IDENTITY

S.I.C. GM · Post #1 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 4:04 pm

I wanted to get some opinnions on what this teams true IDENTITY is.

I personally think nothing has changed from our Finals Team.

We are a defensive team that likes to run. As long as Kidd is here, that is what we will always be. This lose and the last 5 wins just proves it. Defense FIRST. RUN, RUN, RUN Second. Half Court Offense is and will always be Third.

Here are a few points:

1- Does VC really fit this team? I am not saying he isnt good. I am not saying he didnt help us with the 5 game winning streak (though it is questionable). The issue is that VC though above average Scorer(I am being nice here.), he is limited defensively. He consistant loses his man. Playing SG, that guy is usually the SF shooter, SG shooter/slasher, or even the quicker PG. The other issue - Is it me or have I missed something? Does VC run the break? I catch most of the games, but I cant remember VC on one wing and RJ on another in a fast break situation. Yeah Kitlles would be a straggler for the open 3, but I can remember many finishes at the basket with Kittles runnign a fast break. The only positive is that with VC we have a better half court game, but Kidd is and will never be a half court player. Can VC help this team? Yeah. Is he ideal? Nope. Can this be fixed? Yeah. VC needs to really pick up his D and needs to really be more aggressive with the breaks. This can also be fixed by Frank.

2- Everyone that wants a trade especially for JO. You need to rethink that. Like I said above, Kidd isnt a half court player. Getting JO just makes us a half court team. Everyone says JO for RJ would open up the court for VC. Yeah it would but how about Kidd. JO cant run the floor. VC is questionable running the court. Before KG got traded, everyone wanted him but the most attractive thing about him is his all around game. I can see Kidd with KG on a break but can you see JO. So we trade RJ, the only guy that truly works with Kidd right now, the young guys are getting there, for a guy that might not work. Besides his injuries, I am completely against trading for JO now.

3- Cant talk about this subject unless I bring in Frank. He is always talking about identity and he fells strongly about the Defensive aspect. But FRANK COME ON. Like i have said before, our best defensive line up right now is: DA, Kidd, RJ, Swill, Boone/Collins/Mags. I dont know why he continues to experiment with different lineups. 30+ games and Frank still doesnt have an F'N consistant rotation. The other issue is putting VC in a better situation to use his talents. Frank's lineup featuring VC needs to be tweaked. Something like DA, VC, Boki/Wright, Allen, Boone/Mags/Collins can work. Surround him with shooters, defenders and some offensive rebounders, VC will thrive. For all the VC lovers saying he doesnt get enough touches, this line up will make you happy. VC touches the ball every possession. One more thing maybe someone can answer this- Why doesnt everyone except Kidd pick and roll. If Kidd has the ball, VC,RJ, Wright and Boki should also pick and roll/pop. is there a underlining rule that it has to be the person playing the PF/C position.

Those are some things.

G_MoNeY · Post #2 » by **G_MoNeY** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:47 pm

1- Does VC really fit this team? I am not saying he isnt good. I am not saying he didnt help us with the 5 game winning streak (though it is questionable).

Yes, he does fit this team. To say it's "questionable" he helped this 5-game winning streak is absurd. He's the one that's raised his game overall and carried the load when others were struggling. VC had a bad game last night, look at the result. Everyone else was at their averages or close.

The issue is that VC though above average Scorer(I am being nice here.), he is limited defensively. He consistant loses his man.

I actually see the opposite almost. RJ is the one getting beat because of his lack of lateral quickness. He's the one allowing most of the penetration, VC has improved on his defensive game.

Does VC run the break? I catch most of the games, but I cant remember VC on one wing and RJ on another in a fast break situation.

It's happened a lot more lately. VC is usually the trailer on such a play, but there's been many occasions recently where VC has finished on the opposite wing of RJ.

The only positive is that with VC we have a better half court game

Seriously? Half-court game is the most glaring difference. What about his ability to create for players such as Boone, Williams, Nachbar? What about his ability to draw the defense to him with just his presence? What about opponents having to adjust their defense to counter his presence? What about his passing ability? What about his unselfishness? RJ needs to take some notes and find the open man when he touches the ball, the ball seems to DIE when it's in RJ's hands NOT VC

Getting JO just makes us a half court team. Everyone says JO for RJ would open up the court for VC. Yeah it would but how about Kidd. JO cant run the floor. VC is questionable running the court.

It's all about balance. JO may not run the floor, but he can trail the play and finish. Williams runs the floor, Wright runs the floor, Nachbar runs the floor. RJ is the best at it, I agree, but with JO in the lineup we have better balance offensively AND defensively. The injury issue is the only concern I have with JO, but as I've said many times, a change of scenery could do him wonders. Combining those injuries and contract issues could raise concerns, but I think a move such as this, needs to be done, to contend with the elite.

You know where I stand on Frank, no need to comment.

Antti22 · Post #3 » by **Antti22** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:54 pm

No offence but you really gotta stop that VC hating. It driving me mad here.
We are 0-8 without him, so what do we see from it? This team was lower than Toronto when we acquiered him, we did make the playoffs, didnt we?
As for his off the ball offence, sure he is not the best at it. But running the fast break is RJ-s primary job, thats where he can do it. VC runs it, but stays off the picture, as a reserve to fix it if something goes wrong.
As for defence, VC isnt that bad at it, he can do it quite nicely down the strech, comes to my mind a game where he had like 6 steals or so. And most of the times he isnt on the other teams top scorer so he is supposed to help out on others...
VC is also our best clutch player and as we cant blow anyone out, he has been most important player to win those games by 5p or less.

Ive been reading this forum from before the season started and you have gotten me on the limit. So i shall say that lets trade VC then, just to let you see whats left of us then....

S.I.C. GM · Post #4 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:10 pm

Antti22 wrote: No offence but you really gotta stop that VC hating. It driving me mad here.
We are 0-8 without him, so what do we see from it? This team was lower than Toronto when we acquiered him, we did make the playoffs, didnt we?
As for his off the ball offence, sure he is not the best at it. But running the fast break is RJ-s primary job, thats where he can do it. VC runs it, but stays off the picture, as a reserve to fix it if something goes wrong.
As for defence, VC isnt that bad at it, he can do it quite nicely down the strech, comes to my mind a game where he had like 6 steals or so. And most of the times he isnt on the other teams top scorer so he is supposed to help out on others...
VC is also our best clutch player and as we cant blow anyone out, he has been most important player to win those games by 5p or less.

Ive been reading this forum from before the season started and you have gotten me on the limit. So i shall say that lets trade VC then, just to let you see whats left of us then....

Actually I have been really good this year.

Antti22 · Post #5 » by **Antti22** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:44 pm

But still your support for this team seems to be about the same as Jason Collins

S.I.C. GM · Post #6 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:09 pm

Antti22 wrote: But still your support for this team seems to be about the same as Jason Collins

SIC