive liability. Still, he's a superstar. Not an MVP-caliber one, but an All-NBA one, a true difference maker. A 35yo Lillard could help attract another superstar via trade, MORE than a "meh" collection of roleplayers can attract a superstar via free agency.

You have made some good points. It is up to Joe Tsai and Sean Marks. Lillard wants out and the Blazers want to move him supposedly very soon. I am kind of warming up to taking a shot with Dame. Dame is a below the rim player and I still think that he has a lot of good years a head of him. The contract is worrisome but YOLO.

Personally, I hope Giannis and Luka stay put. In particular Giannis, Milwaukee has had a rough ride like us.

[Papi_swav]

I understand the logic of waiting until the true, true superstars are available.

The problem with that logic is, those guys are very rarely available.

When they are available in trade, you should go put in a bid.

When they are available in free agency, you need the right financial flexibility AND a reason to go. S&T is dead, the new rules killed it. So, if a superstar is going to move, the team that attracts him is going to have to have maximum capspace to go. And since we're talking about superstars who will have 7 (or in Giannis' case, 10) years of NBA experience IF they hit free agency, they will command 30% (or even 35%) of the cap.

In 2025, the NBA salary cap should be at ~$150mil, so that will mean a salary starting at $52.5mil for Giannis. S52.mil in capspace means we have to have no more than $97.5mil in salary on the books for that season (with at least 12 roster spots filled). The Twins, DFS, Whitehead and Clowney account for $69mil (nice). Claxton is due for a new contract the summer before, and he'll command north of $20mil. That puts us at $90mil for 6 players, the roster holds alone knock us out of maximum capspace. That's also letting literally everyone else walk, and not drafting or signing anyone next summer. It's a scorched Earth strategy, and honestly, I don't think we'd be eve na top 5 appealing place for Giannis to land.

Superstars want to play WITH superstars. Getting the 2nd is much easier, but getting the 1st one is very difficult. Damian is 33, he's injury-prone, he's on a massive contract and he's a defensive liability. Still, he's a superstar. Not an MVP-caliber one, but an All-NBA one, a true difference maker. A 35yo Lillard could help attract another superstar via trade, MORE than a "meh" collection of roleplayers can attract a superstar via free agency.

IDK it seems like every year or 2 a star player is available or so. We just got rid of 2 last year and another one the year before. When stars a free agents, we don't always need just 50M in cap space sitting there. Many times teams trade their players for cap space in order to sign the star free agents, it happens all the time. Or we can always sign and trade with the players ex team. A guy like Cam J shouldn't be hard to move because teams would value him and his contract is solid.

Stars do want to play with each other but don't forget teams that already have a superstar is most likely capped out to even get another superstar, they would have to gut the team kinda like what the HEAT did before they got the big 3 and that's if the player even wants to take a pay cut. We do have Bridges who can definitely be a 2 or a great 3rd level star player and I think guys would like to play with him because he does everything to win, he's a winning type player. We should stand pat, Dame is not that guy anymore. Great player still but he isn't getting us a chip, we'll be competitive but not contending team and we will be giving up at least 3 1st round picks for that, not to mention his contract is huge.

[TheNetsFan]

I understand the logic of waiting until the true, true superstars are available.

The problem with that logic is, those guys are very rarely available.

When they are available in trade, you should go put in a bid.

When they are available in free agency, you need the right financial flexibility AND a reason to go. S&T is dead, the new rules killed it. So, if a superstar is going to move, the team that attracts him is going to have to have maximum capspace to go. And since we're talking about superstars who will have 7 (or in Giannis' case, 10) years of NBA experience IF they hit free agency, they will command 30% (or even 35%) of the cap.

In 2025, the NBA salary cap should be at ~$150mil, so that will mean a salary starting at $52.5mil for Giannis. S52.mil in capspace means we have to have no more than $97.5mil in salary on the books for that season (with at least 12 roster spots filled). The Twins, DFS, Whitehead and Clowney account for $69mil (nice). Claxton is due for a new contract the summer before, and he'll command north of $20mil. That puts us at $90mil for 6 players, the roster holds alone knock us out of maximum capspace. That's also letting literally everyone else walk, and not drafting or signing anyone next summer. It's a scorched Earth strategy, and honestly, I don't think we'd be eve na top 5 appealing place for Giannis to land.

