GT : Nets @ Hawks 12/6

[76ciology]

Did they lockdown Thomas ?.. looking at the box and only two points 1-6 dammm good thing twinees taking over or else this could’ve been a blowout by now

Just bad shooting night. Even his floaters are rattling around the basket.

He will bounce back sooner rather than later

He’s just putting all the haters inside the bus, then he will drive it off the cliff later

[ArksNetsSince99]

Just bad shooting night. Even his floaters are rattling around the basket.

He will bounce back sooner rather than later

He’s just putting all the haters inside the bus, then he will drive it off the cliff later

[Dangun]

Did they lockdown Thomas ?.. looking at the box and only two points 1-6 dammm good thing twinees taking over or else this could’ve been a blowout by now

Just bad shooting night. Even his floaters are rattling around the basket.

Yea this one was real bad unlike Orlando .. hopefully it’s just two games shooting off like this

[Dangun]

Just bad shooting night. Even his floaters are rattling around the basket.

He will bounce back sooner rather than later

He’s just putting all the haters inside the bus, then he will drive it off the cliff later

[Marvin Martian]

Missed this game cause of the Union Christmas party, but hot damn!

Let me be clear, I have always and will continue to believe Mikal is not a real number 1. But I think these last 4 games with Cam Thomas back show how dangerous he can be when a lead scorer type style of player is next to him to take the pressure off him and let him go off in the flow of the game. And so I’ll beat the dead horse, with how well him and Mitchell would compliment each other. But I digress…

Great win. Forgot to set this to record, now set the replay to.

Bridges would do 10x better paired with a star big man than a guard. Those handoffs plays would almost impossible to stop.

Cam Thomas does not pair well with him at all. When Thomas is hot, he ignores everyone and Bridges being so unselfish, will gladly step back, which played a role in his slow start to the season.

Is Bridges a number one? We don't know. But his style resembles Kawhi Leonard, who also wasn't a true number one. But he won a title anyway because TOR had the right pieces around him. We should do the same for Bridges

[Hello Brooklyn]

Bridges seems to be back to the player he was last year.

Hoping that he can Cam continue to develop. Bridges looks like an All Star for sure.

[bubonicphoniks]

I see Din went on a chuckfest - 5-19 smh

Thats all he does really

[NetsJets]

I only saw the first half glad we got the win.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I see Din went on a chuckfest - 5-19 smh

Thats all he does really

Dinwiddie having another trash season.

Hes simply not equipped to be a starting level PG.

Simmons is a much better PG and defender. But hes just such a black hole on offense.

If there is one spot to upgrade that might be it.

Luka would be perfect for this team

[Stone]

Bridges seems to be back to the player he was last year.

Hoping that he can Cam continue to develop. Bridges looks like an All Star for sure.

He didn't look like an all star the first month of the season. It was that first game (11/22) against the Hawks that Mikal got his game back. Since then he has been playing like an all star.

We have a very streaky team, we have guys that can shoot lights out and put up a lot of points only to disappear a game or two after. One of our biggest problems is consistency.

[Marvin Martian]

Bridges seems to be back to the player he was last year.

Hoping that he can Cam continue to develop. Bridges looks like an All Star for sure.

He didn't look like an all star the first month of the season. It was that first game (11/22) against the Hawks that Mikal got his game back. Since then he has been playing like an all star.

We have a very streaky team, we have guys that can shoot lights out and put up a lot of points only to disappear a game or two after. One of our biggest problems is consistency.

We have a top 10 offense. We have been pretty consistent on that end. The bigger issues is on defense, particularly the backcourt. Din and Thomas are our best offensive players but also our worst defenders.

We need a 2 way guard, not offensive and defensive specialists

[Minnamaker]

Did they lockdown Thomas ?.. looking at the box and only two points 1-6 dammm good thing twinees taking over or else this could’ve been a blowout by now

Just bad shooting night. Even his floaters are rattling around the basket.

