From TNT: Mavs interested with Kidd

[jeff1624]

^^ So the list of PG's better than kidd grows each passing day to the point that even harris is ''officially'' better...ok.. LOL

[JES12]

^^ So the list of PG's better than kidd grows each passing day to the point that even harris is ''officially'' better...ok.. LOL

Apparently you can't read.

My entire post was about him saying Harris has proven nothing. Kidd would not make us any better contenders than Harris; he would just make 1) older 2) better to those whe see the name on the back of the jersey only 3) pay out the ass in luxury tax.

But if you want to get into the specifics, Devin is the better FG shooter, better 3pt shooter, better ft shooter, better stealer, better scorer all together and turns the ball over less than Kidd.

Kidd is the better rebounder (which would go way down with the rebounders in Dallas...but still be better than Harris in that catagory) and the better passer.

Since Jason Terry would still be our backup PG, I will reduce Kidd's minutes to the amount of minutes Harris is afforded (30.8 ).

..................Harris........Kidd
PPG..............14.6...>....9.3
RPG..............2.4.....<...6.9
APG..............5.4.....<...8.6
SPG..............1.5.....>...1.3
BPG..............0.1.....<...0.2
FG%.............48.2...>...36.7
3pt%............36.2...>...33.8
FT%.............82.4...>...81.3
TO...............2.37...>...3.12

No to mention that Harris draws 3 times as many fouls from his speedy penetration on offense and his great ability to stay in front of the opposing PG on defense (as opposed to Kidd who lets them drive by him) leading the opposing PG to get into foul trouble early.

I'd rather take my chances with Harris.

[jeff1624]

Shooting %

Harris

FG% 48.2 .... 4.9-10.1
3FG% 36.2 .... 0.7-1.8
FT% 82.4 .... 4.2-5.1

Kidd% 36.7 .... 4.0-10.8
3FG% 34.0 ... 1.6-4.6
FT% 81.3 ... 1.9-2.3

so on FG% he scores 0.9 in 0.7 less shots WOW...Now Thats a game changer

3FG% for his career Devin harris has a whopping 32.5% so i wouldn't necessarily point it out as an advantage...

And that 0.9% in freethrows is clearly SUPERIOR ,,,:rolleyes:

Kidd averages 2 stls a game, harris 1.5 so he isnt the better ''stealer'' And kidds Assist per Turnover ratio is 2.75 while harris is 2.225 so I really dont get where you got your numbers from...

And if you're really saying that harris is better than kidd.... I feel sorry for you...

[FGump]

The question isnt really who is better in the past or at the moment. It's whether a year or two of Kidd - at whatever level he is now - is worth giving up 10 years of Harris for, whatever he is and will become.

If there was a SIGNIFICANT gap right now, I imagine the Mavs would be quite interested. But while Kidd is the better floor general, there's no question that Harris does provide a few things that Kidd doesn't, and there's no question that in a year or two Harris will be the better player just because Kidd is getting up there in years.

[JES12]

Shooting %

Harris

FG% 48.2 .... 4.9-10.1
3FG% 36.2 .... 0.7-1.8
FT% 82.4 .... 4.2-5.1

Kidd% 36.7 .... 4.0-10.8
3FG% 34.0 ... 1.6-4.6
FT% 81.3 ... 1.9-2.3

so on FG% he scores 0.9 in 0.7 less shots WOW...Now Thats a game changer

3FG% for his career Devin harris has a whopping 32.5% so i wouldn't necessarily point it out as an advantage...

And that 0.9% in freethrows is clearly SUPERIOR ,,,:rolleyes:

Kidd averages 2 stls a game, harris 1.5 so he isnt the better ''stealer'' And kidds Assist per Turnover ratio is 2.75 while harris is 2.225 so I really dont get where you got your numbers from...

And if you're really saying that harris is better than kidd.... I feel sorry for you...

BAMM

Read my last edit

And that bolded stament is just plain stupid. Harris gets 1.5 in 31 min and Kidd gets 1.6 in 38 min.

[jeff1624]

IMO the mavericks window is closing. We have up and coming teams that are going to be forces in the next year or so (hornets, blazers, lakers) and we're still going to have a few others who are championsip contenders (spurs, Suns) it'd be in the mavericks best interest to try and win it all now. With J Kidd they have a better shot of doing that..and while devin harris is a nice player and all, he's no franchise player...

[JES12]

With J Kidd they have a better shot of doing that..and while devin harris is a nice player and all, he's no franchise player...

Maybe, but 37% opf the Mav fans thinks he is our franchise player this year.

[FGump]

Mavs dont think their window is closing, and I tend to agree. So there are not going to be any panic moves made to give up the farm for an aging Kidd.

If there was a HUGE gap? I could see it happening then. But from both what they say and also whats happening on the court, the Mavs may think Harris will be the better option THIS YEAR, in light of the rest of their team and what they need the most.

[Black Jesus 1]

Meh. I don't take Dallas as serious with Kidd, IMO.

Harris is a huge piece to that team, a bigger threat from outside(shooting) and attacking the basket. I don't think they need someone who can dish the ball around, when that isn't their problem.
From watching them, their problem is they don't have someone who can score down low consistently and don't have many aggressors, Harris is one of the few(aggressors) they have, and he is one hell of a finisher and energy kid with good defense.

If I were Dallas, I wouldn't trade Harris either.

[Tommy Udo 6]

There were articles by Chicago beat writers that Bulls are interested in Kidd. Deals would involve Ben wallace (necessary for salary matching) & NJ's choice of Duhon, Gordon or Hinrich for Kidd & filler (depending on guard who NJ wants).

