RealGM

Gravy wrote:How many teams play their 14th and 15th guy major minutes? If the Celtics need to rely on JD Davison and Jordan Walsh they would be in trouble too.

cgf wrote:

Gravy wrote:How many teams play their 14th and 15th guy major minutes? If the Celtics need to rely on JD Davison and Jordan Walsh they would be in trouble too.

You're not wrong...but Cleveland did just go on an absolute tear without two of their top 3/4 players. So it would be disingenuous for us to just throw up our hands and ignore our record without two of our top 3/4. I'm not exactly worried about it, especially not losses like last night, but we do need to keep stacking wins even without our starting front court.

Especially since it's not guarantee that we'll actually "get healthy" before the playoffs. It's totally possible that Mitch suffers a setback and when Julius starts gearing up to start playing again, they'll realize that he does need surgery. Meaning we could well enter the playoffs with a rotation that looks something like:

Brunson
Anunoby
Hart
Hartenstein
DiVincenzo
Achiuwa
Bogdanovic
Burks
McBride
(Sims)

seren wrote:The deal has been pretty bad for us so far. Seems like we pretty much gave away Grimes for nothing. I hope we just cut our losses in the summer and don’t extend these guys. Bojan can’t stay in front of anyone and he looks way too selfish on offense. Burks is simply horrible.

sol537 wrote:IHart / Mitch
Randle / Precious
OG / Bogs
DDV / Hart
Brunson

9-man rotation is possible in the playoffs. I imagine Burks gets benched and McBride is situational. Mitch or Precious may even get squeezed a bit for an 8-man rotation.

sol537 wrote:

seren wrote:The deal has been pretty bad for us so far. Seems like we pretty much gave away Grimes for nothing. I hope we just cut our losses in the summer and don’t extend these guys. Bojan can’t stay in front of anyone and he looks way too selfish on offense. Burks is simply horrible.

Burks was a kick the tires throw in. Bogs has 1 more year at around 20m to be used as a trade booster. We just gotta get Bogs’ value up by playing him with more of our starters so he can shine off catch and shoot plays like he did against Philly. The guy is a truly elite shooter.

JayTWill wrote:

sol537 wrote:

seren wrote:The deal has been pretty bad for us so far. Seems like we pretty much gave away Grimes for nothing. I hope we just cut our losses in the summer and don’t extend these guys. Bojan can’t stay in front of anyone and he looks way too selfish on offense. Burks is simply horrible.

Burks was a kick the tires throw in. Bogs has 1 more year at around 20m to be used as a trade booster. We just gotta get Bogs’ value up by playing him with more of our starters so he can shine off catch and shoot plays like he did against Philly. The guy is a truly elite shooter.

Question... If Bogs needs to be a catch and shoot guy next to the starters in order to shine is he so much better in that role than Grimes would be that it offsets the loss on defense? I'm hoping they did not bring him in simply for that role. Many people seemed to be excited for the added scoring punch he would give the bench.

Lets say the Knicks traded for another expiring contract instead of Bojan without giving up any value such as Bagley and Shamet. Which is a better expiring package in a trade? Bojan or Bagley, Shamet and Grimes? I assume the trade would be for a win-now player which might mean the other team may be resetting or completely rebuilding.

robillionaire wrote:But anyway when the playoffs come thibs will be playing starters big minutes especially Brunson who will probably play 43mpg so the battle over the 5 mins of scraps to relieve him probably wont be that significant

JayTWill wrote:

sol537 wrote:

seren wrote:The deal has been pretty bad for us so far. Seems like we pretty much gave away Grimes for nothing. I hope we just cut our losses in the summer and don’t extend these guys. Bojan can’t stay in front of anyone and he looks way too selfish on offense. Burks is simply horrible.

Burks was a kick the tires throw in. Bogs has 1 more year at around 20m to be used as a trade booster. We just gotta get Bogs’ value up by playing him with more of our starters so he can shine off catch and shoot plays like he did against Philly. The guy is a truly elite shooter.

Question... If Bogs needs to be a catch and shoot guy next to the starters in order to shine is he so much better in that role than Grimes would be that it offsets the loss on defense? I'm hoping they did not bring him in simply for that role. Many people seemed to be excited for the added scoring punch he would give the bench.

Lets say the Knicks traded for another expiring contract instead of Bojan without giving up any value such as Bagley and Shamet. Which is a better expiring package in a trade? Bojan or Bagley, Shamet and Grimes? I assume the trade would be for a win-now player which might mean the other team may be resetting or completely rebuilding.

thebuzzardman wrote:Brunson/Deuce/Burks
Donte/Hart/Burks
OG/Hart
Randle/ Precious or Bogs
iShart/Mitch Precious

If Knicks are fully healthy, either Precious or Bogs isn't playing much, especially in the playoffs.

dakomish23 wrote:Stats since the trade no context

Bojan - 4 games
46.5% on 10.8 FGA
47.6% on 5.3 3PA
60.0% on 2.5 FTA
2.4 RPG 0.3 APG

Burks - 5 games
33.3% on 10.8 FGA
34.5% on 5.8 3PA
72.7% on 2.2 FTA
2.0 RPG 0.8 APG

Knicksfan1992 wrote:Remember how bad Precious was his first 5 games under Thibs...