This was more though. He got doubled teamed a lot and played it aweful. I think it's nice to see teams centering their defense around him, but his lack of playmaking ability was on full display here. He is clearly not ready for double teams, but it will be interesting to see if he can improve. He needs to pass better though. Needs to recognize the double team earlier and adjust (passing or driving earlier). I'm not mad at all for his bad game though. Good learning experience.

[Netaman]

another high quality road win. this team just continues exceeding expectations. i really cant relate to the complaints. that was one of the best clutch time shots i've seen from a net other than kd. is dinwiddie perfect? no way. but he is providing depth they need with simmons out (and walker, and cam for the few weeks) and made some key plays and got to the paint in winning time when they needed it a few times.

definitely a lot that can be cleaned up but considering the injuries this team just keeps producing where it matters. dennis smith was a heck of a pick up.

adding mitchell to the core group of bridges/cam j/claxton would be really interesting.

[Decipher]

Team is fun to watch and plays hard most of the time

Many other fanbases have it worse

[ChuckS]

I see Din went on a chuckfest - 5-19 smh

Thats all he does really

I'll admit that I'm really into efficiency. And I cannot say what happened to Spencer's from the 45/40% he had with the Mavs. I wondered why I still love the guy, until remembering that Iverson won a scoring title at 39%. So maybe there are redeeming values. I think this game proves that there are.

I hope my numbers are right, because they are scribbled on a two inch note. But Spencer was one for twelve with 2 points after three quarters. He came back in the game at about the seven minute mark of the 4th, and was four for seven (with one three) and eleven points (9 of those from the 3:46 mark). At the 2:44 mark he made a driving two pointer and six seconds later blocked Saddiq Bey's layup. At 2:19 he made a three pointer. With 32 seconds left he made an unbelievable pass to Mikal for a layup. With 24 seconds left he grabbed a rebound, was fouled, and made 1 of 2. Mikal's jumper won it after Young's 3 pointer.

I believe Spencer does more than "chuck it", and often when it most counts. I think the confidence in him demonstrated by Coach and teammates speaks to that. But I decided to google the analysts rating starting point guards. Spencer's rating dropped from about 15th best to in the twenties since he came here, many mentioning the efficiency thing but otherwise being pretty effusive. I cannot find the one detailing how much better we were when he is on the floor, but I suspect those less internet challenged can do so. The "HoopsHype" summary was generally reflective, and a portion follows:

"Veteran floor general Spencer Dinwiddie had a solid bounce-back campaign last season, staying healthy (he played in 79 of the season’s 82 games) and providing both the Dallas Mavericks and Brooklyn Nets with good scoring and playmaking, albeit the former was lacking some in efficiency. Regardless, you know what you’re getting in Dinwiddie – a lead guard with elite size, solid off-the-dribble scoring from the midrange, some three-point prowess, versatile defense and good vision."

[bubonicphoniks]

I see Din went on a chuckfest - 5-19 smh

Thats all he does really

I'll admit that I'm really into efficiency. And I cannot say what happened to Spencer's from the 45/40% he had with the Mavs. I wondered why I still love the guy, until remembering that Iverson won a scoring title at 39%. So maybe there are redeeming values. I think this game proves that there are.

I hope my numbers are right, because they are scribbled on a two inch note. But Spencer was one for twelve with 2 points after three quarters. He came back in the game at about the seven minute mark of the 4th, and was four for seven (with one three) and eleven points (9 of those from the 3:46 mark). At the 2:44 mark he made a driving two pointer and six seconds later blocked Saddiq Bey's layup. At 2:19 he made a three pointer. With 32 seconds left he made an unbelievable pass to Mikal for a layup. With 24 seconds left he grabbed a rebound, was fouled, and made 1 of 2. Mikal's jumper won it after Young's 3 pointer.