However, word that Kidd only wants to go to a contender would eliminate the Bulls - who arent close to contending for a title.

Lately, I've read no Kidd talk since Dallas & LAL seem to be the teams most likely to get him if he is dealt

[Jordan45822]

Thorn won't trade Kidd. He'll end up revisiting JO, Gasol, or others who can help Kidd. Trading Kidd will be a last resort. But if he is I would say Dallas or LA will get him.

[FGump]

Thorn won't trade Kidd. He'll end up revisiting JO, Gasol, or others who can help Kidd. Trading Kidd will be a last resort.

But if he is I would say Dallas or LA will get him.

Lately, I've read no Kidd talk since Dallas & LAL seem to be the teams most likely to get him if he is dealt

Though the media keep putting the Mavs name out there, that's probably all coming from NJ's end to stir up interest.

The Mavs have stated explicitly they aren't interested, and as much as Kidd would add something, between the salary he costs, the difficulty it would be to figure out how other players fit if he's added, the trade costs in talent, and the way things are going in Dallas, it looks like they are telling the truth.

So if CHI or someone else wants him, don't expect Dallas to be in the way of their bidding. The Mavs are not a likely destination for him.

[Tommy Udo 6]

-= original quote snipped =-



Though the media keep putting the Mavs name out there, that's probably all coming from NJ's end to stir up interest.

The Mavs have stated explicitly they aren't interested, and as much as Kidd would add something, between the salary he costs, the difficulty it would be to figure out how other players fit if he's added, the trade costs in talent, and the way things are going in Dallas, it looks like they are telling the truth.

So if CHI or someone else wants him, don't expect Dallas to be in the way of their bidding. The Mavs are not a likely destination for him.

Upon reflection. you are probably right.

However, if the "contender" thing is legit, Kidd may have problems agreeing to go to Bulls. NJ & Chic have apparently been talking about deals (whether Kidd is involved is unclear) per numerous articles.

[FGump]

There are so many conflicting parties pulling in their own directions here. Kidd may want to be traded - but can he DEMAND a trade? Nope. The Nets don't have to give in, but do they want an unhappy team leader? But then on the other hand, they sure don't want to give him away for nothing. And if you're an outside team, what do you offer?

And once you put all that together, its hard to see how an already-contending team can (or would) compile enough contracts, plus make sure there is enough talent in the deal to satisfy NJ, and not rip apart the fabric of what they already have. It's a tough tough situation.

[JKiddy]

In the end this sums it up pretty fairly:

One player is one of the all-time best leaders in all of sports.

The other is a very solid young player.

One player almost averages a triple double.

The other puts up some really nice all around numbers but nothing exceptional.

One player would bring a championship to Dallas.

The other is a nice piece to the puzzle but does not bring all the intangibles of the other. On and off the court leadership are imperative. They might win something if they add another really solid piece but that's a HUGE QUESTION.

There is no way Dallas gets one of the top 10 players in the league without giving up a nice young player in return. Terry, George, etc are worthless to the Nets. You might as well not insult them with such crap.

[FGump]

There is no way Dallas gets one of the top 10 players in the league without giving up a nice young player in return. Terry, George, etc are worthless to the Nets. You might as well not insult them with such an offer.

I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your post (that Kidd would definitely bring a title to Dallas and Harris wouldn't). The Mavs style is built around a SCORING point guard, and while Kidd is good at SOME things, Harris is far more effective in that role than Kidd.

But I do agree with the last part. Some team will have to give up a nice young player to get Kidd, or he isn't getting traded. The Nets will demand more for Kidd than Terry/George (or something of that ilk) and they arent being unreasonable to ask for that.

I just don't think Dallas will (or should) be the team to make that offer.

[JES12]

I agree with everything FGump stated in this thread.

Kidd will get a better trade than Terry/George, but he will not get Harris even if that means breaking Kidd to Dallas discussions.

Also, I'm not sure Kidd is a top 10 player in this league anymore, but he has had a wonderful career. The problem is, we are not trading for what he has done in the past; we are trading for this year (which Harris gives us just as big of a chance to win a title) and the the future (which Harris gives us a better chance).

If we trade Harris now, we will look back 10 year from now trying to figure out how to get him back as one of the biggest trade blunders in Mavs history (next to Kidd many years ago).

Also, if we trade Harris for Kidd now, we would have to win it all this year or next. What if we lose to the Suns? Spurs? Lakers? Well, with Harris, we can still say we are in contention next year. Not really sure I can say that with Kidd.

[jerseyjac]

The question isnt really who is better in the past or at the moment. It's whether a year or two of Kidd - at whatever level he is now - is worth giving up 10 years of Harris for, whatever he is and will become.

If there was a SIGNIFICANT gap right now, I imagine the Mavs would be quite interested. But while Kidd is the better floor general, there's no question that Harris does provide a few things that Kidd doesn't, and there's no question that in a year or two Harris will be the better player just because Kidd is getting up there in years.

I agree it seems like a sensible trade...I dunno if I pull he trigger, but the logic is obviously there...Harris has the talent, and as full time pg on a team like NJ, I can see him excelling here...

but the as for the terry, stackhouse, ect...thats garbage...

[shrink]

I just wanted to point out that Jason Kidd costs almost $20 million dollars. Max deals these days like LeBron start at $13 mil.

If DAL traded Devin Harris $4 mil, and made up the rest with a KVH addition, they just added $16 mil in salary -- and they are already over the lux.

If you're Dallas, do you think Jason Kidd worth giving up the young Devin Harris, and paying $36 mil a year for?