Give these guys some time to settle in, especially Bojan. These guys were nailed in 30+ mpg guys on a bad team getting to touch the ball more often and playing in a lot of low leverage situations. To go from that to playing in high leverage situations night in and night out after moving in the middle of the season is a tough adjustment for anyone to make.

So many times people just look at numbers and make judgments without taking in context. We know what they can do when healthy.

Burks is a great catch and shoot guy and even has a little creation ability when he's got it going.

Bojan is a proven scorer and shooter even in the playoffs. Guy has the ability to get 20-25 consistently on good efficiency.

Judging them off of 5 games without a fully healthy roster and coming from a losing situation is silly. This is why you have the regular season. Work some kinks out so when the playoffs come these guys are ready.

seren wrote:

JayTWill wrote:

sol537 wrote:
Burks was a kick the tires throw in. Bogs has 1 more year at around 20m to be used as a trade booster. We just gotta get Bogs’ value up by playing him with more of our starters so he can shine off catch and shoot plays like he did against Philly. The guy is a truly elite shooter.

Question... If Bogs needs to be a catch and shoot guy next to the starters in order to shine is he so much better in that role than Grimes would be that it offsets the loss on defense? I'm hoping they did not bring him in simply for that role. Many people seemed to be excited for the added scoring punch he would give the bench.

Lets say the Knicks traded for another expiring contract instead of Bojan without giving up any value such as Bagley and Shamet. Which is a better expiring package in a trade? Bojan or Bagley, Shamet and Grimes? I assume the trade would be for a win-now player which might mean the other team may be resetting or completely rebuilding.

We didn't have to trade for a next year expiring. Fournier already was that player. From the way Burks/Bojan played so far, Grimes/Fournier would have given as much if not more contribution this season.

JayTWill wrote:

seren wrote:

JayTWill wrote:
Question... If Bogs needs to be a catch and shoot guy next to the starters in order to shine is he so much better in that role than Grimes would be that it offsets the loss on defense? I'm hoping they did not bring him in simply for that role. Many people seemed to be excited for the added scoring punch he would give the bench.

Lets say the Knicks traded for another expiring contract instead of Bojan without giving up any value such as Bagley and Shamet. Which is a better expiring package in a trade? Bojan or Bagley, Shamet and Grimes? I assume the trade would be for a win-now player which might mean the other team may be resetting or completely rebuilding.

We didn't have to trade for a next year expiring. Fournier already was that player. From the way Burks/Bojan played so far, Grimes/Fournier would have given as much if not more contribution this season.

Yeah but that would have required holding Fournier hostage for another year since Thibs refused to play him so I can understand moving him for another contract that could be traded next year.

Knicksfan1992 wrote:

JayTWill wrote:

seren wrote:
We didn't have to trade for a next year expiring. Fournier already was that player. From the way Burks/Bojan played so far, Grimes/Fournier would have given as much if not more contribution this season.

Yeah but that would have required holding Fournier hostage for another year since Thibs refused to play him so I can understand moving him for another contract that could be traded next year.

Bojan has also been a better player than Fournier for most of their careers. He definitely has more resale value than Fournier ever did IMO

JayTWill wrote:Obviously it is too early to make a judgement about this trade and all players involved have their strengths and weaknesses. It will take time for everyone to become comfortable and find their roles. I'm just trying to understand what people in favor of this trade envisioned for Bojan and Burks.

I thought part of the appeal of Bojan was his natural scoring ability and the fact that he scored 20+ points on great efficiency in Detroit. I assumed people thought he could carry a large scoring role but now I see people saying we need to wait until we have a full roster before we can really see what he is capable of. In Detroit he was not surrounded by a ton of highly skilled players so shouldn't his scoring abilities be able to translate to the Knicks despite all of their injuries? Now people are talking about him as a catch and shoot guy playing off of Brunson and Randle but that was not a problem the team had after the OG trade.

I shouldn't sit here and continuously complain about the trade. What's done is done but there were a couple things I was hoping would be positives of this trade. I was hoping Burks and Bojan could outplay opposing team's bench units without Brunson. So far that has not happened. I was also hoping their addition would reduce everyone's minutes under 40. That has not happened either.

It's still early but it is worth monitoring that Bojan's minutes have gone from the low 30's in the first game to the mid 20's to the teens in the last game. Maybe they are trying to keep him healthy after an injury. Maybe his minutes are matchup dependent. Maybe Thibs has not liked what he has seen. I don't know but as a veteran front court player on a team with their entire starting front court out and iHart playing limited minutes you would think he would be needed to play now more than ever. If his minutes are low now what will happen when Thibs actually has other options?