I believe Spencer does more than "chuck it", and often when it most counts. I think the confidence in him demonstrated by Coach and teammates speaks to that. But I decided to google the analysts rating starting point guards. Spencer's rating dropped from about 15th best to in the twenties since he came here, many mentioning the efficiency thing but otherwise being pretty effusive. I cannot find the one detailing how much better we were when he is on the floor, but I suspect those less internet challenged can do so. The "HoopsHype" summary was generally reflective, and a portion follows:

"Veteran floor general Spencer Dinwiddie had a solid bounce-back campaign last season, staying healthy (he played in 79 of the season’s 82 games) and providing both the Dallas Mavericks and Brooklyn Nets with good scoring and playmaking, albeit the former was lacking some in efficiency. Regardless, you know what you’re getting in Dinwiddie – a lead guard with elite size, solid off-the-dribble scoring from the midrange, some three-point prowess, versatile defense and good vision."

Great post. Spencer has done some good things dont get me wrong. Last year in crunch time he lost a bunch of games.

I just think this team flows better wothout him. Guys work for good shots except him. Hes flat out just a chucker. I liked when his minutes were cut.

[ChuckS]

Thats all he does really

I'll admit that I'm really into efficiency. And I cannot say what happened to Spencer's from the 45/40% he had with the Mavs. I wondered why I still love the guy, until remembering that Iverson won a scoring title at 39%. So maybe there are redeeming values. I think this game proves that there are.

I hope my numbers are right, because they are scribbled on a two inch note. But Spencer was one for twelve with 2 points after three quarters. He came back in the game at about the seven minute mark of the 4th, and was four for seven (with one three) and eleven points (9 of those from the 3:46 mark). At the 2:44 mark he made a driving two pointer and six seconds later blocked Saddiq Bey's layup. At 2:19 he made a three pointer. With 32 seconds left he made an unbelievable pass to Mikal for a layup. With 24 seconds left he grabbed a rebound, was fouled, and made 1 of 2. Mikal's jumper won it after Young's 3 pointer.

I believe Spencer does more than "chuck it", and often when it most counts. I think the confidence in him demonstrated by Coach and teammates speaks to that. But I decided to google the analysts rating starting point guards. Spencer's rating dropped from about 15th best to in the twenties since he came here, many mentioning the efficiency thing but otherwise being pretty effusive. I cannot find the one detailing how much better we were when he is on the floor, but I suspect those less internet challenged can do so. The "HoopsHype" summary was generally reflective, and a portion follows:

"Veteran floor general Spencer Dinwiddie had a solid bounce-back campaign last season, staying healthy (he played in 79 of the season’s 82 games) and providing both the Dallas Mavericks and Brooklyn Nets with good scoring and playmaking, albeit the former was lacking some in efficiency. Regardless, you know what you’re getting in Dinwiddie – a lead guard with elite size, solid off-the-dribble scoring from the midrange, some three-point prowess, versatile defense and good vision."

Great post. Spencer has done some good things dont get me wrong. Last year in crunch time he lost a bunch of games.

I just think this team flows better wothout him. Guys work for good shots except him. Hes flat out just a chucker. I liked when his minutes were cut.

Thanks for the props. I disagree, however with all your premises.

He is fifth on the team with a 20.2 useage rate and third on the team with 12 field goal attempts per game. These are hardly indicative of a chucker who upsets the flow of a game. He is averaging 6.2 assists (9.1 last year), second to Ben's 6.7, which further belies the allegations.

I disagreed, also, with the claim that last year he lost a bunch of games, primarily because his minutes slightly exceeded even Mikal's, suggesting that the coaching staff couldn't have believed that either. 82games.com has him with far and away the highest on/off court plus of 17.2 on the team which confirms my doubts that he could possibly be the prime cause for losses.