Superstars want to play WITH superstars. Getting the 2nd is much easier, but getting the 1st one is very difficult. Damian is 33, he's injury-prone, he's on a massive contract and he's a defensive liability. Still, he's a superstar. Not an MVP-caliber one, but an All-NBA one, a true difference maker. A 35yo Lillard could help attract another superstar via trade, MORE than a "meh" collection of roleplayers can attract a superstar via free agency.

2025 cap is projected to be about $156mil. We'll have a 35% slot even with Claxton & the roster holds. '25 free agency will be littered with marquee FAs. All you need to do is convince one to team with Bridges. If Claxton & Johnson aren't a good enough #3 & #4, then you have those two plus the most valuable trove of backloaded picks in the NBA to trade for another star, or you move them into cap space & sign another star. Giannis would be great, but I still think the '25 target is Mitchell.

[Netaman]

seems like a strong deal for portland. 1 FRP in the bank, 2 swaps with MIL, ayton is a good swap for them. fits their timeline and a good spot for him to re-establish himself. an outlet to support all their young guards.

should get at least 2 or 3 more FRPs for Jrue. Miami seems like an obviously landing spot but probably going to be some competition for him. Toronto could be a fit too.

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[Karate Diop]

Don't like it for the Blazers, but I'm down on Ayton... Bucks get Dame for cheap, which is sad ...

Can't respect those cheap shot clowns.

[Netaman]

Don't like it for the Blazers, but I'm down on Ayton... Bucks get Dame for cheap, which is sad ...

Can't respect those cheap shot clowns.

if they get 2 more unprotected FRPs for Jrue you don't think that's a good return?

3 unprotected FRP's, 2 swaps, and a 25 year old Ayton is a pretty damn good return for Dame imo.

[Papi_swav]

Don't like it for the Blazers, but I'm down on Ayton... Bucks get Dame for cheap, which is sad ...

Can't respect those cheap shot clowns.

3 firsts is alot if you ask me especially in 2028-2030, Bucks might suck by then.

[vincecarter4pres]

Don't like it for the Blazers, but I'm down on Ayton... Bucks get Dame for cheap, which is sad ...

Can't respect those cheap shot clowns.

if they get 2 more unprotected FRPs for Jrue you don't think that's a good return?

3 unprotected FRP's, 2 swaps, and a 25 year old Ayton is a pretty damn good return for Dame imo.

I don’t think they get two unprotected frp’s for Jrue at all.

They might get two frp’s for him period, but they won’t be unprotected. He’s getting long in the tooth and has a player option in ‘25.

[vincecarter4pres]

I understand the logic of waiting until the true, true superstars are available.

The problem with that logic is, those guys are very rarely available.

When they are available in trade, you should go put in a bid.

When they are available in free agency, you need the right financial flexibility AND a reason to go. S&T is dead, the new rules killed it. So, if a superstar is going to move, the team that attracts him is going to have to have maximum capspace to go. And since we're talking about superstars who will have 7 (or in Giannis' case, 10) years of NBA experience IF they hit free agency, they will command 30% (or even 35%) of the cap.

In 2025, the NBA salary cap should be at ~$150mil, so that will mean a salary starting at $52.5mil for Giannis. S52.mil in capspace means we have to have no more than $97.5mil in salary on the books for that season (with at least 12 roster spots filled). The Twins, DFS, Whitehead and Clowney account for $69mil (nice). Claxton is due for a new contract the summer before, and he'll command north of $20mil. That puts us at $90mil for 6 players, the roster holds alone knock us out of maximum capspace. That's also letting literally everyone else walk, and not drafting or signing anyone next summer. It's a scorched Earth strategy, and honestly, I don't think we'd be eve na top 5 appealing place for Giannis to land.

Superstars want to play WITH superstars. Getting the 2nd is much easier, but getting the 1st one is very difficult. Damian is 33, he's injury-prone, he's on a massive contract and he's a defensive liability. Still, he's a superstar. Not an MVP-caliber one, but an All-NBA one, a true difference maker. A 35yo Lillard could help attract another superstar via trade, MORE than a "meh" collection of roleplayers can attract a superstar via free agency.

2025 cap is projected to be about $156mil. We'll have a 35% slot even with Claxton & the roster holds. '25 free agency will be littered with marquee FAs. All you need to do is convince one to team with Bridges. If Claxton & Johnson aren't a good enough #3 & #4, then you have those two plus the most valuable trove of backloaded picks in the NBA to trade for another star, or you move them into cap space & sign another star. Giannis would be great, but I still think the '25 target is Mitchell.