I realize every player has bad games, but I, personally, attribute losses to the team. I did not recall feeling Spencer was particularly responsible for losses last year so I checked a bad stretch for the team, it's last ten games of 22-23. We lost six of them. In the last game, against the Sixers, he had a dnp rest, in a 29 point loss. In a loss to the TWolves he was high man going 13 for 24 for 30 points, and second only to Bridges in minutes and plus/minus. In one loss to the Cavs he had the best plus minus and his 25 points were second only to Mikal. In another loss to the Cavs he had the most points (19) and was the only plus. The other two losses I particularly attribute to the team. In the 13 point loss to the Magic, a back to back, everyone stunk but Mikal. In the second of these he only had 8 points on 3 for 6, but 11 assists, and every starter had a negative plus minus. I cannot categorically say you are wrong about last year, because I do not know the games to which you are alluding. I can say that I believe he and Mikal were most responsible for whatever success we did achieve after the loss of KD and Kyrie.

[bubonicphoniks]

I'll admit that I'm really into efficiency. And I cannot say what happened to Spencer's from the 45/40% he had with the Mavs. I wondered why I still love the guy, until remembering that Iverson won a scoring title at 39%. So maybe there are redeeming values. I think this game proves that there are.

I hope my numbers are right, because they are scribbled on a two inch note. But Spencer was one for twelve with 2 points after three quarters. He came back in the game at about the seven minute mark of the 4th, and was four for seven (with one three) and eleven points (9 of those from the 3:46 mark). At the 2:44 mark he made a driving two pointer and six seconds later blocked Saddiq Bey's layup. At 2:19 he made a three pointer. With 32 seconds left he made an unbelievable pass to Mikal for a layup. With 24 seconds left he grabbed a rebound, was fouled, and made 1 of 2. Mikal's jumper won it after Young's 3 pointer.

I believe Spencer does more than "chuck it", and often when it most counts. I think the confidence in him demonstrated by Coach and teammates speaks to that. But I decided to google the analysts rating starting point guards. Spencer's rating dropped from about 15th best to in the twenties since he came here, many mentioning the efficiency thing but otherwise being pretty effusive. I cannot find the one detailing how much better we were when he is on the floor, but I suspect those less internet challenged can do so. The "HoopsHype" summary was generally reflective, and a portion follows:

"Veteran floor general Spencer Dinwiddie had a solid bounce-back campaign last season, staying healthy (he played in 79 of the season’s 82 games) and providing both the Dallas Mavericks and Brooklyn Nets with good scoring and playmaking, albeit the former was lacking some in efficiency. Regardless, you know what you’re getting in Dinwiddie – a lead guard with elite size, solid off-the-dribble scoring from the midrange, some three-point prowess, versatile defense and good vision."

Great post. Spencer has done some good things dont get me wrong. Last year in crunch time he lost a bunch of games.

I just think this team flows better wothout him. Guys work for good shots except him. Hes flat out just a chucker. I liked when his minutes were cut.

Thanks for the props. I disagree, however with all your premises.

He is fifth on the team with a 20.2 useage rate and third on the team with 12 field goal attempts per game. These are hardly indicative of a chucker who upsets the flow of a game. He is averaging 6.2 assists (9.1 last year), second to Ben's 6.7, which further belies the allegations.

I disagreed, also, with the claim that last year he lost a bunch of games, primarily because his minutes slightly exceeded even Mikal's, suggesting that the coaching staff couldn't have believed that either. 82games.com has him with far and away the highest on/off court plus of 17.2 on the team which confirms my doubts that he could possibly be the prime cause for losses.

I realize every player has bad games, but I, personally, attribute losses to the team. I did not recall feeling Spencer was particularly responsible for losses last year so I checked a bad stretch for the team, it's last ten games of 22-23. We lost six of them. In the last game, against the Sixers, he had a dnp rest, in a 29 point loss. In a loss to the TWolves he was high man going 13 for 24 for 30 points, and second only to Bridges in minutes and plus/minus. In one loss to the Cavs he had the best plus minus and his 25 points were second only to Mikal. In another loss to the Cavs he had the most points (19) and was the only plus. The other two losses I particularly attribute to the team. In the 13 point loss to the Magic, a back to back, everyone stunk but Mikal. In the second of these he only had 8 points on 3 for 6, but 11 assists, and every starter had a negative plus minus. I cannot categorically say you are wrong about last year, because I do not know the games to which you are alluding. I can say that I believe he and Mikal were most responsible for whatever success we did achieve after the loss of KD and Kyrie.

It's hard to craft a proper response on a cell phone and I have no computer access at the moment.

I feel confident I could pluck out stats which I could use to support my non-support of Spencer's game. You mention his rating but I'm not sure what that alludes to.

Spencer to me simply dribbles too much and due to his ball centric game and the fact he shoots a lot I understand he amasses a lot of stats. I just don't think his confidence matches his performance. Its odd really though the guy has quite the tool kit out there, just doesnt amount often to what I see as a good starting PG game.

[ChuckS]

Great post. Spencer has done some good things dont get me wrong. Last year in crunch time he lost a bunch of games.

I just think this team flows better wothout him. Guys work for good shots except him. Hes flat out just a chucker. I liked when his minutes were cut.

Thanks for the props. I disagree, however with all your premises.

He is fifth on the team with a 20.2 useage rate and third on the team with 12 field goal attempts per game. These are hardly indicative of a chucker who upsets the flow of a game. He is averaging 6.2 assists (9.1 last year), second to Ben's 6.7, which further belies the allegations.

I disagreed, also, with the claim that last year he lost a bunch of games, primarily because his minutes slightly exceeded even Mikal's, suggesting that the coaching staff couldn't have believed that either. 82games.com has him with far and away the highest on/off court plus of 17.2 on the team which confirms my doubts that he could possibly be the prime cause for losses.

I realize every player has bad games, but I, personally, attribute losses to the team. I did not recall feeling Spencer was particularly responsible for losses last year so I checked a bad stretch for the team, it's last ten games of 22-23. We lost six of them. In the last game, against the Sixers, he had a dnp rest, in a 29 point loss. In a loss to the TWolves he was high man going 13 for 24 for 30 points, and second only to Bridges in minutes and plus/minus. In one loss to the Cavs he had the best plus minus and his 25 points were second only to Mikal. In another loss to the Cavs he had the most points (19) and was the only plus. The other two losses I particularly attribute to the team. In the 13 point loss to the Magic, a back to back, everyone stunk but Mikal. In the second of these he only had 8 points on 3 for 6, but 11 assists, and every starter had a negative plus minus. I cannot categorically say you are wrong about last year, because I do not know the games to which you are alluding. I can say that I believe he and Mikal were most responsible for whatever success we did achieve after the loss of KD and Kyrie.

It's hard to craft a proper response on a cell phone and I have no computer access at the moment.

I feel confident I could pluck out stats which I could use to support my non-support of Spencer's game. You mention his rating but I'm not sure what that alludes to.

Spencer to me simply dribbles too much and due to his ball centric game and the fact he shoots a lot I understand he amasses a lot of stats. I just don't think his confidence matches his performance. Its odd really though the guy has quite the tool kit out there, just doesnt amount often to what I see as a good starting PG game.

I actually felt bad about my last post, because you are one of "many" with a like belief and respectable arguments, which always gives me pause (unfortunately often times not enough). And believe it or not, when I finished I thought that it could be argued that he (or anyone else) actually did cost us a game or two that I mentioned.. Heck, that happened even with Durant. I believe most players actually do feel responsible after losses, so I'm loath to fault them. I rationalize that as a small part of my work responsibilities for a few years, I defended employees in the workplace. It's still somewhat ingrained and alien for me to be the accuser.

Incidentally, I think the stat you mentioned is one which attempts to measure a players plus or minus impact on a game. (Edit: Measures score changes when the player is on and off the court. i.e. In this case we are 8 points better when he is on court and 9.2 points worse when he is off.) It, too, is not universally accepted--kind of like my thinking.