Still think the target is ultimately Luka; but Mitchell, Darius Garland(one is likely to be dealt), Ja, Ingram and outside chance of Trae are very real targets, trade or eventual FA’s.

Lillard to Milwaukee really clouds a path to any sort of real contention for the next 3 seasons though.

So if they don’t land one of the above, who give them a legit 5-7 year timeline, they probably just make savvy moves on the cheap, grabbing expensive veterans who can still play and move the needle as complimentary pieces, to remain as competitive as possible while Houston still controls so many of our future drafts.

[TheNetsFan]

Ayton fits Portland's team much better than Herro. He's better and plays a position of need. They can recoup at least one pick by moving Holiday to make up for the extra pick they could have gotten from Miami.

They likely move Jrue, but he's be a great mentor to lead Scoot, Sharpe and Ayton. I wouldn't hate the Nets making a play for Jrue

[vincecarter4pres]

Ayton fits Portland's team much better than Herro. He's better and plays a position of need. They can recoup at least one pick by moving Holiday to make up for the extra pick they could have gotten from Miami.

They likely move Jrue, but he's be a great mentor to lead Scoot, Sharpe and Ayton. I wouldn't hate the Nets making a play for Jrue

Came back to say just this.

Portland had interest in Simmons in the past on the cheap, wouldn’t be opposed to Simmons/Philly 1st for him, that’s for sure.

Or Dinwiddie/DFS/Cam T for him.

[Netaman]

I can't see how Jrue goes for anything less than the 2 miami picks + lowry/martin (the heat need both to match the salary).

Jimmy is already freaking out they didn't get lillard. this was some grade A judo by cronin. miami and toronto are both great fits for Jrue, i think he's going to get 2 more unprotected picks. or maybe OG for Jrue with smaller pieces.

https://deadspin.com/jimmy-butler-heat-damian-lillard-trade-blazers-bucks-ta-1850879918

[Netaman]

interesting looks like nets had a chance to get in on dame but didnt.

https://x.com/MarcJSpears/status/1707164584132636952?s=20

[ecuhus1981]

This was an interesting Rollercoaster, and yeah it seems we were as "in" on him as I expected.

Ultimately, I'm glad we didn't outbid Milwaukee's Best offer. The juice isn't worth the squeeze for us.

[TheNetsFan]

interesting looks like nets had a chance to get in on dame but didnt.

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Dame wouldn't have put this team over the top, and would have hamstrung future moves.

[Born_Ready]

Sucks for Jrue, imo. I hope he gets moved somewhere else. He deserves better than Portland.

[vincecarter4pres]

It was the right move to stay out of this one.

When Mitchell, Ja, Garland, etc. hit the block, then they pounce.

[Marvin Martian]

It was the right move to stay out of this one.

When Mitchell, Ja, Garland, etc. hit the block, then they pounce.

That isn't how it works. Brooklyn is not a hot FA destination. And no one is running to come and play with Bridges

Secondly, you have to look at the landscape right now. We have had 5 different champions over the past 5 years. The league is wide open. Will that still be the case in 2-3 years if Zion stays healthy, Luka enters his prime, and/or Wemby breaks out into a top 10 player?

[vincecarter4pres]

It was the right move to stay out of this one.

When Mitchell, Ja, Garland, etc. hit the block, then they pounce.

That isn't how it works. Brooklyn is not a hot FA destination. And no one is running to come and play with Bridges

Yet we are and they are.

We were literally on Dame’s short list when this all started, and once he realized last week that he probably wasn’t going to his preferred destination in Miami, we were on there again.

Players still want to be here.

Secondly, you have to look at the landscape right now. We have had 5 different champions over the past 5 years. The league is wide open. Will that still be the case in 2-3 years if Zion stays healthy, Luka enters his prime, and/or Wemby breaks out into a top 10 player?

We don’t know.

But that’s why the chosen path shouldn’t have been to spend almost every asset and bit of cap flexibility for 33 year old Dame, when to be a true contender you’d have to somehow, someway have to figure out how to acquire another player of Dame’s ilk while keeping Bridges and maybe Clax, then rebuilding depth through second round rookie scale and vet mins.

You start with a core of young stud, Bridges and Clax, while still having cap flexibility and then you’re building something sustainable.

Dame made a ton of sense for Milwaukee and Miami because they have a 2-3 year window and then they’re pretenders for awhile regardless.