I apologize. I never intend to pretend to be speaking as if ex-Cathedra, or believe that an opposing thought must be wrong. We all see the game, and players, differently on occasion. This is just another example of that tired cliche': "agreeing to disagree".

[bubonicphoniks]

Thanks for the props. I disagree, however with all your premises.

He is fifth on the team with a 20.2 useage rate and third on the team with 12 field goal attempts per game. These are hardly indicative of a chucker who upsets the flow of a game. He is averaging 6.2 assists (9.1 last year), second to Ben's 6.7, which further belies the allegations.

I disagreed, also, with the claim that last year he lost a bunch of games, primarily because his minutes slightly exceeded even Mikal's, suggesting that the coaching staff couldn't have believed that either. 82games.com has him with far and away the highest on/off court plus of 17.2 on the team which confirms my doubts that he could possibly be the prime cause for losses.

I realize every player has bad games, but I, personally, attribute losses to the team. I did not recall feeling Spencer was particularly responsible for losses last year so I checked a bad stretch for the team, it's last ten games of 22-23. We lost six of them. In the last game, against the Sixers, he had a dnp rest, in a 29 point loss. In a loss to the TWolves he was high man going 13 for 24 for 30 points, and second only to Bridges in minutes and plus/minus. In one loss to the Cavs he had the best plus minus and his 25 points were second only to Mikal. In another loss to the Cavs he had the most points (19) and was the only plus. The other two losses I particularly attribute to the team. In the 13 point loss to the Magic, a back to back, everyone stunk but Mikal. In the second of these he only had 8 points on 3 for 6, but 11 assists, and every starter had a negative plus minus. I cannot categorically say you are wrong about last year, because I do not know the games to which you are alluding. I can say that I believe he and Mikal were most responsible for whatever success we did achieve after the loss of KD and Kyrie.

It's hard to craft a proper response on a cell phone and I have no computer access at the moment.

I feel confident I could pluck out stats which I could use to support my non-support of Spencer's game. You mention his rating but I'm not sure what that alludes to.

Spencer to me simply dribbles too much and due to his ball centric game and the fact he shoots a lot I understand he amasses a lot of stats. I just don't think his confidence matches his performance. Its odd really though the guy has quite the tool kit out there, just doesnt amount often to what I see as a good starting PG game.

I actually felt bad about my last post, because you are one of "many" with a like belief and respectable arguments, which always gives me pause (unfortunately often times not enough). And believe it or not, when I finished I thought that it could be argued that he (or anyone else) actually did cost us a game or two that I mentioned.. Heck, that happened even with Durant. I believe most players actually do feel responsible after losses, so I'm loath to fault them. I rationalize that as a small part of my work responsibilities for a few years, I defended employees in the workplace. It's still somewhat ingrained and alien for me to be the accuser.

Incidentally, I think the stat you mentioned is one which attempts to measure a players plus or minus impact on a game. (Edit: Measures score changes when the player is on and off the court. i.e. In this case we are 8 points better when he is on court and 9.2 points worse when he is off.) It, too, is not universally accepted--kind of like my thinking.

I apologize. I never intend to pretend to be speaking as if ex-Cathedra, or believe that an opposing thought must be wrong. We all see the game, and players, differently on occasion. This is just another example of that tired cliche': "agreeing to disagree".

No. Definitely don't apologize. I enjoy other perspectives and your posts are the kind of posts this board needs.

I agree there is more to just the last shot in the game but when you take the shot you understand you are risking the negative effect of the miss or the positive effect you get from the loss. Not every player is willing and not every player has it in them. I commend Spence for taking some of those but many didnt go, so you get docked on reputation when you continute to do it. Its just how it is.

I like Spencer as a figure and like I said he's got every move you need to be a borderline star, but I think he just jas flat out tried to do too much here and I don't think I can really trust him going forward so Id rather see him gone.